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foundations (Read 49146 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: foundations
Reply #165 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:28am
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:08am:
sort of an old Semitic version of Aboriginal Colonialism - this is my /our country because we saw it from a hill over there, claimed it, and killed those who lived here and fought off all others who wandered up that hill and claimed it....

Funny how you subscribe to one form of colonialism but reject another based purely on race...  must be one of them psychoses, eh?


Geez you are expert at projecting your own psychosis onto others: indeed abos are hanging onto their 'song lines', and non-rational Jews are hanging onto their mythologies.

Both need to catch up with the changing culture of the modern world.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: foundations
Reply #166 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:49am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:28am:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:08am:
sort of an old Semitic version of Aboriginal Colonialism - this is my /our country because we saw it from a hill over there, claimed it, and killed those who lived here and fought off all others who wandered up that hill and claimed it....

Funny how you subscribe to one form of colonialism but reject another based purely on race...  must be one of them psychoses, eh?


Geez you are expert at projecting your own psychosis onto others: indeed abos are hanging onto their 'song lines', and non-rational Jews are hanging onto their mythologies.

Both need to catch up with the changing culture of the modern world.




But.... but .... but... JEWS - 'rational' and 'non-rational' (a manifestation of your projecting your psychoses) - are not only the majority in Israel ... but they also legally OWN the whole place - not just have native title to wander about and catch a roo while themselves admitting they OWN no land at all and can't even build a home on it.... but still carrying on as if 'native title' allows them to turf anyone else off it.... there's your massive difference....

You see where I'm getting at you here???  And what I'm hinting at as a REAL solution to your delusions about Jews and
Aborigines???
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thegreatdivide
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Re: foundations
Reply #167 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:59am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:19am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:18am:
freediver wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:01am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 8:16am:
freediver wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 8:33pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 6:47pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 6:11pm:
Quote:
Got it....


Can you give an example?


Religious Zionists with their "promised Land" "reality";
and Morrison with his related beliefs re 'anti-christian' China, not shared by eg, Keating or myself - being more interested in reality.   


No, you still don't understand.


Ok..... you know the drill: please explain....

Hint: religious belief is shared by particular groups; YOUR definition of "intersubjective reality."   

FD: "It refers to things that become real as a consequence of shared belief in them." 

ie nothing to do with reality, but just belief. Your belief in fairy tales doesn't make them real.


The value we attach to money is an intersubjective reality.


Another fantasy....money is created out of thin air, the value you assign to it is very confused. 


So human rights are an "illusion" in the same sense that money, laws, national borders etc are an illusion?


Good to see you asking intelligent qustions.

Answer: No.

1. "Human rights" - based on belief in "natural individual rights" which don't exist - is a flawed concept if based on that non-existent (illusory) foundation. 

As opposed to, eg, the human desire ("right") for shared prosperity, a goal of the UNUniversalDHR,  which most people would agree is a desirable proposition. 

2. Whereas money, laws, national borders are NOT illusory, though often disputed BECAUSE of belief in  'natural individual rights' which don't exist. 

(I have already commented on the confusion over the nature of money, resulting eg in the public recoiling from the fact it is created out of nothing; and an enlightened view of the world would reduce borders to mere administrative  zones in  international law, to achieve a peaceful global multicultural community.

You still prefer continuous war, to be "free"?



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freediver
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Re: foundations
Reply #168 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 10:03am
 
Why are you confused about the value assigned to money?

Quote:
"Human rights" - based on belief in "natural individual rights" which don't exist


What if it is based on something other than your strawman?

The whole point of an intersubjective reality is that it becomes real because of the belief, regardless of what basis that belief has. Criticising the basis for the belief does not change the reality that comes from it. Just like complaining that money is invented "out of thin air" does not change the reality of its value. Would money suddenly become an illusion if people thought it's value came from God, aliens, magic, or clever paperwork? You are criticising your own (deliberate?) misunderstanding of what human rights are, nothing more.
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« Last Edit: Mar 5th, 2024 at 10:08am by freediver »  

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: foundations
Reply #169 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 10:26am
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:49am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:28am:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:08am:
sort of an old Semitic version of Aboriginal Colonialism - this is my /our country because we saw it from a hill over there, claimed it, and killed those who lived here and fought off all others who wandered up that hill and claimed it....

Funny how you subscribe to one form of colonialism but reject another based purely on race...  must be one of them psychoses, eh?


