Australian Politics Forum - First results are in.

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 14865
Gender: male

Re: First results are in.
Reply #120 - Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:04pm

Frank wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:57pm:

Goose wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:26pm:

In this purported free trade world economy of no tariffs, where all the world benefits from no tariffs, have a guess how many countries actually have tariffs in place, right now?
Go on guess..............

The truth is, it's a crock of poo!!

True when everyone play ss by the rules.
But China and others don't.

China was admitted to the WTO and played by the rules.

(google)

China became a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO) on December 11, 2001. This came after 14 years of negotiations and significant changes to China's economy.
The U.S.-China bilateral agreement, reached on November 15, 1999, was a key step in the final agreement. The agreement was signed by China and the United States on November 11, 2001, and China deposited its instrument of ratification with the WTO Director-General immediately after.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 116439
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: First results are in.
Reply #121 - Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:07pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:45pm:

Correct - mainstream economic orthodoxy, that is.

But Trump's tariffs will increase inflation at home, worsening the cost of living crisis in the US.

But without tariffs our manufacturers are forced to compete
with China where they pay their workers a bowl of rice per day
and have no health and safety laws - which are expensive.

We couldn't do it and as a result we lost nearly all our manufacturing jobs in Australia.
Melbourne used to be a giant factory but it is no more.
Multi-nationals will go to another country to save just a few pennies per item they produce.
Factory after factory closed down here ever since the mid 1980s.

Not only that - China swamps the market with Govt. subsidized goods
if they are more expensive than their competitors.
It's called dumping and is done to destroy competitors.

That's why BHP closed most of their steel mills.
China also sold cheap but shoddy steel full of Boron that cracks
and Western countries made bridges out of it which will collapse.

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 14865
Gender: male

Re: First results are in.
Reply #122 - Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:11pm

Frank wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:59pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:45pm:

Goose wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:26pm:

In this purported free trade world economy of no tariffs,

which in mainstream economics is supposed to ensure the greatest economic progress for everyone....

Quote:

where all the world benefits from no tariffs, have a guess how many countries actually have tariffs in place, right now?
Go on guess..............

No need to guess: the poorest countries are attempting to stay alive via tariffs.

(Google)

Which countries have tariffs?
20 Countries With the Highest Tariffs
Guinea. Tariff Rate (2020): 12.20% ...
Nigeria. Tariff Rate (2020): 12.40% ...
Vanuatu. Tariff Rate (2020): 12.70% ...
Antigua and Barbuda. Tariff Rate (2020): 13.10% ...
Solomon Islands. Tariff Rate (2020): 13.60% ...
Venezuela. Tariff Rate (2020): 14.10% ...
Sierra Leone. Tariff Rate (2020): 14.10% ...
Nauru.
More items...•20 Mar 2024

...

...you get the picture.

But the US is the richest country....

Quote:

The truth is, it's crock of poo?

Correct - mainstream economic orthodoxy, that is.

But Trump's tariffs will increase inflation at home, worsening the cost of living crisis in the US.

China cheats.
They should not be in the WTO. Tariffs are a way to adjust for their cheating and dishiponesty.

State subsidies are not "cheating".

Even Biden understood: if you can't beat them, join them, hence his massive IRA and CHIPS acts which are state subsidization of local industry.

Back to top

IP Logged

Goose Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 630	Re: First results are in. Reply #123 - Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:20pm https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/list-of-tariffs-by-country
Back to top	Capture_065.JPG (26 KB \| 10 ) IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 56155
Gender: male

Re: First results are in.
Reply #124 - Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:20pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:04pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:57pm:

Goose wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:26pm:

In this purported free trade world economy of no tariffs, where all the world benefits from no tariffs, have a guess how many countries actually have tariffs in place, right now?
Go on guess..............

The truth is, it's a crock of poo!!

True when everyone play ss by the rules.
But China and others don't.

China was admitted to the WTO and played by the rules.

(google)

China became a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO) on December 11, 2001. This came after 14 years of negotiations and significant changes to China's economy.
The U.S.-China bilateral agreement, reached on November 15, 1999, was a key step in the final agreement. The agreement was signed by China and the United States on November 11, 2001, and China deposited its instrument of ratification with the WTO Director-General immediately after.

China engages in widespread cheating in its trade practices, including not only high tariffs, domestic content requirements, and other traditional forms of protectionism, but also rigged regulations that erect trade barriers by favoring Chinese companies and outright theft of foreign IP.
https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/disciplining-chinas-trade-practices-wto-how-wto-complaints-can-help-make-china-more#introduction

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 14865
Gender: male

Re: First results are in.
Reply #125 - Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:34pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:07pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:45pm:

Correct - mainstream economic orthodoxy, that is.

But Trump's tariffs will increase inflation at home, worsening the cost of living crisis in the US.

