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tree of knowledge (Read 318 times)
freediver
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tree of knowledge
Jun 13th, 2025 at 9:20am
 
I see an interesting parallel between the garden of eden story and the switch from a hunter gatherer society to a farm based society. Farming required acquisition of a lot of new knowledge for human society. But the cost was high. It was generally bad for the farmers. They tended to work harder, live shorter lives, have a poorer diet, and were even significantly shorter than their hunter gatherer kin. It is only very recently in human history that agricultural societies have become healthier than hunter gatherer ones, but the epidemic of obesity threatens that also. Hunter gatherers lived in a garden of eden, which they then destroyed with farming.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Jasin
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #1 - Jun 13th, 2025 at 3:22pm
 
I agree.
The Middle-East was more sparse in food resources once it dried out (unlike its former fertile period during the pre-Sapien Hominid ages). Little wonder Farming took root there.
...which in turn created Civilisation - which basically means Humans hunting Humans to steal their Harvests which created official warfare aka military.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Frank
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #2 - Jun 13th, 2025 at 4:58pm
 
Tree of Life
Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil
Fall because of the fruit of that tree. Knowledge as a gain and as a curse.
Redemption: Jesus crucified - hung on a tree
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.'"
Redemption on a Tree of (eternal) Life.



The Judeo- Christian religion and imagination is teeming with symbolism, much of which we have lost. Greco Roman antiquity likewise.
We are left mainly with techne, technique, craft, know-how but not much of the symbolic life.



‘You see, man is in need of a symbolic life - badly in need. We only live banal, ordinary, rational, or irrational things... but we have no symbolic life. Where do we live symbolically? Nowhere, except where we participate in the ritual of life.’ Carl Jung
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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Jasin
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #3 - Jun 14th, 2025 at 8:21am
 
Germany, France and Italy eat from the Tree of Knowledge from the Middle-East.

Great Britain eats from the Tree of Life (it's Colonies)

That's why Great Britain will live forever in its Colonies and the others won't.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #4 - Jun 14th, 2025 at 8:35am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 13th, 2025 at 9:20am:
I see an interesting parallel between the garden of eden story and the switch from a hunter gatherer society to a farm based society. Farming required acquisition of a lot of new knowledge for human society. But the cost was high. It was generally bad for the farmers. They tended to work harder, live shorter lives, have a poorer diet, and were even significantly shorter than their hunter gatherer kin. It is only very recently in human history that agricultural societies have become healthier than hunter gatherer ones, but the epidemic of obesity threatens that also. Hunter gatherers lived in a garden of eden, which they then destroyed with farming.

Of course!

Much of the Genesis story appears predicated on the societal argument between nomadic vs sedentary agricultural life...

Yahweh commands that his people become and remain sedentary and gives them their own land for that purpose, from which all other peoples must be removed.
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Jasin
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #5 - Jun 14th, 2025 at 1:18pm
 
Zoroastrianism said do not eat from the Tree of Knowledge.
So some woman called Eve disobeyed and told Adam to eat also. Pussywipped, he did so.
Thus they fell from the Garden and Judaism (the Fall) was born, f ollowed by Christianity and Mohommedism (the Rise) which tries to get back into the Garden.
Three Alpha female religions of Sin.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Setanta
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #6 - Jun 14th, 2025 at 7:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 13th, 2025 at 9:20am:
I see an interesting parallel between the garden of eden story and the switch from a hunter gatherer society to a farm based society. Farming required acquisition of a lot of new knowledge for human society. But the cost was high. It was generally bad for the farmers. They tended to work harder, live shorter lives, have a poorer diet, and were even significantly shorter than their hunter gatherer kin. It is only very recently in human history that agricultural societies have become healthier than hunter gatherer ones, but the epidemic of obesity threatens that also. Hunter gatherers lived in a garden of eden, which they then destroyed with farming.


I've thought that was what the real story was about for a long time. Going from eating everything the land(god) provided to toil by the sweat of their brow, the reality of agriculture. The Angel with the fiery sword keeping them from returning is the burning hunger of starvation. I also see the Cain and Abel story as a metaphor for the long history of warfare between pastoralist vs settled agrculturalists.
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« Last Edit: Jun 14th, 2025 at 7:45pm by Setanta »  
 
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Jasin
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #7 - Jun 14th, 2025 at 8:07pm
 
Stage one: Hunter Gatherer (low populations)
Stage two: Farming (Medium populations)
Stage three: Cannibalism (over-populated)
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Yadda
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #8 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 12:09am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 13th, 2025 at 9:20am:

I see an interesting parallel between the garden of eden story and the switch from a hunter gatherer society to a farm based society. Farming required acquisition of a lot of new knowledge for human society. But the cost was high. It was generally bad for the farmers. They tended to work harder, live shorter lives, have a poorer diet, and were even significantly shorter than their hunter gatherer kin. It is only very recently in human history that agricultural societies have become healthier than hunter gatherer ones, but the epidemic of obesity threatens that also. Hunter gatherers lived in a garden of eden, which they then destroyed with farming.



