Australian Politics Forum - American Freedom

thegreatdivide

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Re: American Freedom
Reply #15 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 12:42pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 29^th, 2024 at 10:47pm:

Despite the American obsession with freedom, the US ranks a lowly 15th on the 2024 world freedom index.

ChatGPT reports that the reasons for the relatively low ranking is due to:

1. Political polarization and partisanship, which can undermine democratic processes.

2. Press freedom concerns, including threats and hostility toward journalists.

3. Civil liberties issues, such as privacy concerns related to surveillance and law enforcement practices.

4. Disparities in criminal justice, including systemic racism and mass incarceration.

5. Voting rights issues, including voter suppression and gerrymandering.

6. Economic inequality, which can affect access to opportunities and influence in the political system.

Excellent post.

I didn't think I would be agreeing with Meister in oppositon to Marla.

Poilitics makes strange bedfellows.

I might take a trip to China and check it out, maybe see a successful version of the 'socialist revolution' which went wrong in Russia.

Meanwhile poor Marla is obviously hyper-sensitive about the crippling hyper-partisanship in the US.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: American Freedom
Reply #16 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:11pm

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 12:05pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 8:49am:

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 8:42am:

Quote:

Despite the American obsession with freedom, the US ranks a lowly 15th on the 2024 world freedom index.

15th is pretty good. There are a lot of free countries today.

Not to Americans, it ain't. They think they invented it.

The world owes a lot to America. How free do you think we would be if they had not intervened in WWI and WWII?

Ah, counterfactuals!

OK.

If the US had not intervened in 'The Great War', the European powers may have bloodied themselves to a stalemate, done a deal, ended the war and gone home. No hyper-reparations demand on Germany. No collapse of the status quo. No collapse of Tsarist Russia. No Lenin. No Bolshevik revolution.No Stalin. No rise of Nazism. No holocaust. No WW2. No atomic bomb. No arms race...

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49928 At my desk.	Re: American Freedom Reply #17 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:16pm Quote: may have bloodied themselves to a stalemate Is that the most optimistic outcome you could come up with?
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Bobby.

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Re: American Freedom
Reply #18 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:21pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:11pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 12:05pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 8:49am:

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 8:42am:

Quote:

Despite the American obsession with freedom, the US ranks a lowly 15th on the 2024 world freedom index.

15th is pretty good. There are a lot of free countries today.

Not to Americans, it ain't. They think they invented it.

The world owes a lot to America. How free do you think we would be if they had not intervened in WWI and WWII?

Ah, counterfactuals!

OK.

If the US had not intervened in 'The Great War', the European powers may have bloodied themselves to a stalemate, done a deal, ended the war and gone home. No hyper-reparations demand on Germany. No collapse of the status quo. No collapse of Tsarist Russia. No Lenin. No Bolshevik revolution.No Stalin. No rise of Nazism. No holocaust. No WW2. No atomic bomb. No arms race...

And you'd be speaking Japanese.

Our army was training with broomsticks as there weren't enough rifles. Roll Eyes

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: American Freedom
Reply #19 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:28pm

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:16pm:

Quote:

may have bloodied themselves to a stalemate

Is that the most optimistic outcome you could come up with?

They were all close to exhaustion as it was by 1917 - A typical European end to European hostilities in 1917 - 1918 would likely not have included harsh reparations on Germany, the more likely survival of Tsarist Russia. No Bolshevik revolution. No Nazism, no Holocaust, no WW2...

The boost that the US gave to Allied arrogance led to the Allies stomping on Germany causing the collapse of the central powers' monarchies, which evoked deep German / Austro-Hungarian resentment and the rise of fascist popularity within the former central powers.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: American Freedom
Reply #20 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:29pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:11pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 12:05pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 8:49am:

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 8:42am:

Quote:

Despite the American obsession with freedom, the US ranks a lowly 15th on the 2024 world freedom index.

15th is pretty good. There are a lot of free countries today.

Not to Americans, it ain't. They think they invented it.

The world owes a lot to America. How free do you think we would be if they had not intervened in WWI and WWII?

Ah, counterfactuals!

OK.

If the US had not intervened in 'The Great War', the European powers may have bloodied themselves to a stalemate, done a deal, ended the war and gone home. No hyper-reparations demand on Germany. No collapse of the status quo. No collapse of Tsarist Russia. No Lenin. No Bolshevik revolution.No Stalin. No rise of Nazism. No holocaust. No WW2. No atomic bomb. No arms race...

