Australian Politics Forum - Plane crash India, 242 on board

Gordon

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #30 - Jun 13^th, 2025 at 8:31pm

At this early stage, I’m reluctant to label this accident “human error” but it’s worth observing that at around the time the aircraft started its terminal descent into the ground, the undercarriage was still deployed. Landing gear retraction is the first configuration change after lift-off. As soon as the aircraft is confirmed airborne and with a positive rate of climb the pilots retract the gear. It has no more use and simply creates aerodynamic drag so it is raised into the airframe.

The key question here is – were the flaps retracted after take-off instead of the undercarriage?

David Evans was a Qantas pilot for 37 years.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-can-t-be-certain-what-caused-the-air-india-cra...

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Gordon

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #31 - Jun 13^th, 2025 at 8:36pm

Ron Bartsch is a leading expert in aviation safety and chairman of Avlaw — a respected international aviation consulting company.

He said it appears the aircraft's flaps — which help increase lift on take-off and landing — do not appear to be in the right position, and the landing gear is down.

"There are some abnormalities with the video that I've seen," he told ABC NEWS Verify.

"The fact that the aircraft still appears to be with its gear down and flaps retracted at 600 feet after take-off is not the usual configuration for an aircraft.

"The aircraft would have been very close to maximum take-off weight, the ambient conditions were around 40 degrees Celsius — so they're not conditions for aircraft performance.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-13/india-plane-crash-what-happened-video-fli...

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #32 - Jun 13^th, 2025 at 11:39pm

Here is a full video of takeoff to crash
https://x.com/Pulsebyshinde/status/1933171445003391136

Looked OK up to V1 which is where you decide to continue or abort.

At VR plane lifted off appeared to climb ok no problem so far.

Around 30 seconds into video appears plane stops climbing.

With one engine out and the other working plane should achieve V2 speed which gives climb around 200 ft/min.

Even if one engine fails landing gear should be brought up to reduce drag to maintain V2 speed.

Flaps help low speed flight he wasn't going fast enough to reduce them it doesn't look like they were set for takeoff.

The plane was nose high going too slow and stalled. Pilot should have pushed stick forward and levelled out to keep speed nose up slowed it even further.
Yes there was an emergency first rule in those situations is fly the plane.

Link mentions possible failure with FADEC it could have been a bird strike like Captain Sully had when he landed in Hudson river.

Takeoff is the most dangerous part with flying you have no speed or altitude where you can push nose down to gain speed plane is at it heaviest which means stall speeds are higher.
Look what happened with Concorde crash.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #33 - Jun 14^th, 2025 at 8:24am

Yep - I don't see flaps. FFS .... second nature on takeoff and landing.. got up coupla hundred feet then faltered - lack of lift. Plenty of power from the dust swirls on liftoff.... also crabbed to the right a bit... possible engine failure...

Full investigation as to why - if that is the case - and how the pilots missed flaps and slats. When I were learning to fly, flaps were tested with engines off to check batteries - if they wouldn't extend properly on battery power alone, no fly today. Cockpit check lists are clear and there are warnings about flaps etc.

I'm going with flaps not set - tired or drunk pilots or something or arguing over something or playing with the hosties.

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« Last Edit: Jun 14^th, 2025 at 8:30am by Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM »

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Carl D

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #34 - Jun 14^th, 2025 at 10:13am

Not a good year for aviation so far, is it?

Full list of horror plane crashes in 2025 that have claimed the lives of 383 passengers

You won't catch me getting on a plane anytime in the near future. In fact, probably never.

I can't help but wonder if a certain virus that isn't talked about anymore but has been proved to cause brain damage (referred to as "brain fog" to try and make it sound mostly harmless) - especially with multiple infections - has a lot to do with this?

Going anywhere near pilots and air traffic controllers affected by brain "fog". I'll pass, thanks.

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« Last Edit: Jun 14^th, 2025 at 11:19am by Carl D »

** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **

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Frank

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #35 - Jun 14^th, 2025 at 11:39am

Carl D wrote on Jun 14^th, 2025 at 10:13am:

Not a good year for aviation so far, is it?

Full list of horror plane crashes in 2025 that have claimed the lives of 383 passengers

You won't catch me getting on a plane anytime in the near future. In fact, probably never.

I can't help but wonder if a certain virus that isn't talked about anymore but has been proved to cause brain damage (referred to as "brain fog" to try and make it sound mostly harmless) - especially with multiple infections - has a lot to do with this?

Going anywhere near pilots and air traffic controllers affected by brain "fog". I'll pass, thanks.

What about bus drivers? Zimmer-frame drivers?

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Carl D

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #36 - Jun 14^th, 2025 at 12:36pm

Moving right along...

Aussie cricket star David Warner has vowed to NEVER fly with Air India again after plane crash disaster

Quote:

Former Australian cricketer David Warner has vowed to never fly Air India against after the recent plane crash disaster that killed 274 people.

On June 12, Air India Flight AI171, a Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner enroute from Ahmedabad to London Gatwick, crashed shortly after takeoff, resulting in 274 fatalities, including 241 onboard and 33 on the ground.

Quote:

Warner, who recently returned to Pakistan for the completion of the PSL, shared an alleged account from an ex-Air India crew person named Vivek that had been posted to social media.

'Hey! I'm an ex air india crew and this was a frequent aircraft that I'd fly,' the original post read.

'This aircraft has had issues for YEARS. Literally years.

'The crew, pilots, engineers, literally everyone has always mentioned about it in the log book.

'But the company didn't have a spare Dreamliner for their most precious Gatwick sector. Which is why we were always made to fly this aircraft.

'I've myself had an engine failure on this aircraft. Thankfully we landed back safely.

'It was a similar case where we took off and immediately landed back without being in air for even 30 mins.

