Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 
Send Topic Print
US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending (Read 2617 times)
Marla
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A joint a day keeps the
MAGA away

Posts: 14558
Colorado
Gender: female
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #75 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 1:18am
 
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 4:40pm:
Dumping the dead weight of current alliances, Australia can adapt quicker to low cost opportunities.




That's my point. It will take decades for Australia to adapt, and that's more than just building factories to manufacture weapons. Then where are you going to get the engineers to design weapons, the school to teach them and the places to test them?

A lot of Australians who are pilots also train here in places like Luke Air Force Base in Arizona or Mountain Home in Idaho. All on the American taxpayer dime. Now you have to build your own air force bases and again, decades.

I'm not dumping on the Australian military or Australia as an ally but what Trump is doing with the military is utilizing it like any crime boss would, you want protection? Pay for it.

You cannot "low cost" your war machine. Look what happened to RuZZia.
Back to top
 

I like takin' Tuinal. It keeps me edgy and mean. I'm a teenage schizoid I'm a teenage dope fiend
 
IP Logged
 
Marla
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A joint a day keeps the
MAGA away

Posts: 14558
Colorado
Gender: female
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #76 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 1:20am
 
SerialBrain9 wrote on Jun 5th, 2025 at 10:29am:
AUKUS nuclear submarine saga we’re tangled up in.
It’s a bloody expensive beast, and there’s plenty to chew over. Here’s the state of play as of June 2025:

1. AUKUS Agreement Lowdown 

Back in September 2021, we signed up for the AUKUS pact with the Yanks and Poms to score some shiny, nuclear-powered (but conventionally armed) subs to replace our creaky old Collins-class diesel jobs. Here’s the gist: 

- Pillar One: We’re set to nab 3–5 US Virginia-class subs in the early 2030s, then build our own SSN-AUKUS class (based on a UK design) in Adelaide by the early 2040s. 

- Pillar Two: Bit of tech-sharing on the side, but let’s be real—subs are the main event. 

- Price Tag: A whopping $368 billion AUD through the 2050s. Yep, you read that right. Most expensive defence project we’ve ever tackled. 😳 

2. What’s Happening Now? 

- Progress: Defence Minister Richard Marles reckons we’re “on track” (as of May 31, 2025). He’s banging on about boosting defence spending to keep it rolling.

The Poms are locked in to deliver 12 SSN-AUKUS subs by the late 2030s, which is critical since our first home-built sub leans on their design. 

- US Commitment: We coughed up $US500 million earlier this year to prop up US shipyards.   Shocked

USS Minnesota (a Virginia-class sub) rocked up at HMAS Stirling in Feb 2025 for a bit of a show-and-tell, with more visits planned to get our navy mates up to speed. 

- Training & Infrastructure: We’ve got 115 Aussies training with the US nuclear navy and another 130 learning how to fix these beasts in Hawaii. Plus, a $480 million training facility in Osborne, SA, is being built—should be done by 2028. 

3. The Headaches 

Here’s where it gets messy: 

- US Production Woes: The Yanks can barely keep up with their own sub orders, let alone ours. Some bigwig, Elbridge Colby (tipped for Trump’s Pentagon), reckons giving us subs could kneecap their deterrence against China, especially if Taiwan kicks off. 🤔 

- Tariffs & Costs: Trump’s slapped steel and aluminium tariffs on allies like the UK and Canada, which could jack up costs for Virginia-class subs. Oh, and we’ve got a 2025 deadline to fork out $2 billion of a $3 billion pledge to US shipyards. Ouch. 💸   Undecided

- UK Stuff-Ups: The Poms’ own project agency called their ability to make nuclear reactor cores for SSN-AUKUS “unachievable.” - you heard that right - “UNACHIEVABLE” 🤨

That’s a problem, ‘cause if they can’t deliver, we’re stuffed when the Collins-class start retiring in the 2030s. 

- Sovereignty Drama: Big names like Malcolm Turnbull 😆 and Bob Carr are whinging that AUKUS ties us too tight to US foreign policy, maybe even selling out our sovereignty.

Same blokes who’d probably hand our healthcare sovereignty to Bill Gates’ WHO in a heartbeat. 🙄 Plus, there’s chatter about whether these subs are for our defence or just to back Uncle Sam’s China beef. But to me - this doesn’t matter - it falls in line with Australia becoming more “prickly”

4. Why We Want ‘Em

These subs are meant to be a game-changer—stealthy, fast, and able to loiter in the Indo-Pacific for ages. Perfect for keeping an eye on China’s navy, especially after their cheeky flotilla did a lap around Oz in early 2025. Imagine if we had the Nuclear Subs and unbeknown to the chinks we popped up on their stern?

5. The “Plan B” Crowd & Critics 

Some reckon we should ditch AUKUS for a cheaper option, like French Suffren-class nuclear subs—smaller, less pricey, and less reliant on the US. Paul Keating’s been banging that drum,  Roll Eyes calling AUKUS a lock-in to Washington’s anti-China crusade.
Has anyone looked at the new Subs from South Korea?