Geez you are expert at projecting your own psychosis onto others: indeed abos are hanging onto their 'song lines', and non-rational Jews are hanging onto their mythologies.

Both need to catch up with the changing culture of the modern world.




But.... but .... but... JEWS - 'rational' and 'non-rational' (a manifestation of your projecting your psychoses)


??

"secular Jewish anti-Zionists identified more with ideals of the Enlightenment and saw Zionism as a reactionary ideology." isn't my pyschosis, it's historical fact.

By definition,  faith is irrational (non-rational) whereas  the Enlightenment was based on reason.

Quote:
- are not only the majority in Israel


after the forced expulsion of Muslims from their homes in the land designated as Israel by the UN Partition Plan.

Quote:
... but they also legally OWN the whole place


Not according to UN res 242.

Quote:
- not just have native title to wander about and catch a roo while themselves admitting they OWN no land at all and can't even build a home on it.... but still carrying on as if 'native title' allows them to turf anyone else off it.... there's your massive difference....



Yes, that is a difference, but the similarity is as I said: both abo and zionist jewish beliefs are ancient anachronistic beliefs; Israel has been able to enforce that belief with ongoing genocide; the abos haven't, lacking numbers and technology.

Quote:
You see where I'm getting at you here???  And what I'm hinting at as a REAL solution to your delusions about Jews and
Aborigines???


Like I said, not delusions but fact (refer to the wiki article again).

Meanwhile your real solution: genocide on Palestinians, and  forced assimilation of abos.

I reject the former,  and want assimilation via economic policies which are  favourable to abos (to close the gap), which sensible (rational)  blacks will accept. 
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Gnads
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Re: foundations
Reply #170 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 10:44am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 3rd, 2024 at 10:09pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Bobby, you really are a WOFTAM.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Grin A WOFTAM calling another WOFTAM a WOFTAM.

Just like a brown skinned man making a racial slur toward another brown skinned man.  Grin
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Gnads
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Re: foundations
Reply #171 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 10:52am
 
Frank wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:08pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 1:45pm:
Immigration will always be an easy target for politicians to leverage against their opposition.

The obvious reason is instinctive human suspicion of the other.

The next reason is the assimilation issues that invariably arise among post-1st generation immigrants who are forced to take on the challenges of having a foot in both culture-camps that can often spill over into antisocial and/'or criminal behaviour.


Ah... so it is about other cultures, not merely 'others', and the detrimental social effects of the tension between cultures.
Every other person is... well.. an 'other', so it is not about just any old movement of people.

And it is an 'easy' target' only in the sense that it is is an obvious and protracted problem. 

It is only white Western populations that are expected to accommodate the entire world and all its cultures. There is no expectation of, say, Muslim Arabs accommodating Jews, Christians, Africans, Chinese, Hindus, Sikhs, Animists, Atheist and apostates (or even Palestinian Muslims) from every corner of the globe and give them the freedom not only to live their own way but actively resist assimilatiion to Muslim Arab culture and social norms..



Therein lies the truth of the matter & the kick in the balls reality that the looney leftoids don't accept...... they are truly numbnuts.
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Gnads
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Re: foundations
Reply #172 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 10:56am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:15pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:08pm:
It is only white Western populations that are expected to accommodate the entire world and all its cultures. There is no expectation of, say, Muslim Arabs accommodating Jews, Christians, Africans, Chinese, Hindus, Sikhs, Animists, Atheist and apostates (or even Palestinian Muslims) from every corner of the globe and give them the freedom not only to live their own way but actively resist assimilatiion to Muslim Arab culture and social norms..

That's right.

Western cultures hold themselves to ridiculously high standards of secularism, human rights, rule of law, (non-gender-based) equality before the law, freedom of speech and movement, political accountability etc...

The vast majority of cultures have never, and do not today, hold themselves to those high standards.


And when they migrate to those Western Cultures they don't want to hold themselves to those high standards there either ..... they want to be allowed to turn the country they have migrated to into the same sort of country they fled.

And they are actively doing it all over the globe.
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Gnads
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Re: foundations
Reply #173 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 11:04am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:58pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:55pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:50pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:46pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 1:45pm:
Immigration will always be an easy target for politicians to leverage against their opposition.

The obvious reason is instinctive human suspicion of the other.

The next reason is the assimilation issues that invariably arise among post-1st generation immigrants who are forced to take on the challenges of having a foot in both culture-camps that can often spill over into antisocial and/'or criminal behaviour.




yes but see my Reply #80.

