Australian Politics Forum - Ben loses appeal

Frank

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Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far
Reply #15 - May 16^th, 2025 at 9:15pm

John Smith wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 8:48pm:

Frank wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 8:45pm:

John Smith wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 8:32pm:

Frank wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 5:49pm:

Criminalizing the killing of the enemy by soldiers w

you mean killing unarmed people who have their arms tied behind their backs

they're soldiers, not executioners.

Enemy.

We sent them to kill the enemy.
They did. Good.

only in your head. They were sent to defeat the enemy, not kill them. There's a difference

No there isn't.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far
Reply #16 - May 16^th, 2025 at 10:01pm

No DIRECT evidence shows he murdered anybody. Read it.

Matters like this shouldn't be at such huge cost... a simple application to a court and the only proof required is that the person making the statement prove truth.

Even when a person 'wins' such a case, the public generally think it's only about money, and the entire process has been sullied by 'scoundrels with money' using it to cover over their faults.... 'the last resort of scoundrels'.....

NOBODY actually saw the man murder anyone. A body or bodies reported LATER by locals does not prove the deceased was a victim of murder by an Allied trooper - there is no forensic evidence to link weapons and even calibres etc... and it is not unknown for the 'locals' to complain of a body killed by someone else so they could collect blood money for the killing.

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« Last Edit: May 16^th, 2025 at 10:08pm by Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Belgarion

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Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far
Reply #17 - May 16^th, 2025 at 10:19pm

Normally I would have put this entire saga down to leftist media wanting to do anything they can to discredit the ADF with no regard for the truth. However the fact that members of BRS' own regiment have come forward to give evidence against him says that there is something more to this than the usual media slander.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far
Reply #18 - May 16^th, 2025 at 10:24pm

Belgarion wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 10:19pm:

Normally I would have put this entire saga down to leftist media wanting to do anything they can to discredit the ADF with no regard for the truth. However the fact that members of BRS' own regiment have come forward to give evidence against him says that there is something more to this than the usual media slander.

I posted the link to the Brereton Report - nowhere does it offer a single direct witness. Balance of probabilities does not cut a real case - 'balance of probabilities' means whoever gets to decidce can be as prejudiced and stupid as he/she likes.

I started off thinking he was likely guilty - but have ended up on the other side.

https://www.defence.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-10/IGADF-Afghanistan-Inquiry...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Bobby.

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Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far
Reply #19 - May 16^th, 2025 at 10:25pm

Belgarion wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 10:19pm:

Normally I would have put this entire saga down to leftist media wanting to do anything they can to discredit the ADF with no regard for the truth. However the fact that members of BRS' own regiment have come forward to give evidence against him says that there is something more to this than the usual media slander.

His own buddies dobbed him in.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far
Reply #20 - May 17^th, 2025 at 5:16am

Bobby. wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 10:25pm:

Belgarion wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 10:19pm:

Normally I would have put this entire saga down to leftist media wanting to do anything they can to discredit the ADF with no regard for the truth. However the fact that members of BRS' own regiment have come forward to give evidence against him says that there is something more to this than the usual media slander.

His own buddies dobbed him in.

WADR - none of them was a direct witness.

Don't even bother with blowing up at a dope who forgot his gun oil and thus endangered everyone - what would Paddy Mayne - like myself part descended from The O'Neill himself - think about that? Sure, a COMBAT officer would quietly say - 'Don't EVER Do That Again! Understood?' ... but the patrol leader would make sure the message got through, right?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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John Smith

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Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far
Reply #21 - May 17^th, 2025 at 9:57am

Frank wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 9:15pm:

John Smith wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 8:48pm:

Frank wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 8:45pm:

John Smith wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 8:32pm:

Frank wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 5:49pm:

Criminalizing the killing of the enemy by soldiers w

you mean killing unarmed people who have their arms tied behind their backs

they're soldiers, not executioners.

Enemy.

