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Australia's Involvement In The illegal Iraq War (Read 208 times)
whiteknight
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Australia's Involvement In The illegal Iraq War
Jan 1st, 2025 at 12:13pm
 
2004 cabinet documents reveal deliberations around Australia’s continued involvement in Iraq war   Sad
The release of previously private documents revealed top secret discussions around Australia’s continued involvement in the Iraq War.


January 1, 2025
News.com.au

Former prime minister John Howard has doubled down on his decision to join the US’ invasion of the Iraq war, stating while allied countries did not find the suspected weapons of mass destruction which justified the invasion, the decision was ultimately made in “Australia’s national interest” 

His comments coincide with the National Archive of Australia’s release of a tranche of 2004 cabinet records, which reflect deliberations around Australia’s ongoing commitment to the conflict.

Mr Howard committed Australia to the Iraq War, initiated by US president George W. Bush and justified due to the belief the country possessed WMDs, in 2003.

However searches failed to detect such weapons.   Sad

Former Prime Minister John Howard said Australia’s involvement in Iraq was done in ‘Australia’s national interest’.

Although Mr Howard said that was “disappointing,” he said he still “tenaciously” believes the decisions were made in good faith and based on US and UK intelligence.

“We were wrong, in fact, but not maliciously and I thought some of the criticism, not directed as sharply in Australia … (but) I thought some of the criticism directed at (then UK prime minister) Tony Blair in Britain was very sharp and very vociferous and not justified,” he said.

He added that: “I thought my role was to assess the Australian national interest, and that’s above all what I was sworn to uphold and I thought I pursued that because I thought it was in our national interest to put a curve on the capacity of terrorists to get a hold of weapons of mass destruction … but I also thought it was in Australia’s national interest to listen carefully to assessment of the international realities and situations by our close friends and ally in the Americans”.

Mr Howard also said while allied forces did not find “stockpiles” of WMDs, “we certainly found plenty of evidence of the capacity to rapidly assemble them,” justifying his decision to commit Australian troops to the conflict.

Mr Howard said Australia’s involvement in Iraq was made in-part due to its support for the US, and due to intelligence from allied partners.
Following the initial US invasion, which resulted in the capture of Ba’athist leader Saddam Hussein in December 2003, Iraq transitioned to a new sovereign government which was slated to begin on June 28, 2004.


Cabinet records from the time reflected discussions around Australia’s continued involvement in the conflict, which was marked by insurgency from Ba’ath nationalists, Islamic Sunni, and Shia groups.

In one piece of correspondence released by the NAA, then defence minister Robert Hill wrote to Mr Howard on February 5, 2024 requesting a discussion on the “possibility of our deploying further ADF personnel to train the Iraqi army and Australia’s posture, most broadly, in Iraq”.

Mr Hill said developments in Iraq were “at a critical stage” with the country set to transition to a sovereign government from the US-controlled Coalition Provisional Authority following the 2003 Iraq War.

He added that an increased Australian defence presence would “play an important role in maintaining and enhancing Australia’s national interests in Iraq during the transition and beyond”.

It would also be a “demonstrable example” of Australia’s commitment to the US alliance, Mr Hill wrote.

Ultimately the National Security Committee agreed to deploy an additional 53 Australian Defence Force personnel to help train the Iraqi army, and committed to the continued presence of Australian warships, which was funded through the $644.7m given to the Australian Defence Department from 2004 to 2007 for Operations Bastille, Falconer and Catalyst).

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Dnarever
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Re: Australia's Involvement In The illegal Iraq War
Reply #1 - Jan 1st, 2025 at 12:39pm
 
Quote:
Although Mr Howard said that was “disappointing,” he said he still “tenaciously” believes the decisions were made in good faith and based on US and UK intelligence.

“We were wrong, in fact, but not maliciously and I thought some of the criticism, not directed as sharply in Australia


Almost nobody who objectively looked at the facts believed that there was any evidence to support the existence on WMD's.

The proof basically came down to a satellite picture of a rusted out truck parked in front of a tent. This was less proof of WMD's than it was that Elvis was alive.

Thay had some import of metals that turned out to be not the correct type for weapons.  They had statements from know to be not credible witnesses. In short they had absolutely nothing. They even had to instruct their own intelligence to stop telling them the truth. The US,UK and AU intelligence agencies had all reported to their governments that they could not confirm WMD's.