But without tariffs our manufacturers are forced to compete
with China where they pay their workers a bowl of rice per day
and have no health and safety laws - which are expensive.

Correct: that's why (the then low wage) Japan destroyed Detroit in the 70s with better value Japanese cars, and now low wage China is destroying the US.

Trump can only protect the US with a trade war (tariffs), but it won't work because inflation will rise in the US.

Quote:

We couldn't do it and as a result we lost nearly all our manufacturing jobs in Australia.
Melbourne used to be a giant factory but it is no more.
Multi-nationals will go to another country to save just a few pennies per item they produce.
Factory after factory closed down here ever since the mid 1980s.

Correct, but China's imports of Oz iron ore and coal kept Oz viable whereas the US can't rely on exports.

Quote:

Not only that - China swamps the market with Govt. subsidized goods if they are more expensive than their competitors. [quote]

Sloppy analysis; China started subsidizing investment in EVs a decade ago, and now its building the best value and most advanced EVs in the world. Even GM is partnering with CATL to build batteries using the latter's know how.

[quote]It's called dumping and is done to destroy competitors.

Biased narrative: it's called superior manufacturing; "overcapacity" is the Western myth. The world needs EVs, the problem is the Global South can't aford them, and the G7 can't compete with them.

Quote:

That's why BHP closed most of their steel mills.
China also sold cheap but shoddy steel full of Boron that cracks
and Western countries made bridges out of it which will collapse.

See - your blind-ideology narrative; China has built the world largest HS railway network requiring hundreds of bridges, the steel must be top quality.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:40pm by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 14865
Gender: male

Re: First results are in.
Reply #126 - Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:53pm

Frank wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:20pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:04pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:57pm:

Goose wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:26pm:

In this purported free trade world economy of no tariffs, where all the world benefits from no tariffs, have a guess how many countries actually have tariffs in place, right now?
Go on guess..............

The truth is, it's a crock of poo!!

True when everyone play ss by the rules.
But China and others don't.

China was admitted to the WTO and played by the rules.

(google)

China became a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO) on December 11, 2001. This came after 14 years of negotiations and significant changes to China's economy.
The U.S.-China bilateral agreement, reached on November 15, 1999, was a key step in the final agreement. The agreement was signed by China and the United States on November 11, 2001, and China deposited its instrument of ratification with the WTO Director-General immediately after.

China engages in widespread cheating in its trade practices, including not only high tariffs, domestic content requirements, and other traditional forms of protectionism, but also rigged regulations that erect trade barriers by favoring Chinese companies and outright theft of foreign IP.
https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/disciplining-chinas-trade-practices-wto-how-wto-complaints-can-help-make-china-more#introduction

Er.... the US is applying the highest tarrifs on EVs, Apple phones are bought in China without tariffs, and Trump has forced China to rely on its own creativity re IP for IT and AI.

(PS, Cato is a RW nut-job outfit...

Cato Institute is an American libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, DC. It was founded in 1977 by Ed Crane, Murray Rothbard, and Charles Koch..the notorious billionaire Koch brothers...

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 116439 Melbourne Gender:	Re: First results are in. Reply #127 - Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:57pm TGD, Quote: See - your blind-ideology narrative; China has built the world largest HS railway network requiring hundreds of bridges, the steel must be top quality. They haven't used their inferior steel full of Boron - that was for export markets to Western suckers.
Back to top	IP Logged

Marla

Gold Member

Offline

A joint a day keeps the
MAGA away

Posts: 14569
Colorado
Gender: female

Re: First results are in.
Reply #128 - Nov 7^th, 2024 at 12:39am

Trump has just turned America into a RuZZian satellite, enacting and securing Putin's dreams of world domination.

We'll eventually know about many, but not all, of the voter suppression shenanigans before during , and after active voting. We know RuZZia sent dozens of bomb threats. Pennsylvania 's draconian laws discouraged voting. Ohio only allowed those with updated ID to vote. Georgia threw out or disallowed registrations, and allowed thousands of voter challenges based on perceived affiliation. Still, the usual suspects will gleefully seek to blame all voter suppression on Jill Stein- while they retire to enjoy their Trump tax cuts. I wonder about hacking and vote switching in electronic ballot states. It still seems mind – boggling that thousands could have voted for reproductive rights AND for Donald Trump.

Still, it's shocking how many believed MAGA lies about immigrants and voted for Trump to "keep them safe". I've talked with liberals who bought those lies . We underestimated how knee-jerk racist so many are. German voters believed that Hitler would "protect them", too.

