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Ley's a Zionist Puppet (Read 575 times)
Gnads
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Re: Ley's a Zionist Puppet
Reply #30 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 7:18am
 
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 14th, 2025 at 7:31pm:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Jun 14th, 2025 at 7:18pm:
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 14th, 2025 at 4:37pm:
Ley endorses Israel’s strikes, says nuclear-armed Iran is unacceptable

Federal Opposition Leader Sussan Ley has backed Israel’s right to defend itself with pre-emptive strikes against Iran’s nuclear regime and called for Australian governments to promote social cohesion as Middle East tensions roil diaspora communities.

“The Iranian regime’s ability to acquire nuclear weapons poses a serious and direct threat to world peace and stability,” Ley said in a statement. “Whilst we continue to urge caution, Israel has a right to defend itself.

“Israel is exercising its sovereign right to defend its people and ensure the security of future generations. The world can never accept a nuclear-armed Iran.”

SMH


Israel is widely believed to possess 90 plutonium-based nuclear warheads and to have produced enough plutonium for 100-200 weapons.

https://armscontrolcenter.org/fact-sheet-israels-nuclear-arsenal/

Israel illegally has nuclear weapons and is the instigator of attacks on peaceful neighbours. Zionists are the trouble makers.



Israel hasn't used those weapons... and it does not attack first - it counter-attacks.

You should be rounded up with the rest and renditioned to Gon'Mo.



Goose step on your own time.

Israel has been on the attack from the first moment of their invasion/theft of Palestinian land.

Targeted strikes against nuclear facilities” are prohibited under article 56 of the additional protocol to the Geneva Conventions and that the use of force in international relations is generally prohibited in article 2(4) of the @UN Charter with the exception of the right of self defence in the case of armed attack or upon authorisation by the Security Council in the case of collective security action.

More laws broken by Zionists.


You don't even know what Zionism is.

You use it in a similar fashion to Nazism

And that is simply because of your stupidity.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Jasin
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Re: Ley's a Zionist Puppet
Reply #31 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 7:46am
 
AI can't even get beyond the fact that Palestine was created by the Roman Empire as a theft of Israel/Judah lands to begin with.

Hence why Leftism sticks to the Archaic Westernism (mainland Europe) that holds onto the past pointing back to Rome/Athens. Unlike the progressive modernising true Western of Great Britain, that points to the future via its colonisation in with the New Worlds like America (via Trump/Republicanism, not the Euro-centric Democrats) and Australia (via Coalition, not ALP Leftism).

Israel is just RECLAIMING.
Palestine is a Clayton's country that even other Moslem nations don't recognise and never have.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Ai_Took_Our_Jobs
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Re: Ley's a Zionist Puppet
Reply #32 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 9:56am
 
Gnads wrote on Jun 15th, 2025 at 7:18am:
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 14th, 2025 at 7:31pm:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Jun 14th, 2025 at 7:18pm:
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 14th, 2025 at 4:37pm:
Ley endorses Israel’s strikes, says nuclear-armed Iran is unacceptable

Federal Opposition Leader Sussan Ley has backed Israel’s right to defend itself with pre-emptive strikes against Iran’s nuclear regime and called for Australian governments to promote social cohesion as Middle East tensions roil diaspora communities.

“The Iranian regime’s ability to acquire nuclear weapons poses a serious and direct threat to world peace and stability,” Ley said in a statement. “Whilst we continue to urge caution, Israel has a right to defend itself.

“Israel is exercising its sovereign right to defend its people and ensure the security of future generations. The world can never accept a nuclear-armed Iran.”

SMH


Israel is widely believed to possess 90 plutonium-based nuclear warheads and to have produced enough plutonium for 100-200 weapons.

https://armscontrolcenter.org/fact-sheet-israels-nuclear-arsenal/

Israel illegally has nuclear weapons and is the instigator of attacks on peaceful neighbours. Zionists are the trouble makers.



Israel hasn't used those weapons... and it does not attack first - it counter-attacks.

You should be rounded up with the rest and renditioned to Gon'Mo.



Goose step on your own time.

Israel has been on the attack from the first moment of their invasion/theft of Palestinian land.