'Here, no staff but solely the company is at fault. But the company won't let any staff talk about it on a public channel. They'd rather blame the staff and not take accountability.'

Interesting.

But, the "black boxes" have now been recovered so I don't think it should take too long to pinpoint the cause of this disaster.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #37 - Jun 14^th, 2025 at 1:34pm

Marla wrote on Jun 13^th, 2025 at 12:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 12^th, 2025 at 10:08pm:

Police commissioner tells AP there appears to be no survivors from Air India airliner that crashed.

Phew! At least none of them were black and en route to Chicago. eh, Blooby, you f**king racist piece of trash.

Nope. They were curry-munchers on their way to London to live. England is basically colonised by Indians.

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At this stage...

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Sophia

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #38 - Jun 14^th, 2025 at 4:56pm

This is a fascinating read about miraculous survivors of plane crashes.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/sole-survivors-of-plane-crashes-why-do-people-sur...

Some interesting pointers about seats location and crashes.
Seems best to sit in back third of plane where I usually sit

https://www.9news.com.au/world/plane-crash-accident-survival-south-korea-jeju-ai...

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Sir Eoin O Fada Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2951 New England, NSW Gender:	Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board Reply #39 - Jun 14^th, 2025 at 6:37pm Jasin wrote on Jun 13^th, 2025 at 8:08am: Gordon wrote on Jun 12^th, 2025 at 7:32pm: May the toilets exploded https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr42drdkwyxo Looks like you may be right Gordo Have you got a few hundred more jokes? They could be put on the memorial
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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #40 - Jun 14^th, 2025 at 7:25pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 14^th, 2025 at 1:34pm:

Marla wrote on Jun 13^th, 2025 at 12:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 12^th, 2025 at 10:08pm:

Police commissioner tells AP there appears to be no survivors from Air India airliner that crashed.

Phew! At least none of them were black and en route to Chicago. eh, Blooby, you f**king racist piece of trash.

Nope. They were curry-munchers on their way to London to live. England is basically colonised by Indians.

You’re right, English is an Indo-European language, and contains many Sanskrit words.
You probably have proto-Indian ancestors yourself.
Also it is nigh on impossible to munch curry, toast yes but curry no.

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« Last Edit: Jun 14^th, 2025 at 8:26pm by Sir Eoin O Fada »

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #41 - Jun 14^th, 2025 at 7:40pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 14^th, 2025 at 8:24am:

Yep - I don't see flaps. FFS .... second nature on takeoff and landing.. got up coupla hundred feet then faltered - lack of lift. Plenty of power from the dust swirls on liftoff.... also crabbed to the right a bit... possible engine failure...

Full investigation as to why - if that is the case - and how the pilots missed flaps and slats. When I were learning to fly, flaps were tested with engines off to check batteries - if they wouldn't extend properly on battery power alone, no fly today. Cockpit check lists are clear and there are warnings about flaps etc.

I'm going with flaps not set - tired or drunk pilots or something or arguing over something or playing with the hosties.

Like all crashes it's a combination of mistakes not just one cause.

I doubt flaps caused it flight radar showed it peaked at 625ft flight problems would have showed up before it reached that altutude.

Pilot complained loss of power yet first video i posted you can hear engine working plane can still fly with one engine.
No sparks or flames coming out which is common with ingesting stuff into engine.

It was flying with nose high AOA which increases drag reducing lift if you're not going fast.
Planes hold nosewheel off the ground with this AOA when landing to increase drag helping slow down.

If 1 engine failed he should have pushed the nose down neutral AOA level flight hold 600ft altitude until speed builds up lift landing gear.They can fly Ok on one engine. Next step would be considering dumping fuel before turning around to land as maximum takeoff weight is always higher than maximum landing weight.

If it was a problem with both engines he was going down just a question of where.

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Sophia Gold Member Offline Posts: 9084	Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board Reply #42 - Jun 14^th, 2025 at 11:29pm It crashed into a student accommodation… and 24 people on the ground died as a result, on top of the number of passengers that died.
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Gnads

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #43 - Jun 15^th, 2025 at 7:05am

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jun 14^th, 2025 at 7:25pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 14^th, 2025 at 1:34pm:

Marla wrote on Jun 13^th, 2025 at 12:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 12^th, 2025 at 10:08pm:

Police commissioner tells AP there appears to be no survivors from Air India airliner that crashed.

Phew! At least none of them were black and en route to Chicago. eh, Blooby, you f**king racist piece of trash.

Nope. They were curry-munchers on their way to London to live. England is basically colonised by Indians.

You’re right, English is an Indo-European language, and contains many Sanskrit words.
You probably have proto-Indian ancestors yourself.
Also it is nigh on impossible to munch curry, toast yes but curry no.

Curry on toast? Curry on a cruskit? Grin

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Re: Plane crash India, 242 on board
Reply #44 - Jun 15^th, 2025 at 7:43am

Gnads wrote on Jun 15^th, 2025 at 7:05am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jun 14^th, 2025 at 7:25pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 14^th, 2025 at 1:34pm:

Marla wrote on Jun 13^th, 2025 at 12:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 12^th, 2025 at 10:08pm:

Police commissioner tells AP there appears to be no survivors from Air India airliner that crashed.

Phew! At least none of them were black and en route to Chicago. eh, Blooby, you f**king racist piece of trash.

Nope. They were curry-munchers on their way to London to live. England is basically colonised by Indians.

You’re right, English is an Indo-European language, and contains many Sanskrit words.
You probably have proto-Indian ancestors yourself.
Also it is nigh on impossible to munch curry, toast yes but curry no.

Curry on toast? Curry on a cruskit? Grin

Butter and jam on toast; munching butter and jam?

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