Australian Politics Forum - Iran still wants to build nukes

ProudKangaroo

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #30 - Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:48am

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:45am:

Quote:

My claim was that Iran was compliant during the JCPOA until Trump withdrew and reimposed sanctions.

Were they "actually compliant" or "reported" as being compliant?

Seeing as you are a bit slow on the uptake on this one, I'll give you a hint. I am asking if you can distinguish truth from box ticking.

You can't pick and choose when you want to believe the IAEA.

Your problem is that Iran being compliant doesn't suit your narrative.

Too bad.

Stop demanding the facts bend to your beliefs.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #31 - Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:55am

Iran still wants to build nukes.

Of course it does.

What possible reason would it have to abandon its nuclear weapons program?

For public consumption, the regime has survived a joint Israeli-US attack, which is currently working in he mullahs' favour.

A nuclear weapon would ensure that Iran could project power and influence without serious provocation, as it continues with its long-term ideological goals of establishing a Middle Eastern Shia crescent and the destruction of Israel.

Publicly abandoning its nuclear weapons program would end any hope of being perceived as the most powerful state in the region, surrendering that to its regional, Arab enemy - Saudi Arabia.

What's in it for the mullahs' Iran to dismantle the program?

Cui bono?

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ProudKangaroo

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #32 - Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:03am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:55am:

Iran still wants to build nukes.

Of course it does.

What possible reason would it have to abandon its nuclear weapons program?

Exactly.

But back to my original point, if only someone hadn't torn up the agreement that had Iran going in the opposite direction, as confirmed by the IAEA, who repeatedly verified Iran's compliance with the reductions in uranium enrichment and the dismantling of that capability during the period that the agreement was active.

Instead, thanks to that someone, we watched the deal shredded, sanctions slammed back into place, Iran resume its weapons research and enrichment, and diplomacy collapse entirely as the US demonstrated to the world that it could not be trusted and that its word counted for nothing tying the hands of even the next administrations as they tried to find a diplomatic solution.

And now, here we are, on the doorstep of yet another war, one that could have been so easily avoided, if only...

But that's an inconvenient truth to many whose red hats have clearly cut off the blood supply to their brains, so I suppose the argument will continue, and the misinformation will keep flowing to help soothe their cognitive dissonance.

As those same people loudly call for Nobel Peace Prizes, I'm left wondering, why exactly should we be rewarding someone who proudly claims they put out a fire that, as it turns out, they lit themselves and may have left still smouldering?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #33 - Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:12am

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:03am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:55am:

Iran still wants to build nukes.

Of course it does.

What possible reason would it have to abandon its nuclear weapons program?

Exactly.

But back to my original point, if only someone hadn't torn up the agreement that had Iran going in the opposite direction, as confirmed by the IAEA, who repeatedly verified Iran's compliance with the reductions in uranium enrichment and the dismantling of that capability during the period that the agreement was active.

And Iran immediately returned to enriching Uranium, thereby confirming that it always intended to advance its nuclear weapons program whenever it could, which the original deal allowed it to publicly maintain.

In the meantime, billions in wealth were repatriated to Iran, much of which it used to fund Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis and, likely, sleeper cells throughout the world.

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ProudKangaroo

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #34 - Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:17am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:12am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:03am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:55am:

Iran still wants to build nukes.

Of course it does.

What possible reason would it have to abandon its nuclear weapons program?

Exactly.

But back to my original point, if only someone hadn't torn up the agreement that had Iran going in the opposite direction, as confirmed by the IAEA, who repeatedly verified Iran's compliance with the reductions in uranium enrichment and the dismantling of that capability during the period that the agreement was active.

And Iran immediately returned to enriching Uranium, thereby confirming that it always intended to advance its nuclear weapons program whenever it could, which the original deal allowed it to publicly maintain.

In the meantime, billions in wealth were repatriated to Iran, much of which it used to fund Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis and, likely, sleeper cells throughout the world.

Right, so we can find a diplomatic solution to the problem, which we had, or it could be cancelled by someone who claimed they'd get a better deal, miserabley fail at that despite having the reputation as a deal maker, then set the conditions for war, then choose war as the solution despite being praised as a President of Peace and being anti-war.