Targeted strikes against nuclear facilities” are prohibited under article 56 of the additional protocol to the Geneva Conventions and that the use of force in international relations is generally prohibited in article 2(4) of the @UN Charter with the exception of the right of self defence in the case of armed attack or upon authorisation by the Security Council in the case of collective security action.

More laws broken by Zionists.


You don't even know what Zionism is.

You use it in a similar fashion to Nazism

And that is simply because of your stupidity.



Zionists and Nazis both use the weapon of ethnic cleansing.

There are similarities.
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Jasin
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Re: Ley's a Zionist Puppet
Reply #33 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 10:02am
 
Oh here we go. Roll Eyes

Another FutureTheLeftWant.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Gnads
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Re: Ley's a Zionist Puppet
Reply #34 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 10:40am
 
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 15th, 2025 at 9:56am:
Gnads wrote on Jun 15th, 2025 at 7:18am:
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 14th, 2025 at 7:31pm:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Jun 14th, 2025 at 7:18pm:
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 14th, 2025 at 4:37pm:
Ley endorses Israel’s strikes, says nuclear-armed Iran is unacceptable

Federal Opposition Leader Sussan Ley has backed Israel’s right to defend itself with pre-emptive strikes against Iran’s nuclear regime and called for Australian governments to promote social cohesion as Middle East tensions roil diaspora communities.

“The Iranian regime’s ability to acquire nuclear weapons poses a serious and direct threat to world peace and stability,” Ley said in a statement. “Whilst we continue to urge caution, Israel has a right to defend itself.

“Israel is exercising its sovereign right to defend its people and ensure the security of future generations. The world can never accept a nuclear-armed Iran.”

SMH


Israel is widely believed to possess 90 plutonium-based nuclear warheads and to have produced enough plutonium for 100-200 weapons.

https://armscontrolcenter.org/fact-sheet-israels-nuclear-arsenal/

Israel illegally has nuclear weapons and is the instigator of attacks on peaceful neighbours. Zionists are the trouble makers.



Israel hasn't used those weapons... and it does not attack first - it counter-attacks.

You should be rounded up with the rest and renditioned to Gon'Mo.



Goose step on your own time.

Israel has been on the attack from the first moment of their invasion/theft of Palestinian land.

Targeted strikes against nuclear facilities” are prohibited under article 56 of the additional protocol to the Geneva Conventions and that the use of force in international relations is generally prohibited in article 2(4) of the @UN Charter with the exception of the right of self defence in the case of armed attack or upon authorisation by the Security Council in the case of collective security action.

More laws broken by Zionists.


You don't even know what Zionism is.

You use it in a similar fashion to Nazism

And that is simply because of your stupidity.



Zionists and Nazis both use the weapon of ethnic cleansing.

There are similarities.


Absolute rot.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Ley's a Zionist Puppet
Reply #35 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 11:07am
 
Quote:
Zionism: the history of a contested word
These polarising terms should be shelved, and taken out only when we are discussing political philosophy, which most of the time, we are not.

Jonathan Shamir
21 May 2018

Nathan Birbaum,(1864 - 1937) Austrian writer, Jewish thinker and nationalist. Wikicommons/ Zionist Archive. Some rights reserved.‘Objectivity has ceased to be a goal not only of popular writing on the subject but also of scholarship, and the line between intellectual engagement and political activism hardly exists today’

– Michael Stanislawski, Zionism: A Very Short Introduction, p.1

Written in German in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Theodor Herzl’s Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State) (1896) is widely considered Zionism’s founding document. It was in the same country, six years earlier, that the term was coined by Nathan Birnbaum, the founder of the first Jewish student association in Vienna, Kadimah.

The philosophy was barely fledged before it evoked an impassioned backlash from the 1885 Pittsburgh Platform, where Reform Judaism was essentially founded, and the anti-Zionist Bundists in Russia, who, along with many other Jews, believed Zionism jeopardised the prospects of integration into their host nations.

This controversy has not ceased since. Jewish anti-Zionism has a diverse history, ranging from Satmar Hasidim, who perceived secular Zionism as an abomination and a forced pre-emption of redemption before God’s will, to many Iraqi Jews, who understood growing resentment in their own country as a response to Zionism. But anti-Zionism is not simply confined to Jewish infighting – it is now a staple of leftist thinking and movements.

