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Chinese Communist Party Propaganda (Read 44907 times)
lee
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #540 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 7:56pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:57pm:
Your error: the 2nd quote in  #517 is from Fraudiver;  namely

Human rights are an alien concept to you
.

And yet nowhere did I say it. So you are just a serial liar. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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freediver
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #541 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 9:18pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 5:58pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 5:33pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 5:30pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 5:15pm:
Quote:
The UNUDHR, by definition,  is the most complete compilation of universal human rights.


Grin

Is it because they put the word universal in the name?


No, it's because we - as humans who are aware of the desires of self AND others, and wanting to avoid chaos  - like to create concepts such as natural human rights...  which must be codified in law because they don't  exist in nature. 

I have a right to decent basic housing, it's a universal right because we all need safe secure shelter  to be able to expeierence the 'right' to life and  liberty (in a money based economy; you can't maintain good health and be homeless, in a money-based economy).   


So the same same organisation that put Pakistan in charge of the women's rights committee is by definition the final authority on human rights?


No, obviously any committee of the UN  which did that,  would not be abiding by the principles of the UNUDHR.

Which just goes to show WHY the UN can't defend the principles of the UNUDHR, ie,  its defense of human rights is flawed BECAUSE (like you)  of a  confused conception of 'rights' as they relate to competitive individuals.

Hence the egregious 'let's give all members of the UNGA a chance to participate', or whatever the weird reason is;  but when the members of the UNSC itself are able to wage war when it's in their own perceived self- interest,  you can see how the concept of responsible behaviour is corrupted at the highest levels of the UN. 

Quote:
I realise the CCP treat's its citizens like gullible morons, but that won't work outside of China, little Mao.


But human rights might  work under a "benevolent authority"; and we know 'human rights' based on desires of self-interested individuals (and self-intereted nations claiming absolute national sovereignty) certainly doesn't work.  (Meantime, it's nice that China doesn't want war).

Keep them questions coming, you'll have a correct understanding of "human rights" in the end. ....


So the UN can't be trusted on human rights because it represents too many corrupt regimes, like the CCP, for whom human rights violations are standard practice. But somehow, "by definition" (still not sure how you got there) they wrote the bible on human rights? Which just happens to leave out all the bits that corrupt regimes like the CCP don't like?

The CCP killed about 100 million Chinese people. Are the Chinese people any more capable of defending themselves from the CCP today?
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #542 - Dec 15th, 2024 at 4:20pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 7:56pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:57pm:
Your error: the 2nd quote in  #517 is from Fraudiver;  namely

Human rights are an alien concept to you
.

And yet nowhere did I say it. So you are just a serial liar. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


I didn't say you did, dummy.

Apology not accepted....
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #543 - Dec 15th, 2024 at 4:40pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 9:18pm:
So the UN can't be trusted on human rights because it represents too many corrupt regimes, like the CCP, for whom human rights violations are standard practice.


I wouldn't put the CCP government, whose constitution is dedicated to furthering 'common prosperity', on a par with  government by religious zealots eg the more backward, corrupt countries in the ME and Global South.

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to what "human rights" are violated as "standard pratice", by the CCP. 

Quote:
But somehow, "by definition" (still not sure how you got there) they wrote the bible on human rights? Which just happens to leave out all the bits that corrupt regimes like the CCP don't like?


Indeed the UNUDHR is the bible on human rights; and you seem to be incapable of understanding the word "universal" in UNUDHR.

Quote:
The CCP killed about 100 million Chinese people. Are the Chinese people any more capable of defending themselves from the CCP today?


Your error: the CCP has learned how to eradicate poverty (even at the fastest rate of any country in history); if the CCP maintains that course, the people will be celebrating their CCP government.   


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« Last Edit: Dec 15th, 2024 at 5:38pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #544 - Dec 15th, 2024 at 4:45pm
 
In Australia. Yellow people are dumb and primitive.
They're only good for hard labour jobs.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #545 - Dec 15th, 2024 at 4:56pm
 
Quote:
I wouldn't put the CCP government, whose constitution is dedicated to furthering 'common prosperity', on a par with  government by religious zealots eg the more backward, corrupt countries in the ME and Global South.


Communism is the most dangerous ideology in human human history. No other has killed more people.

Quote:
Perhaps you can enlighten us as to what "human rights" are violated as "standard pratice", by the CCP.


A good example: they jailed journalists for trying to inform people about the initial covid outbreak. That cover-up cost millions of lives.

Quote:
Indeed the UNUDHR is the bible on human rights


LOL.