As for you kangaroo rooters, you're now on your own. Trump will not protect or save you when China decides to invade your trendy little continent. Cheesy

Back to top

I like takin' Tuinal. It keeps me edgy and mean. I'm a teenage schizoid I'm a teenage dope fiend

IP Logged

ProudKangaroo

Gold Member

Offline

The Sandstorm is coming
🎵Doo doo doo doo🎵

Posts: 21748
Meeanjin (Brisbane)

Re: First results are in.
Reply #129 - Nov 7^th, 2024 at 7:28am

Bobby. wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:02pm:

May Q help Trump to start the vengeance.

What an admirable platform to rally behind…

The same people who condemned “deplorables” and sneered at “garbage people” are now openly cheering for Trump to exact retribution against Americans who dared to disagree with him. The irony is striking: those who’ve spent years decrying Biden and Harris for “dividing the nation” are now brandishing their own torches and pitchforks, demanding vengeance against fellow citizens simply for casting a different vote.

The hypocrisy is laid bare and he's not even in the oval yet... They are no longer content with rhetoric, they’re calling for punitive action against dissenters, proving that the division they once blamed on others was, perhaps, a projection of their own inclinations.

It's insane.

It's Trump's America.

As they burn, we lulz, and hope the flames don't escape and burn us too.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 116439
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: First results are in.
Reply #130 - Nov 7^th, 2024 at 9:01am

ProudKangaroo wrote on Nov 7^th, 2024 at 7:28am:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:02pm:

May Q help Trump to start the vengeance.

What an admirable platform to rally behind…

The same people who condemned “deplorables” and sneered at “garbage people” are now openly cheering for Trump to exact retribution against Americans who dared to disagree with him. The irony is striking: those who’ve spent years decrying Biden and Harris for “dividing the nation” are now brandishing their own torches and pitchforks, demanding vengeance against fellow citizens simply for casting a different vote.

The hypocrisy is laid bare and he's not even in the oval yet... They are no longer content with rhetoric, they’re calling for punitive action against dissenters, proving that the division they once blamed on others was, perhaps, a projection of their own inclinations.

It's insane.

It's Trump's America.

As they burn, we lulz, and hope the flames don't escape and burn us too.

It's what the people voted for:

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 56155
Gender: male

Re: First results are in.
Reply #131 - Nov 7^th, 2024 at 10:26am

Trump Wins 3rd Election In A Row

"We did it, and no one has ever seen anything like it in the history of mankind, or maybe even the world," said an elated Trump to supporters. "Three elections in a row. We call that a HAT TRICK of elections. Very hard to do, no one's ever done it before, but we did. So incredible and very special."

Experts are already predicting that this unprecedented 3-election streak will lead to the deaths of several billion people from Nazis, climate change, and no abortions. Casualties in metropolitan areas and newsrooms across the country are reportedly mounting up already, as the entire staff of the New York Times died over three times in a row when they were forced to announce the news.

At publishing time, President-Elect Trump had assumed his shotgun seat in Garbage Truck One and headed back to his house in D.C.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 116439 Melbourne Gender:	Re: First results are in. Reply #132 - Nov 7^th, 2024 at 10:32am "Total Electoral BLOODBATH" Donald Trump DEFEATS Kamala Harris!
Back to top	IP Logged

Sir lastnail

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 30900
Gender: male

Re: First results are in.
Reply #133 - Nov 7^th, 2024 at 12:01pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 11:11pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:59pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:45pm:

Goose wrote on Nov 6^th, 2024 at 10:26pm:

In this purported free trade world economy of no tariffs,

which in mainstream economics is supposed to ensure the greatest economic progress for everyone....

Quote:

where all the world benefits from no tariffs, have a guess how many countries actually have tariffs in place, right now?
Go on guess..............

No need to guess: the poorest countries are attempting to stay alive via tariffs.

(Google)

Which countries have tariffs?
20 Countries With the Highest Tariffs
Guinea. Tariff Rate (2020): 12.20% ...
Nigeria. Tariff Rate (2020): 12.40% ...
Vanuatu. Tariff Rate (2020): 12.70% ...
Antigua and Barbuda. Tariff Rate (2020): 13.10% ...
Solomon Islands. Tariff Rate (2020): 13.60% ...
Venezuela. Tariff Rate (2020): 14.10% ...
Sierra Leone. Tariff Rate (2020): 14.10% ...
Nauru.
More items...•20 Mar 2024

...

...you get the picture.

But the US is the richest country....

Quote:

The truth is, it's crock of poo?

Correct - mainstream economic orthodoxy, that is.

But Trump's tariffs will increase inflation at home, worsening the cost of living crisis in the US.

China cheats.
They should not be in the WTO. Tariffs are a way to adjust for their cheating and dishiponesty.

State subsidies are not "cheating".

Even Biden understood: if you can't beat them, join them, hence his massive IRA and CHIPS acts which are state subsidization of local industry.

Back to top

"If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region..." - Benjamin Netanyahu in 1995

IP Logged