In short WMD's were more a wish then a fact and they all knew it.
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Leroy
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Re: Australia's Involvement In The illegal Iraq War
Reply #2 - Jan 1st, 2025 at 12:42pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 1st, 2025 at 12:39pm:
Quote:
Although Mr Howard said that was “disappointing,” he said he still “tenaciously” believes the decisions were made in good faith and based on US and UK intelligence.

“We were wrong, in fact, but not maliciously and I thought some of the criticism, not directed as sharply in Australia


Almost nobody who objectively looked at the facts believed that there was any evidence to support the existence on WMD's.

The proof basically came down to a satellite picture of a rusted out truck parked in front of a tent. This was less proof of WMD's than it was that Elvis was alive.

Thay had some import of metals that turned out to be not the correct type for weapons.  They had statements from know to be not credible witnesses. In short they had absolutely nothing. They even had to instruct their own intelligence to stop telling them the truth. The US,UK and AU intelligence agencies had all reported to their governments that they could not confirm WMD's.

In short WMD's were more a wish then a fact and they all knew it.


At the time had Saddam used sarin gas on the Kurds?.
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Dnarever
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Re: Australia's Involvement In The illegal Iraq War
Reply #3 - Jan 1st, 2025 at 1:16pm
 
Leroy wrote on Jan 1st, 2025 at 12:42pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 1st, 2025 at 12:39pm:
Quote:
Although Mr Howard said that was “disappointing,” he said he still “tenaciously” believes the decisions were made in good faith and based on US and UK intelligence.

“We were wrong, in fact, but not maliciously and I thought some of the criticism, not directed as sharply in Australia


Almost nobody who objectively looked at the facts believed that there was any evidence to support the existence on WMD's.

The proof basically came down to a satellite picture of a rusted out truck parked in front of a tent. This was less proof of WMD's than it was that Elvis was alive.

Thay had some import of metals that turned out to be not the correct type for weapons.  They had statements from know to be not credible witnesses. In short they had absolutely nothing. They even had to instruct their own intelligence to stop telling them the truth. The US,UK and AU intelligence agencies had all reported to their governments that they could not confirm WMD's.

In short WMD's were more a wish then a fact and they all knew it.


At the time had Saddam used sarin gas on the Kurds?.


Quote:
At the time


No incorrect that was in 1991 thirteen years earlier. This gas had long expired as had the destroyed equipment /technology and scientists used to create it.

We watched the building where the Iraq weapons were made for the first Iraq war burn on TV, it was the building that burned blue one day orange the next and purple the day after etc, Many of the scientists involved died. The remaining scientists were mainly doing confirmed research in other areas and many had left Iraq.

Iraq needed to be producing new WMD's for them to have them for the second war. There was no evidence to suggest this manufacturing was happening, All the scientists were accounted for their was no known research facilities there was no record of imported material or anything else.

All they had was the suspicion that Elvis was living in a tent surrounded by sand.
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Leroy
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Re: Australia's Involvement In The illegal Iraq War
Reply #4 - Jan 1st, 2025 at 1:24pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 1st, 2025 at 1:16pm:
Leroy wrote on Jan 1st, 2025 at 12:42pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 1st, 2025 at 12:39pm:
Quote:
Although Mr Howard said that was “disappointing,” he said he still “tenaciously” believes the decisions were made in good faith and based on US and UK intelligence.

“We were wrong, in fact, but not maliciously and I thought some of the criticism, not directed as sharply in Australia


Almost nobody who objectively looked at the facts believed that there was any evidence to support the existence on WMD's.

The proof basically came down to a satellite picture of a rusted out truck parked in front of a tent. This was less proof of WMD's than it was that Elvis was alive.

Thay had some import of metals that turned out to be not the correct type for weapons.  They had statements from know to be not credible witnesses. In short they had absolutely nothing. They even had to instruct their own intelligence to stop telling them the truth. The US,UK and AU intelligence agencies had all reported to their governments that they could not confirm WMD's.

In short WMD's were more a wish then a fact and they all knew it.


At the time had Saddam used sarin gas on the Kurds?.


Quote:
At the time


No incorrect that was in 1991 thirteen years earlier. This gas had long expired as had the destroyed equipment /technology and scientists used to create it.