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Leroy

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #35 - Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:24am

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:17am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:12am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:03am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:55am:

Iran still wants to build nukes.

Of course it does.

What possible reason would it have to abandon its nuclear weapons program?

Exactly.

But back to my original point, if only someone hadn't torn up the agreement that had Iran going in the opposite direction, as confirmed by the IAEA, who repeatedly verified Iran's compliance with the reductions in uranium enrichment and the dismantling of that capability during the period that the agreement was active.

And Iran immediately returned to enriching Uranium, thereby confirming that it always intended to advance its nuclear weapons program whenever it could, which the original deal allowed it to publicly maintain.

In the meantime, billions in wealth were repatriated to Iran, much of which it used to fund Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis and, likely, sleeper cells throughout the world.

Right, so we can find a diplomatic solution to the problem, which we had, or it could be cancelled by someone who claimed they'd get a better deal, miserabley fail at that despite having the reputation as a deal maker, then set the conditions for war, then choose war as the solution despite being praised as a President of Peace and being anti-war.

Thats your problem, TDS.

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freediver

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #36 - Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:35am

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:48am:

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:45am:

Quote:

My claim was that Iran was compliant during the JCPOA until Trump withdrew and reimposed sanctions.

Were they "actually compliant" or "reported" as being compliant?

Seeing as you are a bit slow on the uptake on this one, I'll give you a hint. I am asking if you can distinguish truth from box ticking.

You can't pick and choose when you want to believe the IAEA.

The IAEA is not God. It can be wrong. If I am picking and choosing when to believe the IAEA, then so is the IAEA.

Quote:

Your problem is that Iran being compliant doesn't suit your narrative.

My problem is that it does not suit the latest IAEA report.

I knew this one would confuse you. Let's try again.

Were they "actually compliant" or "reported" as being compliant?

Seeing as you are a bit slow on the uptake on this one, I'll give you a hint. I am asking if you can distinguish truth from box ticking.

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Leroy

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #37 - Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:42am

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:35am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:48am:

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:45am:

Quote:

My claim was that Iran was compliant during the JCPOA until Trump withdrew and reimposed sanctions.

Were they "actually compliant" or "reported" as being compliant?

Seeing as you are a bit slow on the uptake on this one, I'll give you a hint. I am asking if you can distinguish truth from box ticking.

You can't pick and choose when you want to believe the IAEA.

The IAEA is not God. It can be wrong. If I am picking and choosing when to believe the IAEA, then so is the IAEA.

Quote:

Your problem is that Iran being compliant doesn't suit your narrative.

My problem is that it does not suit the latest IAEA report.

I knew this one would confuse you. Let's try again.

Were they "actually compliant" or "reported" as being compliant?

Seeing as you are a bit slow on the uptake on this one, I'll give you a hint. I am asking if you can distinguish truth from box ticking.

The only way you will get Proudroo to say they were wrong is by saying that Trump was wronger.

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Fareed Zakaria defined the term as "hatred of President Trump so intense that it impairs people's judgment"

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #38 - Jun 28^th, 2025 at 10:09am

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:17am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:12am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:03am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:55am:

Iran still wants to build nukes.

Of course it does.

What possible reason would it have to abandon its nuclear weapons program?

Exactly.

But back to my original point, if only someone hadn't torn up the agreement that had Iran going in the opposite direction, as confirmed by the IAEA, who repeatedly verified Iran's compliance with the reductions in uranium enrichment and the dismantling of that capability during the period that the agreement was active.

And Iran immediately returned to enriching Uranium, thereby confirming that it always intended to advance its nuclear weapons program whenever it could, which the original deal allowed it to publicly maintain.

In the meantime, billions in wealth were repatriated to Iran, much of which it used to fund Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis and, likely, sleeper cells throughout the world.

Right, so we can find a diplomatic solution to the problem, which we had, or it could be cancelled by someone who claimed they'd get a better deal, miserabley fail at that despite having the reputation as a deal maker, then set the conditions for war, then choose war as the solution despite being praised as a President of Peace and being anti-war.

There is no diplomatic solution possible that will convince the Islamic Republic to abandon its ideological goals in the region, nor the nuclear weapons necessary to ensure that they are largely unchallenged...