6. Public & Political Vibes 

The deal’s got bipartisan backing here, locked in by the US National Defence Authorisation Act in 2023. But groups like “Labor Against War” are pushing for a rethink, especially with Trump’s crew making things unpredictable.

Others question why we’re chasing nuclear subs without a nuclear power industry, me included. We need the knowhow, we need the expertise, we need a stable electricity supply, we need the manpower.

Oh, and if anyone is telling you we are only going to pay 5 Billion per sub - tell them they have rocks in their heads - they are NOT looking at the big picture.



Hey asshole, who is going to pay for the training and time it takes to equip a crew to run those subs?
Back to top
 

I like takin' Tuinal. It keeps me edgy and mean. I'm a teenage schizoid I'm a teenage dope fiend
 
IP Logged
 
Marla
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A joint a day keeps the
MAGA away

Posts: 14558
Colorado
Gender: female
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #77 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 1:21am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jun 5th, 2025 at 4:11pm:
Australia increased Defence spending by $50 Billion last year.




Mostly on buying American, British and France made weapons. You need a qualified military to operate them.
Back to top
 

I like takin' Tuinal. It keeps me edgy and mean. I'm a teenage schizoid I'm a teenage dope fiend
 
IP Logged
 
Marla
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A joint a day keeps the
MAGA away

Posts: 14558
Colorado
Gender: female
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #78 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 2:02am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 10:17pm:
It all comes down to Taiwan which is a Chinese province (indeed the ROC losers themselves claimed to be the sole government of all China, until recently); Oz should not get involved in an ideological dispute between 1.4 billion Chinese on the mainland versus 26 million Chinese on the island (and the KMT in Taiwan don't want a war with China). 





Really? You seriously think China is going to stop after Taiwan? Just like that?
Back to top
 

I like takin' Tuinal. It keeps me edgy and mean. I'm a teenage schizoid I'm a teenage dope fiend
 
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 115176
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #79 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 5:43am
 
flip page
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 115176
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #80 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 5:47am
 
Marla wrote on Jun 7th, 2025 at 2:02am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 10:17pm:
It all comes down to Taiwan which is a Chinese province (indeed the ROC losers themselves claimed to be the sole government of all China, until recently); Oz should not get involved in an ideological dispute between 1.4 billion Chinese on the mainland versus 26 million Chinese on the island (and the KMT in Taiwan don't want a war with China). 





Really? You seriously think China is going to stop after Taiwan? Just like that?



I think the Chinks will copy the Japs plan from WW2 -
take the Philippines, Singapore, Malaysia and
eventually end up at Darwin in Australia.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Jasin
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 54363
Gender: male
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #81 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 6:38am
 
John Smith wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 9:36pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 9:07pm:
John Smith wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 9:11am:
whiteknight wrote on Jun 2nd, 2025 at 8:28am:
US wants Aust to up defence spending to 3.5 per cent   Sad



Australia should increase it's rent for US bases in Pine Gap, Darwin and Brisbane by 35%



We don't charge any rent you silly Billy.

It's all part of the nuclear umbrella that the US says they supply to us.   Roll Eyes


so charge them rent dumbarse ...  the amount they want defense spending to increase should do it. And they don't provide sh1t. They're not going to use nukes to defend your arse. Trump has already shown how quickly the Americans will abandon it's allies. '

'By the way, you can add  the Port of Darwin to the list, since the Americans want to be the ones to replace China as the lessee when albo cancels the existing lease

Is that like how Great Britain 'abandoned' France via its Brexit ❓
Back to top
 

AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
IP Logged
 
Jasin
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 54363
Gender: male
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #82 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 6:43am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 10:17pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 4th, 2025 at 10:08am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 4th, 2025 at 9:54am:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 4th, 2025 at 9:09am:
Jasin wrote on Jun 4th, 2025 at 8:06am:
Marla wrote on Jun 4th, 2025 at 4:32am:
TEPFAM wrote on Jun 3rd, 2025 at 10:07pm:
Trumpica wants us to increase defence spending.




No, he wants Australia to protect and defend it's own F A T ass. Your free ride on the American taxpayer dime is coming to an end.



For once. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH MARLA.
Australia, like the rest of the world has sponged and relied on America to do it for them.



But we can't - China!
how could we take on the largest navy in the world?


The irony is that they used our Steel and Aluminium to build it.   Roll Eyes


They may have the largest navy in terms of numbers, but they don't yet have the ability to truly project that power beyond their shores as a real blue water navy does. They also don't have any fighting experience, unlike the US Navy, UK Navy or even the Australian Navy. I think that experience will count more than numbers should any conflict begin.



We can only stop China if the Yanks help us.

We can't do what Marla wants -

"No, he wants Australia to protect and defend it's own F A T ass."