We watched the building where the Iraq weapons were made for the first Iraq war burn on TV, it was the building that burned blue one day orange the next and purple the day after etc, Many of the scientists involved died. The remaining scientists were mainly doing confirmed research in other areas and many had left Iraq.

Iraq needed to be producing new WMD's for them to have them for the second war. There was no evidence to suggest this manufacturing was happening, All the scientists were accounted for their was no known research facilities there was no record of imported material or anything else.

All they had was the suspicion that Elvis was living in a tent surrounded by sand.


So at the time Saddam had used WMD against his own citizens killing more than 5,000 in one town with gas dropped from airforce planes.

Had at the time Saddam attacked and ransacked Kuwait?
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Trump derangement syndrome
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Dnarever
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Re: Australia's Involvement In The illegal Iraq War
Reply #5 - Jan 1st, 2025 at 1:40pm
 
Leroy wrote on Jan 1st, 2025 at 1:24pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 1st, 2025 at 1:16pm:
Leroy wrote on Jan 1st, 2025 at 12:42pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 1st, 2025 at 12:39pm:
Quote:
Although Mr Howard said that was “disappointing,” he said he still “tenaciously” believes the decisions were made in good faith and based on US and UK intelligence.

“We were wrong, in fact, but not maliciously and I thought some of the criticism, not directed as sharply in Australia


Almost nobody who objectively looked at the facts believed that there was any evidence to support the existence on WMD's.

The proof basically came down to a satellite picture of a rusted out truck parked in front of a tent. This was less proof of WMD's than it was that Elvis was alive.

Thay had some import of metals that turned out to be not the correct type for weapons.  They had statements from know to be not credible witnesses. In short they had absolutely nothing. They even had to instruct their own intelligence to stop telling them the truth. The US,UK and AU intelligence agencies had all reported to their governments that they could not confirm WMD's.

In short WMD's were more a wish then a fact and they all knew it.


At the time had Saddam used sarin gas on the Kurds?.


Quote:
At the time


No incorrect that was in 1991 thirteen years earlier. This gas had long expired as had the destroyed equipment /technology and scientists used to create it.

We watched the building where the Iraq weapons were made for the first Iraq war burn on TV, it was the building that burned blue one day orange the next and purple the day after etc, Many of the scientists involved died. The remaining scientists were mainly doing confirmed research in other areas and many had left Iraq.

Iraq needed to be producing new WMD's for them to have them for the second war. There was no evidence to suggest this manufacturing was happening, All the scientists were accounted for their was no known research facilities there was no record of imported material or anything else.

All they had was the suspicion that Elvis was living in a tent surrounded by sand.


So at the time Saddam had used WMD against his own citizens killing more than 5,000 in one town with gas dropped from airforce planes.

Had at the time Saddam attacked and ransacked Kuwait?


That was 1990/1 The US attacked Iraq in 2003 over a decade later. We are talking here about what happened 12 / 13 years later. Sarin has a shelf life of several weeks.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Australia's Involvement In The illegal Iraq War
Reply #6 - Jan 1st, 2025 at 8:46pm
 
Australia became involved in the Iraq war because one simple fact - fear.  Canberra feared losing the protection of the US.  Without US  military might it was felt that we would be at the mercy of China.   Howard relied on the Intelligence assessment about Iraq's supposed quest for WMD, not realising that the Intelligence assessment was based on a flawed US assessment.  The US's assessment was based on a flawed assessment of Iraq's intentions.  Iraq wanted to be considered a world player and played up it's ability to create  WMDs because it feared Iran's intentions in the region.  Basically it played on Washington's paranoia about WMDs and so the world watched as the US and the UK and Australia decided to invade.  Was it the wrong decision?  Undoubtedly.  But we must remember the world was a different place in those days. Would we make the same mistakes?  Undoubtedly, given the same circumstances.  We must remember that we are dealing with a paranoid national leader who is charged with keeping American safe.  No one is safe.  Better to be on the inside of the tent, pissing out, rather than on the outside pissing in.  We signed up to the US side in 1942.  Blame it all on John Curtin and Bob Menzies.
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Dnarever
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Re: Australia's Involvement In The illegal Iraq War
Reply #7 - Jan 1st, 2025 at 8:51pm
 
Quote:
Former prime minister John Howard has doubled down on his decision to join the US’ invasion of the Iraq war


People forget that Howard was always best known for his lies.
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