What can be achieved diplomatically is the charade of nuclear weapons program abandonment. No external agency has complete oversight over a state's acknowledged government's actions to determine with certainty anything within that state.

That Iran could immediately start enriching Uranium meant that it had not dismantled its enrichment capability, and that its will to continue enrichment persisted.

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ProudKangaroo

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #39 - Jun 28^th, 2025 at 12:16pm

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 9:35am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:48am:

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2025 at 8:45am:

Quote:

My claim was that Iran was compliant during the JCPOA until Trump withdrew and reimposed sanctions.

Were they "actually compliant" or "reported" as being compliant?

Seeing as you are a bit slow on the uptake on this one, I'll give you a hint. I am asking if you can distinguish truth from box ticking.

You can't pick and choose when you want to believe the IAEA.

The IAEA is not God. It can be wrong. If I am picking and choosing when to believe the IAEA, then so is the IAEA.

Quote:

Your problem is that Iran being compliant doesn't suit your narrative.

My problem is that it does not suit the latest IAEA report.

I knew this one would confuse you. Let's try again.

Were they "actually compliant" or "reported" as being compliant?

Seeing as you are a bit slow on the uptake on this one, I'll give you a hint. I am asking if you can distinguish truth from box ticking.

Is that what they're "reporting" or did that "actually happen"?

Stupidity aside, I don't know if we're even having the same conversation at this point.

I am not saying Iran is compliant now, because they're not.

They were compliant when the JCPOA was active. That is not an opinion, that is what the IAEA investigated and confirmed. The only reason the JCPOA collapsed is because the United States unilaterally withdrew in 2018 and reimposed sanctions.

That withdrawal triggered the chain of events that led Iran to progressively walk away from their commitments and resume uranium enrichment well beyond civilian levels.

Hence:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 26^th, 2025 at 11:55am:

If only someone hadn't torn up the deal and reimposed sanctions, pushing Iran from compliance to defiance, from dismantling their nuclear capabilities to ramping them up, from engaging at the negotiating table to electing a hardline government that no longer trusts the West to honour its word...

Under the JCPOA, Iran agreed to:

- Daily access for IAEA inspectors to key nuclear facilities.
- 24/7 surveillance via cameras and real-time monitoring.
- The most intrusive verification regime ever negotiated, including tracking Iran's entire nuclear supply chain from uranium mining to enrichment.

This is not speculation. This is what Iran agreed to. This is what they were doing, until the United States broke the deal.

The IAEA itself said this about the verification measures:

Quote:

"The JCPOA is a substantial gain for verification, because the combination of the Comprehensive Safeguards Agreement, Additional Protocol and additional transparency measures represents the most robust verification system in existence anywhere in the world."

Link

For compliance records, you can review the actual IAEA board reports here:

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/iran/iaea-and-iran-iaea-board-reports

If you want to verify compliance during the time the JCPOA was in effect, look specifically between January 16, 2016, and May 8, 2018, though, to be fair, Iran actually remained compliant for some time even after the US pulled out.

If you're going to continue to push the claim that Iran wasn't compliant, you'll need to post actual evidence. Not gut feelings. Not misread headlines. Not semantic games. Show your work.

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freediver

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Re: Iran still wants to build nukes
Reply #40 - Jun 28^th, 2025 at 12:19pm

Quote:

They were compliant when the JCPOA was active. That is not an opinion, that is what the IAEA investigated and confirmed.

Does this confirm it?

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/iaea-board-declares-iran-breach-non-proliferation-duties-diplomats-say-2025-06-12/

Quote:

The U.N. nuclear watchdog's 35-nation Board of Governors declared Iran in breach of its non-proliferation obligations on Thursday for the first time in almost 20 years, raising the prospect of reporting it to the U.N. Security Council.

A central issue is Iran's failure to provide the IAEA with credible explanations of how uranium traces detected at undeclared sites in Iran came to be there despite the agency having investigated the issue for years.

The May 31 IAEA report, a board-mandated "comprehensive" account of developments, found three of the four locations "were part of an undeclared structured nuclear programme carried out by Iran until the early 2000s and that some activities used undeclared nuclear material".

Are you still struggling to tell the difference between the truth and which box is ticked?

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