And why does Oz need to "stop China"?

As opposed to the US which wants to maintain global hegemony....

It all comes down to Taiwan which is a Chinese province (indeed the ROC losers themselves claimed to be the sole government of all China, until recently); Oz should not get involved in an ideological dispute between 1.4 billion Chinese on the mainland versus 26 million Chinese on the island (and the KMT in Taiwan don't want a war with China). 

The war-mongers in the US (and here) are of course  itching to start a cross- strait war, in order to hinder China's rise; but - provided the US doesn't support the separatists' goal of recognition of Taiwan as a sovereign country - Xi will be reluctant to shed Chinese blood on either side of the strait. 

Hegseth is of course beating the drums of war while demanding US allies spend more on "defence", confident China will lose.   

Deplorable.

You're right there GD
CCP is even allowing Taiwan to remain National.
It just wants a stronger bond with Taiwan in alliance.
The War Mongering Democrats just want to create division and conflict between the two aka - a lot of dead people.
Back to top
 

AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 19734
Gender: male
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #83 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 1:36pm
 
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 7:30pm:
Ai is not CCP. Ai is its own threats and benefits.



Even when funded by the CCP. Right got it. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

But I notice you didn't tell us why you implicitly trust the CCP. Wink
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 333
Gender: male
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #84 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 1:42pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 7th, 2025 at 1:36pm:
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 7:30pm:
Ai is not CCP. Ai is its own threats and benefits.


Even when funded by the CCP. Right got it. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

But I notice you didn't tell us why you implicitly trust the CCP. Wink



I notice you never answer my questions. Levelling the playing field from now on.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 19734
Gender: male
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #85 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 1:44pm
 
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 7th, 2025 at 1:42pm:
I notice you never answer my questions.



Really? Which ones? The ones from your ever so reliable AI? They are not YOUR questions. You need to cite some of the papers on which they rely. Wink
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #86 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 4:37pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 9:52pm:
John Smith wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 8:14pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 8:11pm:
John Smith wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 9:11am:
whiteknight wrote on Jun 2nd, 2025 at 8:28am:
US wants Aust to up defence spending to 3.5 per cent   Sad


Australia should increase it's rent for US bases in Pine Gap, Darwin and Brisbane by 35%


So you want to increase the rent?  You want them to pay 35% more?  So, they'll pay 35% more Peppercorns?  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


what are you blabbering about? If you want to say something, just say it. Don't be scared.


America's rent for Pine Gap has been based on the concept of a "Peppercorn Rent" - a nominal amount which is not monetary in value.  When Australia handed over the site, Harold Holt declared it would be a symbolic amount, a "Peppercorn Rent", literally a small bag of peppercorns.  Holt literally was handed a small bag of Peppercorns when he established Pine Gap. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Interesting but irrelevant. What Harold holt did has nothing to do with what we do now. If trump can throw out all the US's previous agreements with it's allies, so can we.
Back to top
 

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
IP Logged
 
Daves2017
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2775
Gender: male
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #87 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 4:50pm
 
What is relevant right now is the Ukrainian army is building its own weapons from local material.

We need to stop the convict mentally and get our own poo together .

For our own defence and our own economic advantages!

We have already wasted billions on submarines that will never see the day of light.

Pathetic Scomo
Back to top
 

Hitler would be very proud of the advancement of Australian culture under our governments control and choices.
 
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 14474
Gender: male
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #88 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 6:03pm
 
Marla wrote on Jun 7th, 2025 at 2:02am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 10:17pm:
It all comes down to Taiwan which is a Chinese province (indeed the ROC losers themselves claimed to be the sole government of all China, until recently); Oz should not get involved in an ideological dispute between 1.4 billion Chinese on the mainland versus 26 million Chinese on the island (and the KMT in Taiwan don't want a war with China). 





Really? You seriously think China is going to stop after Taiwan? Just like that?


Yes. China has  already reclaimed  the extent of the old Qing dynasty lands,  except for Mongolia, after the 'century of humiliation' at the hands of Western powers.

Apart from the ideological dispute over Taiwan,  China has no interest in expanding its sovereignty by attacking other countries - the old-fashioned way now disallowed by the creation of the UN in 1946. 


Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 7th, 2025 at 6:19pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 14474
Gender: male
Re: US Wants Australia To Up Defence Spending
Reply #89 - Jun 7th, 2025 at 6:11pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 7th, 2025 at 1:36pm:
Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on Jun 6th, 2025 at 7:30pm:
Ai is not CCP. Ai is its own threats and benefits.



Even when funded by the CCP. Right got it. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

But I notice you didn't tell us why you implicitly trust the CCP. Wink


I trust the CCP tp devote its energies to making China  "a prosperous, green socialist society" by 2049, the centenary of CCP government as stated by Xi,  under the auspices of the UN, without waging trade (or hot) wars on anyone.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 7th, 2025 at 6:20pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 
Send Topic Print