Australian Politics Forum - Ukraine war update

JC Denton

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #15 - May 19^th, 2024 at 4:03pm

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 4:00pm:

Quote:

it would be extremely unlikely ukraine is inflicting more casualties than russia is, as russia has far more artillery and firing capacity

By number, or quality?

Quote:

i cited mediazona

I just realised you didn't cite any casualty estimates. Why not?

?

the number is right in the link i provided. do you just ask questions over and over again until the people you're arguing with give up out of boredom?

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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5520 Gender:	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #16 - May 19^th, 2024 at 4:11pm Quote: You should tell the BBC that. They seem to be unaware. they are collaborating the the BBC russian language service so probably not unaware https://www.bbc.com/news/world-68819853 do you know them personally?
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121016 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #17 - May 19^th, 2024 at 4:51pm Are the Ukrainians making a ruse? - drawing the Russians past their defenses out in the open where they can be defeated?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #18 - May 19^th, 2024 at 5:14pm

JC Denton wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 2:16pm:

chimera wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Trump is OK with a dictator defeating NATO. His disdain is for US law, constitution and ideals.

it won't matter eitherway chimera besides the final causality rate as ukraine isn't going to win long-term

I would say Russia MUST eventually lose, because the GDP of NATO is more than 20 times the size of Russia.

The US just has to keep dribbling arms to Ukraine at the present rate to maintain the current stalemate (with high ongoing losses among Russians and Ukrainians), until Russia is exhausted militarily and economically.

Meanwhile, the US military industrial complex/Pentagon is laughing all the way to the bank.

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Bobby.

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #19 - May 19^th, 2024 at 5:26pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 5:14pm:

JC Denton wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 2:16pm:

chimera wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 2:02pm:

Trump is OK with a dictator defeating NATO. His disdain is for US law, constitution and ideals.

it won't matter eitherway chimera besides the final causality rate as ukraine isn't going to win long-term

I would say Russia MUST eventually lose, because the GDP of NATO is more than 20 times the size of Russia.

The US just has to keep dribbling arms to Ukraine at the present rate to maintain the current stalemate (with high ongoing losses among Russians and Ukrainians), until Russia is exhausted militarily and economically.

Meanwhile, the US military industrial complex/Pentagon is laughing all the way to the bank.

The Ukrainians are being used up.

It would take an operation like Desert Storm in 1991
to kick the Russians out of Ukraine -
that's not going to happen.

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freediver

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #20 - May 19^th, 2024 at 5:29pm

JC Denton wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 4:03pm:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 4:00pm:

Quote:

it would be extremely unlikely ukraine is inflicting more casualties than russia is, as russia has far more artillery and firing capacity

By number, or quality?

Quote:

i cited mediazona

I just realised you didn't cite any casualty estimates. Why not?

?

the number is right in the link i provided. do you just ask questions over and over again until the people you're arguing with give up out of boredom?

I am just wondering why you went to all the effort to justify your preference for alternative numbers, without quoting them.

Quote:

they are collaborating the the BBC russian language service so probably not unaware

The BBC uses use the term "independent" to describe them, not affiliated

Quote:

I would say Russia MUST eventually lose

Do you think they should?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #21 - May 19^th, 2024 at 5:31pm

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 3:32pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 1:17pm:

JC Denton wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 1:13pm:

a lot of assumptions behind that actually happening

Yes, but I do like Trump's disdain for war (if I understand his position correctly).

Unlike the commedian Zelensky.

Are you suggesting Zelensky enjoys having the Russians invade?

I'm suggesting the clown Zelensky is like the knight in the Monty Python skit.

He could have negotiated with Putin re the majority Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine. But you - being a deluded "freedom or death" ideologue - won't understand that.

Quote:

The US has spent about $175 billion supporting Ukraine since February 2022. Far more than they spend supporting Israel.

Yes, and the discussions about WW3 are heating up in Russia...as Putin realizes he's in a proxy war with the US.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 15426 Armidale Gender:	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #22 - May 19^th, 2024 at 5:45pm thegreatdivide wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 5:31pm: as Putin realizes he's in a proxy war with the US. No no. That's not how it goes. You kill the nazi druggo Jew and people give flowers to the Russian volunteer aid workers.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53276 At my desk.	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #23 - May 19^th, 2024 at 5:50pm Quote: He could have negotiated with Putin re the majority Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine. When? And why? Do you support the Russian invasion?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #24 - May 19^th, 2024 at 6:38pm

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2024 at 5:50pm:

Quote:

He could have negotiated with Putin re the majority Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine.

When? And why?

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/04/09/is-the-us-hindering-much-needed-dip...

There didn’t need to be a dangerous dilemma. But Washington and the EU rejected Putin’s peace offering. The late Stephen Cohen, Professor Emeritus of Politics and director of Russian Studies at Princeton, reminded in a 2014 interview that “it was the European Union, backed by Washington, that said in November to the democratically elected president of a profoundly divided country, Ukraine, ‘You must choose between Europe and Russia.’” There was a diplomatic solution to the catalyst of today’s crisis. The U.S. rejected it.

That rejection led to the coup that led to the civil war between Western Ukraine and the Donbas region in the east and set the stage for the current crisis.

Quote:

Do you support the Russian invasion?

No.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 15426 Armidale Gender:	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #25 - May 19^th, 2024 at 6:57pm 'In the direct talks between Russia and Ukraine, and even in the Turkish mediated talks, the United States seems invisible.' That is unacceptable. And weak when Putin threatened Yanukovich with sanctions. Look what US made Putin do now.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121016 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #26 - May 19^th, 2024 at 9:09pm Ukraine should never have fought back unless NATO was prepared to mount a 1991 Desert Storm type operation to kick the Russians out. The Ukrainians are dying as canon fodder while Europe looks on and France will enjoy their Olympic games.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53276 At my desk.	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #27 - May 19^th, 2024 at 9:30pm TGD, how exactly do you "negotiate" with a belligerent country that keeps invading? Are you suggesting that the Ukraine give up bit and pieces of it's territory to Russia every 10 years?
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Bobby.

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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #28 - May 19^th, 2024 at 10:42pm

Ukraine should have surrendered in March 2022 when they realised that NATO
wasn't going to help them.

They should have said – stuff you NATO -

if you won't help us you can fight the Russians on your territory
and have your cities turned into rubble and your people killed.
Why should Ukraine stick its neck out and be destroyed?

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 15426 Armidale Gender:	Re: Ukraine war update Reply #29 - May 20^th, 2024 at 2:08am We saw that in 1942 when Britain refused to help as Darwin was bombed. Australia dropped king George and bowed to Emperor Hirohito. He said 'Kamikaze' and took slaves from Singapore.
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