Australian Politics Forum - A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law

Jasin Gold Member Online Posts: 56050 Gender:	Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law Reply #15 - Jul 19^th, 2025 at 3:15pm This explains why Mimo and Gwoggy are not rich.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law
Reply #16 - Jul 19^th, 2025 at 5:25pm

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 2:56pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 2:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 2:22pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 2:20pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 2:19pm:

Quote:

That doesn't change the fact that penalty rates and overtime are two completely different things.

Duh. Now, back to my original point:

So the unions oppose 99% of employees getting a raise because the 1% who are best at milking the current system won't get as much bonus overtime?

The unions are good at putting a positive spin on screwing over everyone else, in particular the unemployed. But in this case they are screwing over their own members.

This is about penalty rates, not overtime.

You are confused Greg. What makes you think that getting a penalty rate for doing overtime has nothing to do with doing overtime? Are you just confused by the fact that they used a different word?

Someone is confused alright.

"Here’s something that may surprise you. Penalty rates and overtime are NOT the same thing.

"Using these terms interchangeably is quite common, but incorrect.

"Unsurprisingly, getting pay right can be a confusing task – and it is one of the most important things legal and HR MUST get right."

I am not using them interchangeably Greg. That is just you getting yourself confused, yet again. But You could if you wanted to, and you would get the same conclusion - the unions are trying to put a positive spin on screwing over their own members.

Can you tell the difference between two words having a different meaning, and them having nothing to do with each other? Do you still think that getting penalty rates for doing overtime has nothing to do with doing overtime? I realise that you have John Smith cheering you on here, but I suggest whenever you see that happen it is because you are saying something stupid.

The unions oppose 99% of employees getting a raise because the 1% who are best at milking the current system won't get as much bonus overtime?

The article is about penalty rates, not overtime.

You don't get penalty rates for doing overtime - you get overtime rates.

Penalty rates are paid for working weekends, late nights, Public Holidays, etc.

Penalty rates and overtime rates are not the same thing.

You are very, very confused.

"Penalty rates and overtime are distinct concepts related to employee pay.

"Penalty rates compensate employees for working unsociable hours, while overtime is paid for hours worked beyond the standard hours defined in an employee's contract or award."

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freediver

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Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law
Reply #17 - Jul 19^th, 2025 at 9:30pm

Quote:

You don't get penalty rates for doing overtime - you get overtime rates.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay-and-wages/penalty-rates-allowances-and-other-payments/penalty-rates

Quote:

Employees may be entitled to a penalty rate when working:

weekends
public holidays
overtime
late nights shifts or
early morning shifts.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jasin Gold Member Online Posts: 56050 Gender:	Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law Reply #18 - Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:02pm Overtime is a penalty rate.
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Dnarever

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Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law
Reply #19 - Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:06pm

whiteknight wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 11:37am:

cannot have penalty rates reduced in return for a higher rate of base pay if it leaves a single worker worse off.

This makes zero difference. All employees are worse off by default. The is a great deal for management and assists in removing penalty rates.

Fact is that the strategy is to offer increases in exchange for taking away penalty rates. It doesn't matter if it is compensated adequately. The employer then over time erodes any and all over award payments. That is any pay increase from a negotiation will ever become the award rate is is all over award. No over award payment is protected in any way. The inevitable result in 4 or 5 years after the deal the pay increases are gone as well as the penalty rates.

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Dnarever

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Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law
Reply #20 - Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:08pm

Jasin wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:02pm:

Overtime is a penalty rate.

Your point ?

Typically over time is hours worked outside of the normal weeks hours. i.e hours worked on top of the 16.75 hours per week and penalty rates are paid for working unsociable hours within the normal weeks rostered hours. So while the overtime rate is a penalty it isn't the same as penalty rates as defined in industrial law.

In some industries it is possible to work overtime on penalty rate hours but there are cases where this is not allowed. i.e you can claim one or the other.

