Australian Politics Forum - Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil

MeisterEckhart

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #90 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 9:19am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 6:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 5:52pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 2:21pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 2:16pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:51pm:

Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images.

Might there be a point to this?

It seems to me like a "bears indeed poo in the woods even when nobody is there to hear it" kind of research finding.

It makes an argument for multiculturalism.

The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight.

There are no good arguments for multiculturalism. It is a fundamentally bad idea.

If I want to see Somalis- big IF - I'd go to Somalia. I don't go to Malmo or Minneapolis to see Somalis. I don't go to London to see Pakistanis and Nigerians or Paris to see Arabs.

Just as you don't go to Nigeria to see Englishmen and Mogadishu for the Swedes and Shanghai's for the Americans and Australians.

So that's Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) on your recoil list, then.

Have you, personally, had an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity?

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 15854 Gender:	Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil Reply #91 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 9:19am .
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Frank

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #92 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 11:12am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 8:10pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 8:01pm:

What ARE you, then?

You are very cagey about it.

European.

Albanian? Gypsy? Irish? Serb? Russian?

You are very specific about others (subcontinental, specificalli Pakistani; Danish psychos etc) but you prefer to stay in the foggy shadows. Telling.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #93 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 11:40am

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 11:12am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 8:10pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 8:01pm:

What ARE you, then?

You are very cagey about it.

European.

Albanian? Gypsy? Irish? Serb? Russian?

You are very specific about others (subcontinental, specificalli Pakistani; Danish psychos etc) but you prefer to stay in the foggy shadows. Telling.

I'm using the nationalities you've chosen to post.

My categorisations in this thread are general ethnicities.

Have you, personally, had an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity?

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Frank

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #94 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 12:07pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 11:40am:

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 11:12am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 8:10pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 8:01pm:

What ARE you, then?

You are very cagey about it.

European.

Albanian? Gypsy? Irish? Serb? Russian?

You are very specific about others (subcontinental, specificalli Pakistani; Danish psychos etc) but you prefer to stay in the foggy shadows. Telling.

I'm using the nationalities you've chosen to post.

My categorisations in this thread are general ethnicities.

Have you, personally, had an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity?

A fool only learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.'
Otto von Bismarck

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #95 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 12:11pm

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 12:07pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 11:40am:

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 11:12am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 8:10pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 8:01pm:

What ARE you, then?

You are very cagey about it.

European.

Albanian? Gypsy? Irish? Serb? Russian?

You are very specific about others (subcontinental, specificalli Pakistani; Danish psychos etc) but you prefer to stay in the foggy shadows. Telling.

I'm using the nationalities you've chosen to post.

My categorisations in this thread are general ethnicities.

Have you, personally, had an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity?

A fool only learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.'
Otto von Bismarck

So, that'd be a no to having, personally, had an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity, then.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 52622 Gender:	Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil Reply #96 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 12:47pm Well, I had no close encounters with cannibals either but do take a dim view of the practice. Does that make me biased and full of impersonal prejudice? Your question about violent encounters with the Other is a red herring. It is a silly, pointless question but somehow you think it's significant.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #97 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 1:45pm

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 12:47pm:

Well, I had no close encounters with cannibals either but do take a dim view of the practice.
Does that make me biased and full of impersonal prejudice?

It could be that you witnessed others having an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity.

Or that you acquired it second-hand.

Or that you are genetically predisposed to being particularly wary of all ethnicities other than your own.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #98 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 3:24pm

It's not hard to intuit that instinctive ethnocultural recoil is acquired from third parties - usually from family and close family friends, for example, who instil it in us from a young age.

In Australia, the "they carry knives" ethnic warning is so common, it's a cliche, with 'they' usually referring to southern and eastern Europeans... Less so with subcontinentals, notwithstanding that devout Sikhs do carry a knife (a Kirpan) as part of their 5-Ks observance.

Many of these ethnic warnings transcend multiple generations, by which time they have likely long passed their truth value, if they ever had any.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 52622 Gender:	Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil Reply #99 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 4:02pm Very simplistic, as I said before. Class, social status, sex, time, place are probably better indicators, certainly when combined with ethnicity. There were plenty of cut-throats in 19th century Sydney, almost all of them of British ethnicity
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Frank

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #100 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 4:06pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 1:45pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 12:47pm:

Well, I had no close encounters with cannibals either but do take a dim view of the practice.
Does that make me biased and full of impersonal prejudice?

It could be that you witnessed others having an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity.

Or that you acquired it second-hand.

Or that you are genetically predisposed to being particularly wary of all ethnicities other than your own.

It doesn't need to 'recoil'.
Disdain, dislike, distance, disgust, antipathy, scorn also figure.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #101 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 4:12pm

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 4:06pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 1:45pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 12:47pm:

Well, I had no close encounters with cannibals either but do take a dim view of the practice.
Does that make me biased and full of impersonal prejudice?

It could be that you witnessed others having an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity.

Or that you acquired it second-hand.

Or that you are genetically predisposed to being particularly wary of all ethnicities other than your own.

It doesn't need to 'recoil'.
Disdain, dislike, distance, disgust, antipathy, scorn also figure.

They're what recoil means in terms of amygdalic response, with disgust being a recoil reaction from the anterior insula.

From a conscious perspective, disdain, dislike, distance, disgust, antipathy, and scorn are the higher brain function responses to recoil signals from the amygdala or, in the case of disgust, the anterior insula.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #102 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 4:23pm

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 4:02pm:

Very simplistic, as I said before.

Class, social status, sex, time, place are probably better indicators, certainly when combined with ethnicity. There were plenty of cut-throats in 19th century Sydney, almost all of them of British ethnicity

With all else being equal, colonists would generally not have experienced instinctive ethnocultural recoil from images of any other British Isles colonist.

If there was a subcultural context, such as feelings of subcultural animosity among English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish peoples, or even convicts, then they would need to be visibly subcultural. In the case of the Irish, for example, they were often depicted as apelike for that purpose.

Aboriginals, for example, even if dressed as a wealthy colonist, would likely still have triggered instinctive ethnocultural recoil in many British colonists

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Frank

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #103 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 4:35pm

Simplistic and severely reductionist.
And the physiological reaction is not about ethno-cultural differences but general disgust/disdain - one would recoil from a bunch of unruly, aggressive scandinavian tough eggs in a dark lane and not from a group of fuzzy wuzzy angels at the battalion reunion.

Dangerousness is not exhausted by racial or ethnic characteristics. The physiology of recoiling from white or black or brindle danger would be identical. There is no physiological marker for ethnic recoil in the amygdala nor the anterior insula.

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Yadda

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Re: Instinctive Ethnocultural Recoil
Reply #104 - Jul 4^th, 2025 at 4:38pm

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 12:47pm:

Well, I had no close encounters with cannibals either but do take a dim view of the practice.

Does that make me biased and full of impersonal prejudice?

Your question about violent encounters with the Other.....is a red herring.

Correct.

Quote:

Red herring

A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important question.

It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences toward a false conclusion.

A red herring may be used intentionally, as in mystery fiction or as part of rhetorical strategies, or may be used in argumentation inadvertently.

- Wiki

To me, this thread, presented by MeisterEckhart,
seems to be an attempt, at 'a provocation',
intended to evoke a public [and indiscreet] confession of fault, from others.

Am i correct ?

You, yourself, could front up here, MeisterEckhart,
and make a clean breast of it.

And plainly state, YOUR OWN MOTIVE,
in starting this somewhat 'provocative' thread.

.

Yadda >> confesses << to 'suffering' from a NON-instinctive...
'ethno-cultural recoil' here......

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1732843354/0#0

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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