Quote:
and you seem to be incapable of understanding the word "universal" in UNUDHR


I can see the word. It has universal in the title, just like North Korea has democratic in its name. And like a good little communist stooge, that is the limit of your understanding.

Quote:
Your error: the CCP has learned how to eradicate poverty (even at the fastest rate of any country in history); if the CCP maintains that course, the people will be celebrating their CCP government.   


Did you quote the wrong sentence? I cannot see how that is a response to what you quoted. Here it is again:

The CCP killed about 100 million Chinese people. Are the Chinese people any more capable of defending themselves from the CCP today?
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #546 - Dec 15th, 2024 at 5:43pm
 
Jasin wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 4:45pm:
In Australia. Yellow people are dumb and primitive.
They're only good for hard labour jobs.


And in China? Chinese scientists and engineers were responsible for bringing back the first ever samples  from the far side of the moon (NASA is reportedly  not very pleased);  and the 2nd nation in the world to steer (remotely) a rover on Mars. 
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #547 - Dec 15th, 2024 at 5:47pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 5:43pm:
Jasin wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 4:45pm:
In Australia. Yellow people are dumb and primitive.
They're only good for hard labour jobs.


And in China? Chinese scientists and engineers were responsible for bringing back the first ever samples  from the far side of the moon (NASA is reportedly  not very pleased);  and the 2nd nation in the world to steer (remotely) a rover on Mars. 


Also, Chinese politicians have gotten away with killing 100 million of their own citizens through a combination of deliberate murder, lies and incompetence. Only the Russians can come close to that boast.
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Bobby.
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #548 - Dec 15th, 2024 at 5:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 5:47pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 5:43pm:
Jasin wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 4:45pm:
In Australia. Yellow people are dumb and primitive.
They're only good for hard labour jobs.


And in China? Chinese scientists and engineers were responsible for bringing back the first ever samples  from the far side of the moon (NASA is reportedly  not very pleased);  and the 2nd nation in the world to steer (remotely) a rover on Mars. 


Also, Chinese politicians have gotten away with killing 100 million of their own citizens through a combination of deliberate murder, lies and incompetence. Only the Russians can come close to that boast.



When they invade us do you think they'll be kind to women and children?
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #549 - Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:07pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 4:56pm:
Communism is the most dangerous ideology in human human history. No other has killed more people.


Your error: this is mere assertion based on your delusional  "individual freedom/rights" ideology (you can't have unregulated freedom based on self-interest, if there is more than one individual in the world);  and a   non sequitur to the point made, namely:

I wouldn't put the CCP government, whose constitution is dedicated to furthering 'common prosperity', on a par with  government by religious zealots eg the more backward, corrupt countries in the ME and Global South.


Quote:
A good example: they jailed journalists for trying to inform people about the initial covid outbreak. That cover-up cost millions of lives.


https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/29/10/23-0585_article

"Our estimates suggest that China’s true death toll is closer to 1,014 deaths/1 million persons, roughly double that of Japan and 30% of that of the United States."

[It seems China's severe initial lockdown - to prevent transmission of the virus -  effectively prevented transmission of the virus, but when the lock-downs were eased the death toll soared; however, total covid  deaths  still less thn the US as noted above]

Anymore "human rights"  abuses by the CCP?


Quote:
TGD
Indeed the UNUDHR is the bible on human rights

LOL.


Your error ; "LOL"  is NOT a debating point, you still haven't explained why my conception of "human rights" is wrong (or "alien"). 

Quote:
I can see the word. It has universal in the title, just like North Korea has democratic in its name. And like a good little communist stooge, that is the limit of your understanding.


Your error (... they are piling up now, as to be expected from a blind "individual freedom/rights" ideologue:

Universal and democratic are different concepts relating to different phenomena.

Here is  an interesting aticle, purporting to establish 'universal democracy' as a human right.

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/en_-_universal_declaration_on_democracy-web.pdf

Universal Declaration on Democracy
Adopted* by IPU Member Parliaments on the occasion
of the 98th Inter-Parliamentary Conference
(Cairo, 11-16 September 1997[/b]

*...obviously by people concerned with the  lack of identification of democracy as a "human right", in the earlier UNUDHR (promulgated  in 1948).


26. To preserve international democracy, States must ensure that their conduct conforms to international law, refrain from the use or threat of force and from any conduct that endangers or violates the sovereignty and political or territorial integrity of other States, and take steps to resolve their differences by peaceful means. 

haha, they noticed  international law was being  neutered by  the UNSC veto, so decided to "take steps to resolve their differences by peaceful means"...without relying on international law - in an appeal to a Libertarian -type concept  of 'volunatry agreement' as a  replacement for  rule of law.  Hopeless.   