Immigration has been a taboo subject and even now
it only got mentioned AFTER the Dunkley by-election
by the shadow immigration minister.



Yes, well, the one caveat to that is when societies are faced with potential demographic collapse - heard of 'populate or perish'?

Societies cannot survive where the birthrate drops below replacement level and does not recover.



Sure - we need some immigration but not millions of people in only a few years.


'millions of people in only a few years', eh!

Define 'only a few years'... 60? or 6?


1.6 million from 2023 to 2026

hows that?  nearly 2 million in 3 years.

Utter stupidity.
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Gnads
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Re: foundations
Reply #174 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 11:07am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:12pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:07pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:58pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:55pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:50pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:46pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 1:45pm:
Immigration will always be an easy target for politicians to leverage against their opposition.

The obvious reason is instinctive human suspicion of the other.

The next reason is the assimilation issues that invariably arise among post-1st generation immigrants who are forced to take on the challenges of having a foot in both culture-camps that can often spill over into antisocial and/'or criminal behaviour.




yes but see my Reply #80.

Immigration has been a taboo subject and even now
it only got mentioned AFTER the Dunkley by-election
by the shadow immigration minister.



Yes, well, the one caveat to that is when societies are faced with potential demographic collapse - heard of 'populate or perish'?

Societies cannot survive where the birthrate drops below replacement level and does not recover.



Sure - we need some immigration but not millions of people in only a few years.


'millions of people in only a few years', eh!

Define 'only a few years'... 60? or 6?



see my Reply #80.

"but I can tell you what's too high -
1.6 million people coming into this country over 4 years"

Do you have an optimal figure in mind over 4 years?


How about 160,000 ?

That's plenty .... considering there's nowhere for them to live.
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Gnads
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Re: foundations
Reply #175 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 11:09am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:26pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:18pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:12pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:07pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:58pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:55pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:50pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:46pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 1:45pm:
Immigration will always be an easy target for politicians to leverage against their opposition.

The obvious reason is instinctive human suspicion of the other.

The next reason is the assimilation issues that invariably arise among post-1st generation immigrants who are forced to take on the challenges of having a foot in both culture-camps that can often spill over into antisocial and/'or criminal behaviour.




yes but see my Reply #80.

Immigration has been a taboo subject and even now
it only got mentioned AFTER the Dunkley by-election
by the shadow immigration minister.



Yes, well, the one caveat to that is when societies are faced with potential demographic collapse - heard of 'populate or perish'?

Societies cannot survive where the birthrate drops below replacement level and does not recover.



Sure - we need some immigration but not millions of people in only a few years.


'millions of people in only a few years', eh!

Define 'only a few years'... 60? or 6?



see my Reply #80.

"but I can tell you what's too high -
1.6 million people coming into this country over 4 years"

Do you have an optimal figure in mind over 4 years?



Whatever is required to fulfill jobs that can not be secured after advertising in Australia.
Could be perhaps 100,000 over 4 years?


You're pulling figures out of your arse!!


And where did the 1.6 million figure come from?

Out of a Politicians/ the Labor Parties arse?
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Re: foundations
Reply #176 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 11:11am
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 11:07am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:12pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:07pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:58pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:55pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:50pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 2:46pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 1:45pm:
Immigration will always be an easy target for politicians to leverage against their opposition.

The obvious reason is instinctive human suspicion of the other.

The next reason is the assimilation issues that invariably arise among post-1st generation immigrants who are forced to take on the challenges of having a foot in both culture-camps that can often spill over into antisocial and/'or criminal behaviour.




yes but see my Reply #80.

Immigration has been a taboo subject and even now
it only got mentioned AFTER the Dunkley by-election
by the shadow immigration minister.



Yes, well, the one caveat to that is when societies are faced with potential demographic collapse - heard of 'populate or perish'?

Societies cannot survive where the birthrate drops below replacement level and does not recover.



Sure - we need some immigration but not millions of people in only a few years.


'millions of people in only a few years', eh!

Define 'only a few years'... 60? or 6?



see my Reply #80.

"but I can tell you what's too high -
1.6 million people coming into this country over 4 years"

Do you have an optimal figure in mind over 4 years?


How about 160,000 ?

That's plenty .... considering there's nowhere for them to live.




160,000 is way too f_cking high
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Gnads
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Re: foundations
Reply #177 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 11:12am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:46pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:41pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:39pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:30pm:
We have to start somewhere -
make it 100,000 then - no more.