"......Hunter gatherers lived in a garden of eden,
......which they then destroyed with farming."



That is too deep for me.




444444




Do we have knowledge [do we believe] that a man known as Jesus.....lived as a man, among men ?

Do we have knowledge [do we believe] that Jesus lived as a faultless individual, among men ?

Do we have knowledge [do we believe, CAN WE ACCEPT] that all men [through their choices.....when they 'come of age'] become morally corrupt ?



And, did Cain murder his brother Abel......or do you regard that account in scripture,
as simply a fable ?


"a faultless individual".....while he lived among men, Jesus lived his life faultlessly.....he lived wholly within the strictures of God's Ten Commandments.


.


1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22  For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23  But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24  But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


sanctify = =
1 consecrate.
2 make legitimate or binding by religious sanction.
3 free from sin.



.


freediver,

Have you ever considered, that   'life, the universe, and everything',   may be much simpler than many of us are prepared [are willing] to accept ?

I mean......just step outside, on a starry, starry night, and look up.
....this life just, has to be,....so, so more complicated,
than just a talking serpent, in a perfect garden.

Right ?



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #9 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 2:15am
 
Yadda wrote on Jun 15th, 2025 at 12:09am:

freediver,

Have you ever considered, that   'life, the universe, and everything',   may be much simpler than many of us are prepared [are willing] to accept ?




Maybe God [our creator], in His word, has already made it clear to us,
what His purpose is [in our 'being', and in each of us, living a 'life', of choices, here].

If we believe God's word, God is simply 'a farmer', who has 'planted His field'.....and "the harvest of the earth", is coming.

Isn't that simple enough for you ?


Matthew 13:36
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37  He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38  The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.


Matthew 13:47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48  Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49  So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,


Revelation 14:15
And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16  And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Jasin
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #10 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 6:32am
 
Yadda. Your beta male Gay Messiah Jesus had nothing to do with it.
Just like beta male Redneck Prophet Mohommed.
Other than them both being the bookends of Christianity, which promoted Europe as the false Garden of Eden at the time before the New Worlds showed the real Truth... which had the Jews kicked out of it (another Fall) and the Moslems being prevented to enter it ( the Rise) - as we are seeing, besides the Left trying to let them in.

The three Monotheisms are Beta male cockups.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Yadda
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #11 - Jun 15th, 2025 at 9:55pm
 
Jasin wrote on Jun 15th, 2025 at 6:32am:

Yadda. Your beta male Gay Messiah Jesus had nothing to do with it.
.....
.....

The three Monotheisms are Beta male cockups.




jasin,

You seem fixated upon 'alpha' and 'beta' types. ??

There are no so-called alpha males on planet earth, imo.

[e.g.  can you tell us all, what have your so-called alpha male types, 'achieved' recently.]



jasin,

Is the so-called alpha male, the pattern of example, whom you seek to emulate, yourself ?

emulate = = attempt to match or surpass, typically by imitation.


jasin,

If yes, you too, have become a captive of social engineering and 'positive allure' marketing,
which is constantly being broadcast upon the band-waves of the global MSM.

You are choosing.....to live within, a social dystopian political reality, like '1984'.

allure = = powerful attraction or fascination.


jasin,

The bad news is that........we are all 'dead men walking'.

The so-called alpha males, and the so-called beta males, are all 'dead men walking'.


e.g.
The guy in western Sydney with a Glock, who murders a 'business rival' on a street,
is not the definition of an alpha male,  ....not in any sane persons lexicon.

And it is worth asking.....why does the guy in western Sydney with a Glock, do such things ?

A.
Because his own psyche......has been infused with
1/ a wilful pride and
2/ a desire,
to fulfill, the desire of his flesh.....and such 'motivators' are proof.....of the inner death.



Mark 7:21
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22  Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23  All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.


Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.
If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."




Jesus purpose and work......

John 10:2
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3  To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4  And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5  And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6  This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7  Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8  All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9  I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10  The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Isaiah 55:1
Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
2  Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Jasin
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Re: tree of knowledge
Reply #12 - Jun 16th, 2025 at 8:28pm
 
Dear Yadda. Alpha & Beta is just a current popular way of describing those who Keep the Past (Beta) - those that eat from the Tree of Knowledge (what is known).
And those that Take the Future (Alpha) - those that eat from the Tree of Life (what there is to come to know).

I guess, Yadda. I just like to keep it short and punchy.  Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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