Quote:
Did you quote the wrong sentence? I cannot see how that is a response to what you quoted. Here it is again:


Proving your ideological blindness: you referred to the  Chinese people needing  to "defend themselves from the CCP. ". 

Quote:
The CCP killed about 100 million Chinese people.[ Are the Chinese people any more capable of defending themselves from the CCP today?


Now  - being mentally incompent - you are resorting  to mere reptition: that point was answered in the previous post.

Why would ANY people want to defend themselves against a government which is improving their living standards at the fastest rate in history?
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #550 - Dec 15th, 2024 at 9:37pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 7:07pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 4:56pm:
Communism is the most dangerous ideology in human human history. No other has killed more people.


Your error: this is mere assertion based on your delusional  "individual freedom/rights" ideology (you can't have unregulated freedom based on self-interest, if there is more than one individual in the world);  and a   non sequitur to the point made, namely:


The CCP killed about 100 million of it's own citizens in the name of communism. Communism was both the incompetence and the homicidal mania behind the CCP.

The Russians were not as lethal with their incompetence, but they nearly made up for it with homicidal mania in the name of communism. Stalin for example executed nearly a million people.

The only thing more dangerous than a Nazi trying to kill you is a communist trying to help you.
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #551 - Dec 16th, 2024 at 10:13am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 15th, 2024 at 9:37pm:
Communism is the most dangerous ideology in human human history. No other has killed more people.


Again your error, apart from the non-sequitur (your errors  are incredibly easy to expose):

TGD:
I wouldn't put the CCP government, whose constitution is dedicated to furthering 'common prosperity', on a par with  government by religious zealots eg the more backward, corrupt countries in the ME and Global South.


Nor would I put today's CCP on a par with  Stalin's Russia. "Communism"  as a concept is not the same as regimes instituted in its name. The CCP does not manage  a wholly planned economy today, as in the Soviet Union.

(Now you are in a bind: you can't acknowledge the benefits of open markets and simultaneously  comdemn the CCP as a "communist" government). 

Quote:
The CCP killed about 100 million of it's own citizens in the name of communism. Communism was both the incompetence and the homicidal mania behind the CCP.


Ancient history. Since 1990 the CCP has eradicated poverty at the fastest rate in history, while the democracies are inploding under cost of living, soaring inequality, generational poverty,  and homelessness crises. 

Quote:
The Russians were not as lethal with their incompetence, but they nearly made up for it with homicidal mania in the name of communism. Stalin for example executed nearly a million people.


Your error, Russia's population was a fraction of China's, so absolute numbers aren't comparable.

Quote:
The only thing more dangerous than a Nazi trying to kill you is a communist trying to help you.


"Blaming Marx for Stalin's Russia is like blaming  Christ for the Inquistion.

So we can expect you - being mentally incompetent  - to continue to resort to mindless reptition, in place of debate.

Eg, you completely ignored the implications of the  efforts of the confused bunnies wanting to implement a "Universal Declaration on Democracy" - including this gem in article 26:

"To preserve international democracy, States must ensure that their conduct conforms to international law...." 

Who is the arbiter of international law, one might ask....
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #552 - Dec 16th, 2024 at 11:02am
 
Quote:
Ancient history.


No it isn't. It's the same political party. The same institution. The same lies.

The CCP's lies and mismanagement of covid was basically a re-run of the Great Chinese Famine.

Quote:
Since 1990 the CCP has eradicated poverty at the fastest rate in history


Easy to say when you have just finished starving 50 million people to death.
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #553 - Dec 16th, 2024 at 1:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 16th, 2024 at 11:02am:
Quote:
Ancient history.


No it isn't. It's the same political party. The same institution. The same lies.
 

Mentally incompetent FD continue to show his lack of comprehsion and logic skills.

As a matter of fact, IMF officials were in Beijing recently, expressing the hope that the CCP can maintain China's role as 'the engine of global economic growth'. 

Quote:
The CCP's lies and mismanagement of covid was basically a re-run of the Great Chinese Famine.
 

And yet Trump caused more pro rata covid deaths in the US than the CCP did in China; do try to keep up.

Quote:
Easy to say when you have just finished starving 50 million people to death.


Eradicating poverty at the fastest rate in history is not easy to accomplish...