We sent them to kill the enemy.
They did. Good.

only in your head. They were sent to defeat the enemy, not kill them. There's a difference

No there isn't.

the fact that war crimes tribunals even exist proves just what a moron you are

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 36342 Gender:	Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far Reply #22 - May 17^th, 2025 at 10:23am Frank doesn't think the rule of law should apply to the people killed because they don't really qualify as people to him. Less than. Anything goes.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far
Reply #23 - May 17^th, 2025 at 10:40am

mothra wrote on May 17^th, 2025 at 10:23am:

Frank doesn't think the rule of law should apply to the people killed because they don't really qualify as people to him.

Less than.

Anything goes.

Which rule of the law was that? Specifically... the one that says 'conviction only on proof positive', which includes first hand eye-witnesses and substantial corroboration....

None of those accusations would hold up if this occurred in Australia - well - maybe among the Keffir or down in Victoria - they're a weird lot - two tier policing, you understand.... now that's against every rule of law....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14114 Armidale Gender:	Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far Reply #24 - May 17^th, 2025 at 11:00am Same as piggy-eyes rape in parliament, no criminal proof but enough to establish as probable. So it's not defamation to say he did the act.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19807 Gender:	Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far Reply #25 - May 17^th, 2025 at 2:42pm John Smith wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 8:48pm: They were sent to defeat the enemy, not kill them. There's a difference Ah, so you mean they go "bang, bang - you're wounded", not "bang, bang, you're dead"?
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Aussie

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Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far
Reply #26 - May 17^th, 2025 at 3:49pm

Daves2017 wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 4:42pm:

Has he lost all available way too appeal now?

He was only a corporal, who is/ was responsible for this force?

Why are they being protected. They need to be named and shamed.

Not just a corporal.

The little I know suggests a terrible lack of command over there.

Undisciplined, poor hygiene, no leadership of any quality.

That’s why the Taliban won in the end.

Don’t blame the soldiers. Look closely at the quality of leadership that allow these crimes to occur.

This is being done ever so cautiously slowly, agonisingly slowly....I believe the Military are holding off until he has exhausted all avenues of appeal before it launches a prosecution, and when that happens, you watch the Officer rats head for their runs.

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Bobby.

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Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far
Reply #27 - May 17^th, 2025 at 4:12pm

Aussie wrote on May 17^th, 2025 at 3:49pm:

This is being done ever so cautiously slowly, agonisingly slowly....I believe the Military are holding off until he has exhausted all avenues of appeal before it launches a prosecution, and when that happens, you watch the Officer rats head for their runs.

Aussie ,
in days of Breaker Morant - Ben would have already got rule 303.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far Reply #28 - May 17^th, 2025 at 7:05pm lee wrote on May 17^th, 2025 at 2:42pm: John Smith wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 8:48pm: They were sent to defeat the enemy, not kill them. There's a difference Ah, so you mean they go "bang, bang - you're wounded", not "bang, bang, you're dead"? bang bang you're a moron
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lee

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Re: Ben loses appeal - costs $35 million so far
Reply #29 - May 17^th, 2025 at 7:19pm

John Smith wrote on May 17^th, 2025 at 7:05pm:

bang bang you're a moron

You were the one said "They were sent to defeat the enemy, not kill them." Dufus.

"This meant that if you were an Afghan riding a motorcycle in a certain fashion near Australian troops, or were seen talking on a radio or mobile phone, you could be considered fair game.

The documents seen by the ABC stress that mere suspicion, or instinct, was not enough, though. There had to be a solid basis for that suspicion, based on knowledge of insurgent “tactics, techniques and procedures”."

.....

"On that occasion, one of the dead men, Mullah Janan Akhund, was seen talking on a radio as an Australian helicopter was about to land, then “assessed by SOTG members to be manoeuvring to gain tactical advantage through a covered position and potentially accessing a cache of weapons”.

He was shot multiple times in the head and chest by two Australians, including Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-11/afghan-files-australias-secretive-rules-o...

And yet only Ben Roberts-Smith was pilloried. I guess it was the VC wotdunnit. Wink

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