And you'd be speaking Japanese.

Our army was training with broomsticks as there weren't enough rifles. Roll Eyes

Not if there wasn't a WW2.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: American Freedom
Reply #21 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:44pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

I might take a trip to China and check it out, maybe see a successful version of the 'socialist revolution' which went wrong in Russia.

Good luck with that.

China is edging closer to demographic and economic collapse.

You might be there to witness another historically typical Chinese dynastic collapse.

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Bobby.

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Re: American Freedom
Reply #22 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:55pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:11pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 12:05pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 8:49am:

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 8:42am:

Quote:

Despite the American obsession with freedom, the US ranks a lowly 15th on the 2024 world freedom index.

15th is pretty good. There are a lot of free countries today.

Not to Americans, it ain't. They think they invented it.

The world owes a lot to America. How free do you think we would be if they had not intervened in WWI and WWII?

Ah, counterfactuals!

OK.

If the US had not intervened in 'The Great War', the European powers may have bloodied themselves to a stalemate, done a deal, ended the war and gone home. No hyper-reparations demand on Germany. No collapse of the status quo. No collapse of Tsarist Russia. No Lenin. No Bolshevik revolution.No Stalin. No rise of Nazism. No holocaust. No WW2. No atomic bomb. No arms race...

And you'd be speaking Japanese.

Our army was training with broomsticks as there weren't enough rifles. Roll Eyes

Not if there wasn't a WW2.

But there was a WW2 in SEA.
The Japs had invaded China long before 1939 and were on their way here too.

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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 16619 In your happy place Gender:	Re: American Freedom Reply #23 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 2:00pm America won't be free before Palestine is free. Uncle Sam must get the monkey off his back.
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Bias_2012 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10766 Gender:	Re: American Freedom Reply #24 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 2:29pm Freedom in the US was a by-product of limited government in the first instance. As government got bigger, freedom got smaller (less of it)
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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14264 Gender:	Re: American Freedom Reply #25 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 2:36pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:55pm: But there was a WW2 in SEA. The Japs had invaded China long before 1939 and were on their way here too. You mean the Sino-Japanese war.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: American Freedom
Reply #26 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 2:51pm

The concept of American freedom was predicated on freedom from British rule and from all that the British had imposed on the colonists.

The first 10 amendments, the Bill of Rights were a direct reaction to British restrictions on the colonists, particularly freedom of speech, assembly, religion, the press, the freedom to petition the government, to possess and bear arms...

The descendants of revolutionary Americans to the present day still maintain the belief that the US is the freest nation on earth.

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chimera

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Re: American Freedom
Reply #27 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 3:24pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:28pm:

They were all close to exhaustion as it was by 1917 -

In 1918 Germany came close to winning by cutting off British supply on the coast. The US troops were possibly the balancing weight of fresh units with high morale.

But 'in 1940 the United States responded to this growing threat by instituting a full embargo on exports to Japan, freezing Japanese assets in U.S. banks'. The US forcefully crushed Japan's economy and had to use nukes to defeat Japan. It's getting more expensive to be free.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: American Freedom
Reply #28 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 5:25pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 1:44pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

I might take a trip to China and check it out, maybe see a successful version of the 'socialist revolution' which went wrong in Russia.

Good luck with that.

China is edging closer to demographic and economic collapse.

You might be there to witness another historically typical Chinese dynastic collapse.

Possibly, if the CCP remains deluded by mainstream Western dogma that money creation must be reserved for private money lenders, and kept out of the hands of currency-issuing governments.

Note: China now has the productive capacity to lift everyone into the middle class (regardless of demographic change; robots can replace a lot of workers).

Yellen ignorantly calls it "Chinese over-capacity" because the US can't compete....and Western economists point to local government debt, which is immaterial because the Chinese Treasury can cancel Chinese-denominated debt at any time, so long as the economy remains sufficiently productive.

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aquascoot

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Re: American Freedom
Reply #29 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 5:28pm

i dont think america has won a war since WW2

and in afghanistan?

they went there and set up university courses in gender studies and painted george floyd murals on the streets.

they are disconnected from reality.

as to freedom ?

the northern territory is about as close to freedom as you can get

but hardly anyone wants to live there.

people prefer safety and an authority figure to think for them

most people almost throw up when they hear the term "personal responsibility"

ask carl Grin

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