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Question: Where will Zelensky have safe heaven?

Australia/New Zealand    
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French overseas territory    
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Somewhere else    
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Total votes: 2
« Created by: tallowood on: Dec 10th, 2025 at 3:21pm »

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Ukraine war update (Read 70840 times)
chimera
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1545 - Mar 26th, 2025 at 2:47pm
 
ProudKangaroo wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 2:36pm:
US as the dominant global super power.

The US dominates in its movies but Russia /US are two dogs barking across their fence. China /US are also barking but if the fence comes down, there's only one US dog to be seen for the other two.
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Bobby.
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1546 - Mar 26th, 2025 at 4:00pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 11:34am:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 8:05am:
The cease fire negotiations are going nowhere.
Neither side will stop while they still have missiles to fire at each other.
My prediction is WW3 - yes it will go nuclear.


It will only go nuclear if Trump is detemined to end the Ukraine war the same way as he is content to end the Gaza war, ie via annihilation  of one of the belligerents, in the case of the Ukraine war,  Russia.

But since he isn't THAT determined (since Russia is a nuclear state), the war will drag on, while Trump has achieved his goal of forcing the EU to defend itself so he can concentrate on containing China.   

Very clever (he's a self-proclained "genius",  after all). 

Of course we still don't know what the conditions, acceptable to both sides, were - which Trump claimed would enable him to end the war in days.   




I think the best we can hope for now is a frozen conflict -
a bit like North and South Korea.

But as I said -
Neither side will stop while they still have missiles to fire at each other.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1547 - Mar 26th, 2025 at 4:01pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 4:00pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 11:34am:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 8:05am:
The cease fire negotiations are going nowhere.
Neither side will stop while they still have missiles to fire at each other.
My prediction is WW3 - yes it will go nuclear.


It will only go nuclear if Trump is detemined to end the Ukraine war the same way as he is content to end the Gaza war, ie via annihilation  of one of the belligerents, in the case of the Ukraine war,  Russia.

But since he isn't THAT determined (since Russia is a nuclear state), the war will drag on, while Trump has achieved his goal of forcing the EU to defend itself so he can concentrate on containing China.   

Very clever (he's a self-proclained "genius",  after all). 

Of course we still don't know what the conditions, acceptable to both sides, were - which Trump claimed would enable him to end the war in days.   




I think the best we can hope for now is a frozen conflict -
a bit like North and South Korea.

But as I said -
Neither side will stop while they still have missiles to fire at each other.


It's been more than 24 hours.

Hasn't Trump stopped the war yet?

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GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles
 
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1548 - Mar 27th, 2025 at 10:45am
 
This Trump?

...

No, he hasn’t.

He is bending over backwards to help the aggressor in the Ukraine war.
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Topics in the right MRB!
 
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Leroy
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1549 - Mar 27th, 2025 at 10:53am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 27th, 2025 at 10:45am:
He is bending over backwards to help the aggressor in the Ukraine war.


Yeah its been proven that the more you insult and vilify Putin the better the outcome will be for Ukraine.
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Trump derangement syndrome
Fareed Zakaria defined the term as "hatred of President Trump so intense that it impairs people's judgment"

Lets check in at 5pm on 23rd July 2025 then at 5pm on 30th July
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1550 - Mar 27th, 2025 at 11:01am
 
chimera wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 12:12pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 11:00am:
You are ignoring the US's rebuff of Russia's desire to join NATO after the collapse of the USSR.

Is that relevant?


Of course it is, the triumphalist US spurned Putin's overtures (as noted in the google report) - what do you expect?   

Quote:
Are you confirming Russia's intent to occupy Uktraine?


No, I am saying Putin suggested a deal with Trump based on Russia's  annexation of Ukraine's Russian-speaking provinces, which Russia now occupies. Trump put the deal to Zelensky, seeing it as a deal which Trump thought was capable of  ending  the war ...."you want to start WW3", Trump asked Zelensky? 

No doubt some bluffing going on.... in the age of MAD, but who blinks first?    

Quote:
tgd "Trump can come to a deal with Putin, and then refuse to send any more arms to Zelensky.
That should end the war, if Zelensky wants to avoid losing all Ukraine ".
you crazy person, you are


So how will a war of attrition end, against Russia, without US supporting NATO? 
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1551 - Mar 27th, 2025 at 11:10am
 
chimera wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 12:16pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 11:18am:
your particular  brand of 'democacy is freedom' delusion.   

