Australian Politics Forum - Pernicious nonsense

Frank

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Pernicious nonsense
Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 9:56am

In recent years, efforts to “decolonise” the sciences have been successful in New Zealand with Maori “ways of knowing” to be taught alongside chemistry, physics and biology in science classrooms. Commenting on the New Zealand policy, evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins has described it as “pernicious nonsense”.

...
A deeper understanding of non-Western cultures is important – and we have an entire academic discipline devoted to just that. Anthropology exists to study the practices, cosmologies and knowledge systems of Indigenous populations.

Yet decolonial thinkers will argue that by isolating the study of Indigenous ways of knowing the anthropology department is itself a form of oppression.

...

Australia is not immune to this line of thinking, and neither are the hard sciences at our most prestigious institutions. The Australian National University’s Mathematical Sciences Institute this month released a press statement about a special topics course in Indigenous mathematics. Course convener Rowena Ball is quoted as saying “Indigenous and First Nations peoples around the world are standing up and saying: ‘Our knowledge is just as good as anybody else’s − why can’t we teach it to our children in our schools, and in our own way?’.” The press release also states that “Numbers and arithmetic and accounting often are of secondary importance in Indigenous mathematics”.

What are some forms of Indigenous mathematics? The example given by Ball is directions in smoke signalling. “One interesting example that we are currently investigating is the use of chiral symmetry to engineer a long-distance smoke signalling technology in real time,” she says.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/in-maths-truth-and-knowledge-cant-be...

And what is the larger stupidity at work here?

As Claire Lehmann points out: by indulging the decolonial activist agenda that rejects the existence of objective truths or a hierarchy of knowledge, universities undermine the very premise on which society deems them worthy of public funding. If we accept the decolonial notion that no form of knowledge can be deemed superior to any other, then what exactly are students paying for? What specialised skills or benefits do university graduates gain that non-graduates lack? Why should the public continue to fund these multibillion-dollar organisations if the knowledge they offer is just as valid as any other “way of knowing”?

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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 16619 In your happy place Gender:	Re: Pernicious nonsense Reply #1 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 9:59am If Australian aborigines adopted Judaism Frank's slander and insulting denigration of them would cease instantly.
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Gnads

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Re: Pernicious nonsense
Reply #2 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 10:03am

Quote:

“Numbers and arithmetic and accounting often are of secondary importance in Indigenous mathematics”

Even less in Aboriginal mathematics.

Quote:

As Claire Lehmann points out: by indulging the decolonial activist agenda that rejects the existence of objective truths or a hierarchy of knowledge, universities undermine the very premise on which society deems them worthy of public funding. If we accept the decolonial notion that no form of knowledge can be deemed superior to any other, then what exactly are students paying for? What specialised skills or benefits do university graduates gain that non-graduates lack? [highlight]Why should the public continue to fund these multibillion-dollar organisations if the knowledge they offer is just as valid as any other “way of knowing”?

100% spot on. This is the fanciful shyte that infests our entire education system.

When they finish 12 years of primary/secondry education, then a couple of years of Uni ... doing some BS course like Rowena Ball offers.

They can't read, write or do arithmetic and their heads are full of fictional bullshyte.

Any wonder they remain unemployed ... and they wonder why.

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« Last Edit: Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 10:11am by Gnads »

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Frank

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Re: Pernicious nonsense
Reply #3 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 11:50am

Dawkins:

Jacinda Ardern’s government implemented a ludicrous policy, spawned by Chris Hipkins’s Ministry of Education before he became prime minister. Science classes are to be taught that Māori ‘Ways of Knowing’ (Mātauranga Māori) have equal standing with ‘western’ science. Not surprisingly, this adolescent virtue-signalling horrified New Zealand’s grown-up scientists and scholars. Seven of them wrote to the Listener magazine. Three who were fellows of the NZ Royal Society were threatened with an inquisitorial investigation. Two of these, including the distinguished medical scientist Garth Cooper, himself of Māori descent, resigned (the third unfortunately died). I was delighted to meet Professor Cooper for lunch, with others of the seven. His resignation letter cited the society’s failure to support science against its denigration as ‘a western European invention’. He was affronted, too, by a complaint (not endorsed by the NZRS) that ‘to insist Māori children learn to read is an act of colonisation’. Is there an implication here – condescending, if not downright racist – that ‘indigenous’ children need separate, special treatment?
...

Postscript on the flight out: Air New Zealand think it a cute idea to invoke Māori gods in their safety briefing. Imagine if British Airways announced that their planes are kept aloft by the Holy Ghost in equal partnership with Bernoulli’s Principle and Newton’s First Law. Science explains. It lightens our darkness. Science is the poetry of reality. It belongs to all humanity.
https://web.archive.org/web/20230302113150/https:/www.spectator.co.uk/article/wh...

Stupidity is more contagious than any covid and indigenous activists and their white boosters and apologists are more succeceptible than the general population which has the antidote - common sense.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 89222 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Pernicious nonsense Reply #4 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 12:45pm Laugh till you cry wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 9:59am: If Australian aborigines adopted Judaism Frank's slander and insulting denigration of them would cease instantly. Did you learn anything from your stay in Gondwanamo? We feared for you... in some countries people are never seen again.....
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Pernicious nonsense
Reply #5 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 12:51pm

Frank wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 11:50am:

Stupidity is more contagious than any covid, and indigenous activists and their white boosters and apologists are more succeceptible than the general population which has the antidote - common sense.

Well, asserting that a hunter-gatherer consciousness of the world is more (or equally) important than modern scientific discovery is indeed absurd.

But "progressives" assert it because they are trying to see indigenous cultures prosper in the modern world, as an antidote to the modern world's vicious, welfare- dependency economics.