Anti-Zionism is a negative ideology, and is therefore contingent on the definition of its positive counterpart. The word Zionism, however, is so ambiguous and varied in its meaning and so imbued with emotion, so firmly tied to identity, that invoking it stifles any productive conversation.

Could you expect a Holocaust survivor who found succour in Israel to disavow Zionism entirely? Could you expect a Palestinian expelled from their home and prevented from ever entering it again to be anything but an anti-Zionist?

To move forward, we need to abandon these terms when it comes to discussing Israel-Palestine.

Ideology in flux
Zionism consists of many heterogeneous variants and has changed so dramatically over time that what was once considered Zionism is now considered anti-Zionism.

In the early nineteenth century, the dominant strand of Zionism was Labour Zionism, which sought the redemption of the Jewish people through a renewed connection with the land and the subsequent creation of a socialist haven. At the time, secular bi-nationalism was an acceptable and even mainstream Zionist belief, and there were even several visions for the realisation of this model, spanning from a joint Jewish-Arab commonwealth, to the division of Mandate Palestine into cantons. Mapam, who were the second biggest Zionist party before 1948, believed in a binational solution.

Yet today, one of the main proponents of this model, the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement (BDS), are, by their own definition and that of Israel, perhaps the most prominent anti-Zionist organisation around. The State of Israel considers their goals and intentions so utterly anathema that they have a blacklist of groups who are active with BDS and their members are banned from entering the country.

For some, Zionism means the right to Jewish self-determination, a national liberation movement, but for others, it conjures violent dispossession and continued policies of occupation and colonisation. It is, of course, both, born out of a unique set of historical circumstances.

Yet there are also several positions in between, with no paucity of subscribers. On one side, you have liberal Zionism, which some take to be a paradox, and others consider a marriage of pro-Palestinian activism to their vision of a more just Jewish Israel. On the other extreme, you have a religious Zionism and neo-Zionism that uses Judaism to justify uncompromising expansionist nationalism. Like most philosophies, there was and is a war (in many cases, literally) for its definition.

J Street, an American liberal Zionist organisation, who ‘believe that the Jewish people have the right to a national home of their own’, were at the forefront of the (failed) battle to stop the demolition of Susya, a Palestinian village in Area C, gathering over 12,000 signatures. It was up against a government and the settler movement it supports, who are rigorous adherents to Neo-Zionism, which considers itself the true heir to the pioneering spirit that underpinned the foundation of the State of Israel in the first place. This was just one of many examples of two groups fighting completely opposing causes in the name of Zionism. This was just one of many examples of two groups fighting completely opposing causes in the name of Zionism.

Though Zionism is often qualified with an appended adjective, it seems be changing as a catch-all term too. A joint 2015 Yachad-Ipsos Mori survey found that while 90% of Jews in the UK believe in Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state, just 59% would identify themselves as Zionists, down from 72% in 2010.
cont:
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Ley's a Zionist Puppet
Reply #36 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 11:10am
 
Quote:
In the past, these two items would have been synonymous. The survey goes on to observe that ‘people who are critical of Israel’s current policies should not describe themselves as Zionists even if they are fully supportive of Israel’s legitimacy as a Jewish state’ and that ‘this apparently rapid change in the use of the term merits further examination.’ It is no longer clear in the Jewish community whether the term Zionism means support for Israel’s government, or simply a belief in its right to exist; the anxieties surrounding this definition seem to have encouraged many to drop this association altogether.

But with the settlement enterprise ineluctably entrenched in the Palestinian OPT, and Israel shifting further to the right, can a voice of diaspora protest, alongside near indifference within Israel itself, claim to act as a representative voice for their hijacked Zionism? In other words, has the battle for the soul of Zionism already ended?

To what extent can you disentangle an ideology from its practical realisation?
Many claim that the bona fide resurgence of anti-Semitism, notably in France, where a Holocaust survivor was brutally murdered just last month and from where there has been a mass exodus of Jews, Zionism, in the form of a national home and haven for the Jewish people, is as relevant as ever.

Yet in the fiftieth year of its short seventy-year history, the occupation, which has surely been a turning point in public opinion on Israel (and therefore Zionism), cannot be interpreted as a temporary malaise, but a fundamental feature of Israel as a state, bound up in all the human rights abuses this includes.