What's the alternative - bring in 2 million rickshaw drivers?

Do you know anything about the Australian immigration process?

Ask an immigrant.




No - but 1.6 million people came into this country over the last 4 years
and that is only what they've admitted to.

That's equivalent to a city the size of Adelaide.

Where are they living?

Given nearly all of them will possess high-end required skills, in middle-class to upper-middle-class houses, I'd bet.

Should people in rural Australia go without doctors, healthcare workers, police etc... due to curbing immigration for its own sake?



Nearly all of them? Grin

What a load of bollocks.
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Re: foundations
Reply #178 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 11:22am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 5th, 2024 at 10:03am:
Why are you confused about the value assigned to money?

Quote:
"Human rights" - based on belief in "natural individual rights" which don't exist


What if it is based on something other than your strawman?


Now we are getting somewhere: "Rights" based on something other than Classical Liberalism's delusional "natural individual rights" - whether a "strawman" or not, let's read on.

Quote:
The whole point of an intersubjective reality....


Now you are separating concept from function; we already know the concept itself - "shared BELIEF" (according to you) - is flawed, so now you want to move on to consider what it's "point" is...ie what you want "shared belief"  to achieve. 


Quote:
....is that it becomes real because of the belief, regardless of what basis that belief has.


There's your error; I insist on an examination of reality itself (as it affects interpersonal relationships), you insist on raising belief to the status of reality and proceeding from there.

I reject that non-rational approach. 

Quote:
Criticising the basis for the belief does not change the reality that comes from it.


Addressed and refuted above. Reality based on belief is irrational.

Quote:
Just like complaining that money is invented "out of thin air" does not change the reality of its value.


I mentioned money because the public has no idea about its nature; the common belief that fiat currencies are bad because they are not based on the gold standard is an example of that flawed thinking/belief.

btw, I'm not complaining about the fact money is created out of thin air, I'm urging currency-issuing governments to reclaim that money-creation power from private money lenders who currently have the sole right to create money as debt.  Currency-issuing governments need to fund themselves, so they are not forced to beg for "taxpayer money". 

As for the "value" of fiat money,  it comes from the nation's real resources and productivity of the people. Not illusory.....unlike Bitcoin, a ponzi scheme; be ready for the next collapse in 'value' if you are an investor.

Quote:
Would money suddenly become an illusion if people thought it's value came from God,


No; but not seeing the reality would certainly result in  flawed economic policy...


Quote:
aliens, magic, or clever paperwork? You are criticising your own (deliberate?) misunderstanding of what human rights are, nothing more.


Refuted at the top of this post.
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Gnads
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Re: foundations
Reply #179 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 11:27am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 4:05pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:51pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:46pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:41pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:39pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 3:30pm:
We have to start somewhere -
make it 100,000 then - no more.

What's the alternative - bring in 2 million rickshaw drivers?

Do you know anything about the Australian immigration process?

Ask an immigrant.




No - but 1.6 million people came into this country over the last 4 years
and that is only what they've admitted to.

That's equivalent to a city the size of Adelaide.

Where are they living?

Given nearly all of them will possess high-end required skills, in middle-class to upper-middle-class houses, I'd bet.

Should people in rural Australia go without doctors, healthcare workers, police etc... due to curbing immigration for its own sake?



Come on - most of them are in the big cities and
many are living 6 at a time in one bedroom flats.   Roll Eyes


6 at a time in one bedroom flats. eh!

And you know that because...?

If your region had a shortage of doctors, healthcare workers, police etc... would be ok with those kinds of immigrants in your area?

How do immigrants affect you personally?



Here's a little example to the rorting going on with 457 Visa rorting in theis country.

Aged Care :-

There is an aged care facility near me that was built & run by Pres(Presbyterian)Care .... they have sold out to a Corporate Aged Care company.

Attached to the care facility are 24 two bedroom units that are for independent living residents.

A month ago representatives of the new owners(AVEO is involved) turned up and gave evictions notices to all independent living residents requiring they leave by a date in May 2024. They had been previously told by the new owners late last year they had no worries this would not happen.

The company intends to use the units to house 457 Visa workers/staff for the Care facility next door and another facility they now own(former govt) over town.

These people have no where to go.

And to top it off this company will get govt subsidies & the 457 Visa workers will get govt assistance to pay their rent.

Every tax payer foots the bill for mass migration when there is no housing & a cost of living crisis.

And then problem of increased rental non availability for the homeless.
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