(There was no welfare-dependency in indigenous h-g cultures; everyone - including women and kids - automatically had a role in the economy).

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« Last Edit: Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 12:57pm by thegreatdivide »

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Laugh till you cry

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Re: Pernicious nonsense
Reply #6 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 1:33pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 12:45pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 9:59am:

If Australian aborigines adopted Judaism Frank's slander and insulting denigration of them would cease instantly.

Did you learn anything from your stay in Gondwanamo? We feared for you... in some countries people are never seen again.....

GTTF's powder is still as wet as his bedding.

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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 89222 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Pernicious nonsense Reply #7 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 1:40pm .
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Frank

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Re: Pernicious nonsense
Reply #8 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 1:46pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 12:51pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 11:50am:

Stupidity is more contagious than any covid, and indigenous activists and their white boosters and apologists are more succeceptible than the general population which has the antidote - common sense.

Well, asserting that a hunter-gatherer consciousness of the world is more (or equally) important than modern scientific discovery is indeed absurd.

But "progressives" assert it because they are trying to see indigenous cultures prosper in the modern world, as an antidote to the modern world's vicious, welfare- dependency economics.

(There was no welfare-dependency in indigenous h-g cultures; everyone - including women and kids - automatically had a role in the economy).

This is about science, parrot, not your hobby horse.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Pernicious nonsense
Reply #9 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 1:48pm

Frank wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 9:56am:

As Claire Lehmann points out: by indulging the decolonial activist agenda that rejects the existence of objective truths or a hierarchy of knowledge, universities undermine the very premise on which society deems them worthy of public funding. If we accept the decolonial notion that no form of knowledge can be deemed superior to any other, then what exactly are students paying for? What specialised skills or benefits do university graduates gain that non-graduates lack? Why should the public continue to fund these multibillion-dollar organisations if the knowledge they offer is just as valid as any other “way of knowing”?

When I read that, I thought, this is from someone who has never been to university.

However, when I Googled Lehmann I discovered this:

"She graduated with a bachelor's degree in psychology and English from the University of Adelaide with first-class honours in 2010."

Really!? Shocked

Quite surprising considering how ignorant she is about the value of university education.

Then again, this could explain something: "Born 18 July 1985, Lehmann ... was raised in Adelaide, South Australia."

Ah.

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« Last Edit: Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 1:58pm by greggerypeccary »

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16239 Gender:	Re: Pernicious nonsense Reply #10 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 1:52pm Something Sadhguru said in an interview regarding an illness he survived. He used Western health science combined with traditional Ayurvedic medicine... Which one cured him? "That is up to fate"...
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Frank

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Re: Pernicious nonsense
Reply #11 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 2:01pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 1:48pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 9:56am:

As Claire Lehmann points out: by indulging the decolonial activist agenda that rejects the existence of objective truths or a hierarchy of knowledge, universities undermine the very premise on which society deems them worthy of public funding. If we accept the decolonial notion that no form of knowledge can be deemed superior to any other, then what exactly are students paying for? What specialised skills or benefits do university graduates gain that non-graduates lack? Why should the public continue to fund these multibillion-dollar organisations if the knowledge they offer is just as valid as any other “way of knowing”?

When I read that, I thought: "This is from someone who has never been to university".

Ah.

Not at all. You simply did not understand the point even though it is put very succinctly, as a series of questions. Can you answer them to show your understanding?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Pernicious nonsense
Reply #12 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 2:04pm

Frank wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 2:01pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 1:48pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 9:56am:

As Claire Lehmann points out: by indulging the decolonial activist agenda that rejects the existence of objective truths or a hierarchy of knowledge, universities undermine the very premise on which society deems them worthy of public funding. If we accept the decolonial notion that no form of knowledge can be deemed superior to any other, then what exactly are students paying for? What specialised skills or benefits do university graduates gain that non-graduates lack? Why should the public continue to fund these multibillion-dollar organisations if the knowledge they offer is just as valid as any other “way of knowing”?

When I read that, I thought: "This is from someone who has never been to university".

Ah.

Not at all. You simply did not understand the point even though it is put very succinctly, as a series of questions. Can you answer them to show your understanding?

Oh, I understand alright.

And from your response I can safely assume you have never stepped foot on a university campus.

Well, not to study.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Pernicious nonsense
Reply #13 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 2:10pm

Frank wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 1:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 12:51pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 11:50am:

Stupidity is more contagious than any covid, and indigenous activists and their white boosters and apologists are more succeceptible than the general population which has the antidote - common sense.

Well, asserting that a hunter-gatherer consciousness of the world is more (or equally) important than modern scientific discovery is indeed absurd.

But "progressives" assert it because they are trying to see indigenous cultures prosper in the modern world, as an antidote to the modern world's vicious, welfare- dependency economics.

(There was no welfare-dependency in indigenous h-g cultures; everyone - including women and kids - automatically had a role in the economy).

This is about science, parrot, not your hobby horse.

(sigh) you want to condemn "progressives" (like Jacinda Adern) for their 'pernicious nonsense', without understanding WHY they want to raise the general population's estimation of h-g indigenous cultures.

Hint: remember the 'annoying' gap....?

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Pernicious nonsense
Reply #14 - Apr 22^nd, 2024 at 2:14pm

So the view of h-gs will rise when they are illiterate? Yeah - I can see that..... ummmm ... somewhere.... some how..... yeah... yeah... they'll be held in higher respect for their inability to read and write..... yeah... yeah....

Son - those days are GONE!

Maori Mathematics ... about half a flock o' seagulls, bro.... there's more when they're after chups.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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