The separation of ideology and its political manifestation seems practicable for many proponents of communism, who detach ideology from the atrocities of its realisation which have transpired on almost every occasion. The brutality of Stalin and Mao, it is claimed, are a perversion of this vision. Can Zionism attempt to redeem itself through abstraction?

Certainly, liberal Zionists believe it can. Israel’s Declaration of Independence espoused certain values of ‘complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex’ and ‘guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture’. The modern state of Israel, according to them, is a deviation from this founding vision, and it must be saved – for the sake of both Israelis and Palestinians.

But if Zionism derives much of its validity from the historical circumstances of Jewish persecution, and the language employed by its proponents is not only one of ‘rights’, but ‘needs’, then it seems wilfully selective to de-historicise Zionism. Reification, however, renders Zionism untenable by introducing the indigenous Palestinian population into the equation. As Ari Shavit argued in his best-selling book My Promised Land when discussing the expulsion of Palestinians from the town of Lydda, the action and legacy of expulsion is something that every Zionist must reckon with – it is inextricable from the ideology that produced it. As Ari Shavit argued… the action and legacy of expulsion is something that every Zionist must reckon with – it is inextricable from the ideology that produced it.

There is a glaring blind spot to the Zionist invocation of ‘need’ when it comes to the right of return: the Palestinian population who were expelled in 1948 and their descendants often would’ve benefited from such succour.

In Syria, where the Palestinian population numbers at around half a million, most Palestinians have been caught up in the bloody civil war. Chris Gunness, the head of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), claimed that 95% of the 438,000 Palestinians are in ‘critical need of sustained humanitarian assistance’. The humanitarian ‘need’ in this situation pales in comparison to the brutal shelling of Yarmouk by regime forces. Today, just hundreds of Palestinians remain in what was one of the biggest diaspora communities of Palestinians in the world.

Just before and during the Gulf War, 400,000 Palestinians fled Kuwait for several reasons, all of which were rooted in this existential category of ‘need’. Even in times of peace, the situations of Palestinians – denied citizenship and therefore basic amenities, living in refugee camps, and often subject to political (and frequently racialised) violence – highlights the inherent contradiction of managing a state on ethnic lines: can you have a Jewish and democratic state, which, as part of its national logic, denies the right of return to the indigenous population, but extends the right of return to Jews who often aren’t in need?

That doesn’t mean that they never will be, and sometimes they certainly are, but these contradictions at the heart of Zionism must be unpacked. It certainly seems unreasonable to abstract Zionism in order to avoid confronting such questions.
cont:
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Ley's a Zionist Puppet
Reply #37 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 11:23am
 
Quote:
Conclusion

A broad church of competing movements which have changed over time, all of which are construed and misconstrued many times over, a unique set of historical circumstances in which liberation was colonisation, and the weaponisation of Zionism/anti-Zionism/anti-Semitism for diverging political interests means it is almost impossible to conduct a debate on these terms.

An Israeli professor told me that he was gently encouraged by Palestinian groups to preface his contributions to public discussions by identifying himself as an ‘anti-Zionist’, almost as a prerequisite to be given a platform, while, in an attempted overture to the Jewish community amidst Corbyn’s refusal to celebrate the Balfour Centenary, the Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry told the Jewish community that Jeremy is a ‘Zionist’.

These badges are ultimately meaningless, and often hinder discussion about methods and solidarity between those attempting to address the most critical situations in the conflict: the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and the occupation of and settlement on the West Bank.

For so many, identification as a Zionist is a red line: the person in question is immediately considered racist. Yet so many of these so-called Zionists are at the forefront of the fight for justice for Palestinians.

Similarly, anti-Zionism is also loaded with nasty connotations of anti-Semitism.

These polarising terms should therefore be shelved, and taken out only when we are discussing political philosophy, which most of the time, we are not.

It is too charged, and too ambiguous, to lead to any productive dialogue.


https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/zionism-history-of-contested-word/
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Daves2017
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Re: Ley's a Zionist Puppet
Reply #38 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 2:07pm
 
Leyo is a pointless puppet.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller
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Re: Ley's a Zionist Puppet
Reply #39 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 6:15pm
 
Someone did some figures on this 'ethnic cleansing' and pointed out that at the Hamas claimed rate of casualties - there would be nobody left in both Israel and Gaza.

The real rate is far less than 2% ...hardly 'ethnic cleansing'.
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