Australian Politics Forum - Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty

freediver

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Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #15 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:36pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Has it occurred to you that the pro-racists might be feeding you red herrings and pointless BS to distract you from the real issues?

It has occurred to me that a tenacious and fixated obsession with culture for its own sake leads to discord and division.

And yet you are fixated on it.

Can you explain why you think any of the points you have raised here matter?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #16 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:43pm

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Has it occurred to you that the pro-racists might be feeding you red herrings and pointless BS to distract you from the real issues?

It has occurred to me that a tenacious and fixated obsession with culture for its own sake leads to discord and division.

And yet you are fixated on it.

Can you explain why you think any of the points you have raised here matter?

What is it we expect of immigrants who ask of us that they become citizens?

Is it that they assimilate and become Australians?

Why would that be?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #17 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:49pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Has it occurred to you that the pro-racists might be feeding you red herrings and pointless BS to distract you from the real issues?

It has occurred to me that a tenacious and fixated obsession with culture for its own sake leads to discord and division.

And yet you are fixated on it.

Can you explain why you think any of the points you have raised here matter?

What is it we expect of immigrants who ask of us that they become citizens?

Is it that they assimilate and become Australians?

Why would that be?

If it's true that Maori activists are attempting to redefine NZ as an ethnostate, then that does not bode well for democracy in NZ.

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freediver

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Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #18 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:51pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Has it occurred to you that the pro-racists might be feeding you red herrings and pointless BS to distract you from the real issues?

It has occurred to me that a tenacious and fixated obsession with culture for its own sake leads to discord and division.

And yet you are fixated on it.

Can you explain why you think any of the points you have raised here matter?

What is it we expect of immigrants who ask of us that they become citizens?

Is it that they assimilate and become Australians?

Why would that be?

Is that a no?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #19 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:58pm

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Has it occurred to you that the pro-racists might be feeding you red herrings and pointless BS to distract you from the real issues?

It has occurred to me that a tenacious and fixated obsession with culture for its own sake leads to discord and division.

And yet you are fixated on it.

Can you explain why you think any of the points you have raised here matter?

What is it we expect of immigrants who ask of us that they become citizens?

Is it that they assimilate and become Australians?

Why would that be?

Is that a no?

That's a yes.

Ethnoculture can only be practised by members of that ethnicity.

To associate Maori ethnoculture as superior to mainstream NZ culture, to impose it on the state, and to support it with historical fiction, is to disenfranchise all other citizens of non-Maori descent.

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freediver

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Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #20 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 3:35pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:58pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Has it occurred to you that the pro-racists might be feeding you red herrings and pointless BS to distract you from the real issues?

It has occurred to me that a tenacious and fixated obsession with culture for its own sake leads to discord and division.

And yet you are fixated on it.

Can you explain why you think any of the points you have raised here matter?

What is it we expect of immigrants who ask of us that they become citizens?

Is it that they assimilate and become Australians?

Why would that be?

Is that a no?

That's a yes.

Ethnoculture can only be practised by members of that ethnicity.

To associate Maori ethnoculture as superior to mainstream NZ culture, to impose it on the state, and to support it with historical fiction, is to disenfranchise all other citizens of non-Maori descent.

I didn't ask you to attempt to bring up something relevant. I asked you to explain why you think any of the points you had already raised here matter. Can you?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 57970 Gender:	Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty Reply #21 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 3:52pm Wow MeisterEccy. Really enjoyable reading your posts. You've either known about this stuff for a while, or you've done your homework recently?? Regardless, Kudos to you. You're right in all points you have made. Well done. Here I was thinking I was hitting the sweet spot.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

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Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #22 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:21pm

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 3:35pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:58pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Has it occurred to you that the pro-racists might be feeding you red herrings and pointless BS to distract you from the real issues?

It has occurred to me that a tenacious and fixated obsession with culture for its own sake leads to discord and division.

And yet you are fixated on it.

Can you explain why you think any of the points you have raised here matter?

What is it we expect of immigrants who ask of us that they become citizens?

Is it that they assimilate and become Australians?

Why would that be?

Is that a no?

That's a yes.

Ethnoculture can only be practised by members of that ethnicity.

To associate Maori ethnoculture as superior to mainstream NZ culture, to impose it on the state, and to support it with historical fiction, is to disenfranchise all other citizens of non-Maori descent.

I didn't ask you to attempt to bring up something relevant. I asked you to explain why you think any of the points you had already raised here matter. Can you?

The points I have raised have been raised by Winston Peters in NZ Parliament to argue against imposing Maori ethnoculture on the state in aid of rendering NZ an ethnostate and concocting or advancing historical fiction to drive it.

I have read some of your complaints about Australian Aboriginal culture being imposed on you, so... hypocrisy much?