Again, you argue about what's not being said. And you keep conflating 'welfare' with 'freedom'.  Their spelling is different.


Again you refuse to say what YOU are saying, a sign of your mental incompetence and hence inability/refusal  to say  what "freedom" is: apparently it's neither democracy nor 'natural rights', nor even the general welfare, but something else you don't want to define. I even gave you google's definition which you ignored. 


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ProudKangaroo
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1552 - Mar 27th, 2025 at 11:19am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27th, 2025 at 11:01am:
No, I am saying Putin suggested a deal with Trump based on Russia's  annexation of Ukraine's Russian-speaking provinces, which Russia now occupies. Trump put the deal to Zelensky, seeing it as a deal which Trump thought was capable of  ending  the war ...."you want to start WW3", Trump asked Zelensky? 

No doubt some bluffing going on.... in the age of MAD, but who blinks first?


Would Trump and the US give up their Spanish speaking parts of California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico to Mexico if they invaded?

It's a simple question to answer, we all know what it would be, so why do they expect Ukraine to do what the US never would, to benefit the invading country?
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1553 - Mar 27th, 2025 at 11:40am
 
ProudKangaroo wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 2:36pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 11:34am:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 26th, 2025 at 8:05am:
The cease fire negotiations are going nowhere.
Neither side will stop while they still have missiles to fire at each other.
My prediction is WW3 - yes it will go nuclear.


It will only go nuclear if Trump is detemined to end the Ukraine war the same way as he is content to end the Gaza war, ie via annihilation  of one of the belligerents, in the case of the Ukraine war,  Russia.

But since he isn't THAT determined (since Russia is a nuclear state), the war will drag on, while Trump has achieved his goal of forcing the EU to defend itself so he can concentrate on containing China.   

Very clever (he's a self-proclained "genius",  after all). 

Of course we still don't know what the conditions, acceptable to both sides, were - which Trump claimed would enable him to end the war in days.   


At what cost?

The USA will back out of NATO and their isolation will be complete.


And that doesn't worry Trump; it's a China-Russia axis which worries Trump.

Quote:
China or a resurgent Russia, again thanks to Trump, will rise up and replace the US as the dominant global super power.


Not if Trump can make a deal with Putin, force Europe to defend itself, and even get Putin on board with 'containing China' (Trump's real aim).

btw, Russia - unlike China - can't achieve its USSR superpower-status again  (its only 150 million people, with a GDP not much bigger than Oz while China is already closing in on  US GDP),  while  China - the upcoming US competitor for that status - would like good relations with Russia, obviously.   

Quote:
I don't want to live in that world, but at this rate, we don't have a choice.


What's threatening about China establishing  "a modern socialist state in all respects" by 2049 (the centenary of the revolution)   - including a green economy and [i]common prosperity",  a China which wants to trade with the rest of the world, and only requires other nations not to force their own values onto China?   

Quote:
There is more at stake than being a QAnon baker and changing that goal of Trumps actions after he's made them to something that will fit and save face, like now, "forcing Europe to defend themselves".


1. Trump thinks he cant "afford"/pay to defend Europe anymore, while containing China.

2.  Maybe you can assist chimera who can't/won't define "freedom", so we discuss "what's at stake"? 
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ProudKangaroo
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1554 - Mar 27th, 2025 at 12:33pm
 
None of this makes any sense unless you erase history entirely.

Russia has never abided by any agreement it has made. It’s a serial violator of international law, and Ukraine is the latest, most blatant example. Russia doesn't negotiate in good faith, it advances, takes what it wants, and then demands more. The endgame isn’t peace, it’s the complete erasure of Ukraine from the map.

And yet, rather than confronting this reality, you've done everything in your power to shift blame onto Ukraine, as if Russia's aggression was somehow invited rather than a calculated imperial ambition.

But even if Ukraine falls, it won’t end there. It never does.

And now Trump is openly musing about doing the same to Canada and Greenland. At first, it sounds like deranged ramblings, another dose of "filling the zone with sh
it
", but that’s precisely the problem. He’s testing the waters, seeing how far the Overton window can be shifted. And too many people are playing along.