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« Last Edit: Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:18pm by Dnarever »

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Jasin Gold Member Online Posts: 56050 Gender:	Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law Reply #21 - Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:10pm Dnarever wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:08pm: Jasin wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:02pm: Overtime is a penalty rate. Your point ? Like the end of a sabre in your chest
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Dnarever

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Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law
Reply #22 - Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:24pm

Jasin wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:08pm:

Jasin wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:02pm:

Overtime is a penalty rate.

Your point ?

Like the end of a sabre in your chest

Apart of not really being correct it doesn't make any difference to anything even if it were. Its another strawman.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law
Reply #23 - Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:40pm

Well - Work"Choices" was supposed to leave no worker any worse off for accepting rates and conditions - and look where that ended...

Tent City .... high unemployment and part-employment ... mass immigration to prop up GDP in a failing economy and consequent failing social milieu ... rising costs of living without accompanying rises in living standards via incomes to cover, all exacerbated by importing grasping peasants from the Third World - piranha in a complacent pond ........ homing in insecure rentals ... never-ending preferential treatment for some so as to perpetuate social divides and poverty with which to keep the people under control as beggars on the street of work ... rising social disintegration with crime expanding and civil unrest borderlining revolt and revolution.....

Add as you see fit - I'm working without a net as usual..

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Dnarever

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Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law
Reply #24 - Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:56pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:40pm:

Well - Work"Choices" was supposed to leave no worker any worse off for accepting rates and conditions - and look where that ended...

Tent City .... high unemployment and part-employment ... mass immigration to prop up GDP in a failing economy and consequent failing social milieu ... rising costs of living without accompanying rises in living standards via incomes to cover, all exacerbated by importing grasping peasants from the Third World - piranha in a complacent pond ........ homing in insecure rentals ... never-ending preferential treatment for some so as to perpetuate social divides and poverty with which to keep the people under control as beggars on the street of work ... rising social disintegration with crime expanding and civil unrest borderlining revolt and revolution.....

Add as you see fit - I'm working without a net as usual..

Quote:

Work"Choices" was supposed to leave no worker any worse

Workchoices was a disaster for workers, supposedly Gillard's fair work was meant to fix it but was an absolute failure it suffered from the problem I posted on this protection as well as others.

One of the main issues is the boot test only applying to the base award rate. This means that anyone paid above the lowest modern award rate is not protected in any way. This is made worse by the fact that the modern award rate is lower than the real rate paid as the base rate in most industries. This means that the boot test doesn't really protect hardly anyone. It took business advisors about 10 minutes to work out how to work around fair work.

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aquascoot Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 37540 Gender:	Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law Reply #25 - Jul 20^th, 2025 at 6:52am Won't help if you don't have a job and AI won't apply for penalty rates. It will be the best employee. No sick days, no whining and complaining Continue with your irrelevant posting
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freediver

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Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law
Reply #26 - Jul 20^th, 2025 at 7:59am

Dnarever wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:24pm:

Jasin wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:08pm:

Jasin wrote on Jul 19^th, 2025 at 10:02pm:

Overtime is a penalty rate.

Your point ?

Like the end of a sabre in your chest

Apart of not really being correct it doesn't make any difference to anything even if it were. Its another strawman.

Greg got all confused by my mention of overtime, and John is cheering him on. We are yet to establish what their point is. There probably isn't one. They just don't like me pointing out that the unions are screwing over their own members this time.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jasin Gold Member Online Posts: 56050 Gender:	Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law Reply #27 - Jul 20^th, 2025 at 9:26am The cost of doing anything in Australia is more expensive than anywhere in the world. Nothing gets done here. Can't even build our own subs. International companies don't want to set up shop here and create more industry and jobs, labour costs are just too high.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: A Bill To Enshrine Penalty Rates In Law Reply #28 - Jul 20^th, 2025 at 9:41am freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2025 at 7:59am: and John is cheering him on. you drunk again FD? I haven't mentioned Gregs comments
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