While democracies are imploding (eg France and Germany, two of the greatest) because debt means they can longer fix the cost-of living and homelessness crises (because the middle class can't afford to pay higher taxes anymore). 
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Re: Chinese Communist Party Propaganda
Reply #554 - Dec 16th, 2024 at 1:50pm
 
Add this book to your must-read list

The Conscience of the Party: Hu Yaobang, China’s Communist Reformer. By Robert E Suettinger

When I was invited, 25 years ago, to teach ­Chinese politics at Latrobe University, I was offered carte blanche to design the course as I saw fit. I opted to centre it on the life of Hu Yaobang (1915-1989).

Five years ago, in Washington, I was invited to dinner by Dimon Liu and her husband, Robert Suettinger. Over that dinner, I learned that he was writing a biography of Hu Yaobang. As a 45-year veteran of CIA, State Department and National Security Council China analysis, he was well-placed to write such a book.

He has done a splendid job. If you feel the need to understand the origins, the history, the internal factional politics, the epic failures and current nature of the Chinese Communist Party, start here.

Suettinger titles his introduction “Soul of the Nation”. Why would he do that? Because Hu Yaobang embodied the sense of historical mission in Chinese communism; spent his entire adult life honestly attempting to fulfil that mission; and was the spear carrier, after the death of Mao Zedong in 1976, for not only economic, but also political, judicial and cultural reform.

Widely read, Hu came to believe that China needed to replace Marx (to say nothing of Mao) with Montesquieu and responsible government. He was thwarted by reactionaries within the party and sidelined by Deng Xiaoping, from January 1987. His death, by heart attack, on April 15, 1989, brought tens of thousands of students and citizens into Tiananmen Square. There they placed Hu’s portrait on the Monument to the People’s Heroes. Deng Xiaoping declared martial law and sent tanks to forcibly clear the square.

This story matters more than ever now, as Xi Jinping imposes on China the antithesis of what Hu Yaobang articulated and patiently, intelligently championed, between 1977 and 1987.

A China which had embarked upon the path urged by Hu and many around him, would have been a China we could very comfortably and warmly have welcomed into the comity of modern nations. That of Xi Jinping we cannot, for it is opposed openly and aggressively to everything we cherish and live by.

Suettinger has laid this out for us in a beautifully balanced, poignant, deeply documented, scrupulously pondered biography. There are 10 chapters. The first three, “Born to the Revolution”, “Basking in the light of Mao Zedong” and “Winning the Wars, Securing Power” take us from the birth of Hu Yaobang to the overthrow of the Nationalist (Guomintang) government, in 1949. At that point, Hu was just 34 years of age, but already a bloodied veteran.

The next three chapters, “Growing Doubts”, “Into the Maelstrom” and “Cultural Revolutions” show Hu caught up in the vast excesses and catastrophes of the dictatorship by the party under Mao Zedong. They show him working under Deng Xiaoping in Sichuan in 1950-51 to secure that frontier province for the revolution, then running the Communist Youth League, then being deeply shaken by the Anti-Rightist campaign, again run by Deng Xiaoping, followed by the utter disaster of Mao’s Great Leap Forward, in which tens of millions of peasants perished; and, finally, being caught up and tossed about by Mao’s Cultural Revolution.

Even in the early years of the party, Suettinger shows, during the Jiangxi Soviet, the Long March, the years in Yan’an and the final phase of the Civil War (1946-49), Hu witnessed countless atrocities and abuses of power. In Sichuan alone, after the defeat of the Guomindang, while working for Deng Xiaoping, he was confronted by many hundreds of thousands of executions. But like all too many on the global left, he rationalised much of this as the cost of revolution.

His post-1949 experience changed that. After 10 years of torture and rustication, he emerged an articulate and gifted reformer and, championed by Ye Jianying, rose to become General Secretary of the party.

What he did and what he attempted in the final phase of his life (1977-1989) is covered in the final four chapters, “Bringing Order Out of Chaos”, “The Making of a Reformer”, “Deng’s Wrath” and “Hu’s Fall” and “Hu Yaobang and the Fate of Reform”. These chapters are luminous and elegiac. Xi Jinping would prefer they had never been written. You must read them.

For two reasons: Hu Yaobang stands out among all his storied peers for his extraordinary capacity to rebalance and look ahead with integrity and never put personal ambition ahead of the core mission: modernising and liberating China.

There were others like Hu, of course. They were, all of them, crushed and suppressed, expelled or silenced by the party. For that reason and because of what has followed the killings in Tiananmen Square, including the crushing of liberty in Hong Kong and the ominous threats to Taiwan, this book must be read.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts/review/add-this-book-to-your-mustread-list...
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