Bending the knee to Putin, handing over Ukraine’s resources, industries, and manpower, does not weaken Russia, it strengthens it. Anyone selling this as a means contribute to breaking the Russia-China axis is either delusional or lying.

Trump isn’t controlling Putin, he’s doing Putin’s bidding. If Trump had any real leverage over Moscow, this war would be over. At the very least, a ceasefire would have been signed. But no, Trump’s only real tool is the financial & banking sanctions, targeted sanctions on Russian elites & oligarchs, trade & export bans, frozen Russian assets, and measures to counter Russian evasion attempts implemented before his regime resumed.

And yet, here we are, with Trump floating the idea of easing sanctions under the guise of “facilitating peace negotiations.” His administration has already directed the State and Treasury Departments to draft plans for sanctions relief, supposedly to “restore ties with Moscow” and “end the conflict.”

The results are already clear. A preliminary agreement between Russia and Ukraine, brokered by the US, has been reached to halt maritime attacks in the Black Sea and cease strikes on energy targets. In exchange, the US pledged to lift some sanctions on Russian agricultural and fertilizer exports. But, predictably, Russia immediately demanded more, specifically, the restoration of banking connections to the international financial system before doing anything.

And Trump will cave. He’s so desperate for a deal, any deal, that he'll hand Russia exactly what it wants, no questions asked.

Art of the deal!

All of this, ceding Ukraine’s land, resources, industries, and people, and now the prospect of easing banking sanctions, will directly fuel a resurgent Russia.

In what world is this a good thing?!

And for what? So Russia can pretend to play nice just long enough to regroup, rearm, and invade again?

How can you keep defending this? It’s madness.
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chimera
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1555 - Mar 27th, 2025 at 12:34pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27th, 2025 at 11:01am:
"Trump can come to a deal with Putin, and then refuse to send any more arms to Zelensky.
That should end the war, if Zelensky wants to avoid losing all Ukraine ".

So how will a war of attrition end, against Russia, without US supporting NATO? 

Losing all Ukraine. Russia is not saying it just wants Donetsk region, even now with peace offered.
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chimera
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1556 - Mar 27th, 2025 at 12:37pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27th, 2025 at 11:40am:
chimera who can't/won't define "freedom", so we discuss "what's at stake"? 

Your google definition is right and 'welfare' isn't the meaning. 'Freedom' wasn't the issue for anyone in the invasion. I'm not making that argument, you are.
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1557 - Mar 28th, 2025 at 4:49pm
 
chimera wrote on Mar 27th, 2025 at 12:34pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27th, 2025 at 11:01am:
"Trump can come to a deal with Putin, and then refuse to send any more arms to Zelensky.
That should end the war, if Zelensky wants to avoid losing all Ukraine ".

So how will a war of attrition end, against Russia, without US supporting NATO? 

Losing all Ukraine. Russia is not saying it just wants Donetsk region, even now with peace offered.


You apparently think Trump believed he  "could end the war in a day", with  Putin telling him (in their many phone calls) he wanted all of Ukraine....

Trump's not bright, but he ain't that dumb either.
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1558 - Mar 28th, 2025 at 4:59pm
 
chimera wrote on Mar 27th, 2025 at 12:37pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 27th, 2025 at 11:40am:
chimera who can't/won't define "freedom", so we discuss "what's at stake"? 

Your google definition is right and 'welfare' isn't the meaning. 'Freedom' wasn't the issue for anyone in the invasion. I'm not making that argument, you are.


"Freedom" is an issue for Russians living in Ukraine  from a generation or more ago,  a legacy of the USSR.

People are like that regarding their 'culture';  eg there would be many advantages for Greenlanders and Canadians to become states of the US...if the US wasn't such a politically divided mess, but the bleating but "freedom" is deafening. 

And hunter-gatherers/herders STILL prefer to maintain their own cultures.

Unfortunately the 'sapiens' in homo sapiens is a misnomer. 
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Re: Ukraine war update
Reply #1559 - Mar 28th, 2025 at 5:52pm
 
So you move from 'welfare' to 'culture' as being 'freedom'.
How about 'garbage bin' is 'freedom' - we all need them.
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