Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Send Topic Print
Free Speech More Myth Than Reality. (Read 4126 times)
chimera
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 13182
Armidale
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #30 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 11:21am
 
Social engineering?
'Sujatha Fernandes is a storyteller, writer, scholar, and teacher. She is a Professor of Sociology at the University of Sydney,.. Her academic, activist, and literary work explores social and labor movements, participatory media and art, global Black cultures, migrant workers, and climate storytelling.'

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
ProudKangaroo
Gold Member
*****
Offline


The Sandstorm is coming
🎵Doo doo doo doo🎵

Posts: 21248
Meeanjin (Brisbane)
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #31 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 11:35am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 14th, 2024 at 11:00am:
ProudKangaroo wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 12:08pm:
It is profoundly disheartening, considering your tenure in academia, to witness such a glaring lack of intellectual integrity.

Despite decades of experience in a senior academic role, it appears that intellectual dishonesty remains prevalent. 
What could have transpired to lead to this?
...
As an aside to the broader discussion on education and our differing views, it is pertinent to recognise that, at least within the Australian context, our right to free speech is not explicitly guaranteed but merely implied.


If an engineering academic recklessly or deliberately misled students about how to build a bridge, Australians would not just expect that academic to be sacked; they would want to know, and would want every academic to know, that intellectual standards were being rigorously enforced.
[Clipped, too long to quote]


I would have assumed that someone with decades of experience in academia would at least know how to properly cite The Australian when regurgitating its talking points.

The crux of the issue remains that higher education isn’t about dictating what to think but rather fostering the ability to think, to critically evaluate content and hone the skills necessary to distinguish fact from fiction.

It seems you may have bypassed those essential lessons, perhaps even missing your entire first year, where students are typically introduced to proper citation practices, academic writing, and fundamental research methods.

Your contributions here have certainly failed to exhibit any of these foundational skills.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
chimera
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 13182
Armidale
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #32 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 11:41am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 14th, 2024 at 11:00am:
Professor Sujatha Fernandes, who told her students that reports of Hamas committing mass rapes on October 7 were “fake news”,

Then maybe the VC, Fernandes, Frank and editors could produce evidence for their freely held adjectival opinions.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 54265
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #33 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 12:26pm
 
ProudKangaroo wrote on Sep 14th, 2024 at 11:35am:
Frank wrote on Sep 14th, 2024 at 11:00am:
ProudKangaroo wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 12:08pm:
It is profoundly disheartening, considering your tenure in academia, to witness such a glaring lack of intellectual integrity.

Despite decades of experience in a senior academic role, it appears that intellectual dishonesty remains prevalent. 
What could have transpired to lead to this?
...
As an aside to the broader discussion on education and our differing views, it is pertinent to recognise that, at least within the Australian context, our right to free speech is not explicitly guaranteed but merely implied.


If an engineering academic recklessly or deliberately misled students about how to build a bridge, Australians would not just expect that academic to be sacked; they would want to know, and would want every academic to know, that intellectual standards were being rigorously enforced.
[Clipped, too long to quote]


I would have assumed that someone with decades of experience in academia would at least know how to properly cite The Australian when regurgitating its talking points.

The crux of the issue remains that higher education isn’t about dictating what to think but rather fostering the ability to think, to critically evaluate content and hone the skills necessary to distinguish fact from fiction.

It seems you may have bypassed those essential lessons, perhaps even missing your entire first year, where students are typically introduced to proper citation practices, academic writing, and fundamental research methods.

Your contributions here have certainly failed to exhibit any of these foundational skills.

But what mattered to the activists was that Derrida, Foucault and Bourdieu argued that scholarship was inherently political. “Objectivity”, they contended, was a mere fig leaf for the interests of the ruling class.

Properly considered, the truth of a claim depended neither on how it was derived nor on its relationship to reality. It depended, wrote vastly influential American postmodernist Hayden White, on whether it was made from the right moral – that is, political – “standpoint”.

The way was therefore open to the development of what is now known as “standpoint epistemology”, which, in its most popular version, asserts that a proposition’s truth depends on the identity of its proponent. That is, of course, scarcely an inch away from Stalinism’s “proletarian science”, not to mention the Nazis’ “Aryan mathematics”. And if that epistemology was good enough for Stalin and Hitler, why wouldn’t it be good enough for Hamas and its taxpayer-funded acolytes?

That Fernandes channels Blanche Dubois in Tennessee Williams’s A Streetcar Named Desire is therefore unsurprising: “I don’t tell truth. I tell what ought to be truth. And if that is sinful, then let me be damned for it!”



Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 54265
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #34 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 12:29pm
 
Mark Scott led the ABC, where truth rarely stood in the way of an ideological story. He now leads USyd where the same thing applies.
Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
chimera
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 13182
Armidale
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #35 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 1:09pm
 
Do we have evidence for mass rapes by Hamas?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 19666
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #36 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 1:46pm
 
ProudKangaroo wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 9:55am:
While it is true that the education system is shaped and influenced by those in positions of power, it is important to recognise that higher education, particularly at the university level, is where the cultivation of critical thinking is most rigorously pursued. Universities serve as environments where individuals are not merely encouraged but required to challenge established ideas, question underlying assumptions, and engage with a diverse array of perspectives.



Most of our politicians are university educated, even the unionists. It would be the same in France. But they have just fined a news company for having the temerity to broadcast "climate scepticism" unchallenged.

https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/07/12/frances-cnews-fined-for-broadcasting-c...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 54265
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #37 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 2:02pm
 
Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
chimera
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 13182
Armidale
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #38 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 4:00pm
 
Yes there was rape of a number.  The evidence doesn't go beyond that. What is 'mass rape'?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 54265
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #39 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 7:45pm
 
chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2024 at 4:00pm:
Yes there was rape of a number.  The evidence doesn't go beyond that. What is 'mass rape'?


How many are you OK with?



https://oct7map.com/women

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-s...

Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Offline


\/ Peace man!

Posts: 17184
Northern NSW
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #40 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 8:21pm
 
chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2024 at 4:00pm:
Yes there was rape of a number.  The evidence doesn't go beyond that. What is 'mass rape'?


Do we have numbers involved that make the difference between mass rapes or gang rapes and plain old rape? Can one be a gang? One be a mass(of people)?
Where is your line drawn?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
chimera
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 13182
Armidale
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #41 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 8:51pm
 
mass 1.
a large body of matter with no definite shape.
"the sun broke out from behind a mass of clouds"
Similar: pile  heap stack clump cloud bunch bundle
2. a large number of people or objects crowded together.
"a mass of cyclists".

massacre   : an indiscriminate and brutal slaughter of many people.
"the attack was described as a cold-blooded massacre"
wholesale slaughter  mass slaughter mass destruction.

HOW LONG IS A PIECE OF STRING? definition: 1. said when you cannot answer a question about the length, size, amount, etc. of something.
How long is a piece of string?
The Australian Association of Mathematics Teachers
18 Apr 2013 — Measure the string using a tape measure and compare the estimate to the exact length of the string.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Offline


\/ Peace man!

Posts: 17184
Northern NSW
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #42 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 8:53pm
 
chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2024 at 8:51pm:
mass 1.
a large body of matter with no definite shape.
"the sun broke out from behind a mass of clouds"
Similar: pile  heap stack clump cloud bunch bundle
2. a large number of people or objects crowded together.
"a mass of cyclists".

massacre   : an indiscriminate and brutal slaughter of many people.
"the attack was described as a cold-blooded massacre"
wholesale slaughter  mass slaughter mass destruction.

HOW LONG IS A PIECE OF STRING? definition: 1. said when you cannot answer a question about the length, size, amount, etc. of something.
How long is a piece of string?
The Australian Association of Mathematics Teachers
18 Apr 2013 — Measure the string using a tape measure and compare the estimate to the exact length of the string.


Exactly why I defined mass(of people) not mass(physics).
2. seems to be the right choice in this situation.

Now, where is your line?

Quote:
In theories of particle physics based on string theory, the characteristic length scale of strings is assumed to be on the order of the Planck length, or 10−35 meters, the scale at which the effects of quantum gravity are believed to become significant.[15https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory
Back to top
« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2024 at 8:59pm by Setanta »  
 
IP Logged
 
chimera
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 13182
Armidale
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #43 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 8:58pm
 
About the middle of the piece of string.
Man drives car and is given speeding ticket for 'travelling fairly quickly'. Judge says 'pay us a few dollars'.  Man says 'OK and I'll buy your house for a few more'.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Offline


\/ Peace man!

Posts: 17184
Northern NSW
Gender: male
Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #44 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 9:04pm
 
chimera wrote on Sep 14th, 2024 at 8:58pm:
About the middle of the piece of string.
Man drives car and is given speeding ticket for 'travelling fairly quickly'. Judge says 'pay us a few dollars'.  Man says 'OK and I'll buy your house for a few more'.


So somewhere between 5 and 18 metres?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Send Topic Print