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 57970 Gender:	Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty Reply #23 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:24pm Anyone spot the tricky-trap in this Topic yet? ...
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

freediver

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Posts: 53355
At my desk.

Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #24 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:45pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:21pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 3:35pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:58pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Has it occurred to you that the pro-racists might be feeding you red herrings and pointless BS to distract you from the real issues?

It has occurred to me that a tenacious and fixated obsession with culture for its own sake leads to discord and division.

And yet you are fixated on it.

Can you explain why you think any of the points you have raised here matter?

What is it we expect of immigrants who ask of us that they become citizens?

Is it that they assimilate and become Australians?

Why would that be?

Is that a no?

That's a yes.

Ethnoculture can only be practised by members of that ethnicity.

To associate Maori ethnoculture as superior to mainstream NZ culture, to impose it on the state, and to support it with historical fiction, is to disenfranchise all other citizens of non-Maori descent.

I didn't ask you to attempt to bring up something relevant. I asked you to explain why you think any of the points you had already raised here matter. Can you?

The points I have raised have been raised by Winston Peters in NZ Parliament

Are you saying you do not understand why they matter, you are just parroting a NZ politician?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Australian Politics

Posts: 17122
Gender: male

Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #25 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:49pm

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:21pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 3:35pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:58pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Has it occurred to you that the pro-racists might be feeding you red herrings and pointless BS to distract you from the real issues?

It has occurred to me that a tenacious and fixated obsession with culture for its own sake leads to discord and division.

And yet you are fixated on it.

Can you explain why you think any of the points you have raised here matter?

What is it we expect of immigrants who ask of us that they become citizens?

Is it that they assimilate and become Australians?

Why would that be?

Is that a no?

That's a yes.

Ethnoculture can only be practised by members of that ethnicity.

To associate Maori ethnoculture as superior to mainstream NZ culture, to impose it on the state, and to support it with historical fiction, is to disenfranchise all other citizens of non-Maori descent.

I didn't ask you to attempt to bring up something relevant. I asked you to explain why you think any of the points you had already raised here matter. Can you?

The points I have raised have been raised by Winston Peters in NZ Parliament

Are you saying you do not understand why they matter, you are just parroting a NZ politician?

Imposing historical fiction on the citizenry is the ground on which the argument for an ethnostate is founded.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 57970 Gender:	Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty Reply #26 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:53pm Remember FD. Oceania and Africa are NOT like Sth America and Sahul (Aust, Melanesia, etc). ...that includes with 'Politics'.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

freediver

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www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53355
At my desk.

Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #27 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 9:14pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:49pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:21pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 3:35pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:58pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Has it occurred to you that the pro-racists might be feeding you red herrings and pointless BS to distract you from the real issues?

It has occurred to me that a tenacious and fixated obsession with culture for its own sake leads to discord and division.

And yet you are fixated on it.

Can you explain why you think any of the points you have raised here matter?

What is it we expect of immigrants who ask of us that they become citizens?

Is it that they assimilate and become Australians?

Why would that be?

Is that a no?

That's a yes.

Ethnoculture can only be practised by members of that ethnicity.

To associate Maori ethnoculture as superior to mainstream NZ culture, to impose it on the state, and to support it with historical fiction, is to disenfranchise all other citizens of non-Maori descent.

I didn't ask you to attempt to bring up something relevant. I asked you to explain why you think any of the points you had already raised here matter. Can you?

The points I have raised have been raised by Winston Peters in NZ Parliament

Are you saying you do not understand why they matter, you are just parroting a NZ politician?

Imposing historical fiction on the citizenry is the ground on which the argument for an ethnostate is founded.

What historical fiction?

And why would you need historical fiction for an ethnostate?

It seems to me that you are just confused about the real reasons for what is going on, and have somehow convinced yourself that it is the consequence of a few petty misunderstandings like the definition of a Maori word. Can you explain why you think anything would change if the truth came out? And why you think New Zealanders cannot just check wikipedia like I did?

And why are you so tenaciously fixated on these tokens of culture?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Posts: 17122
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Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #28 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 9:29pm

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 9:14pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:49pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 4:21pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 3:35pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:58pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 2:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:36pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 10^th, 2024 at 1:29pm:

Has it occurred to you that the pro-racists might be feeding you red herrings and pointless BS to distract you from the real issues?

It has occurred to me that a tenacious and fixated obsession with culture for its own sake leads to discord and division.

And yet you are fixated on it.

Can you explain why you think any of the points you have raised here matter?

What is it we expect of immigrants who ask of us that they become citizens?

Is it that they assimilate and become Australians?

Why would that be?

Is that a no?

That's a yes.

Ethnoculture can only be practised by members of that ethnicity.

To associate Maori ethnoculture as superior to mainstream NZ culture, to impose it on the state, and to support it with historical fiction, is to disenfranchise all other citizens of non-Maori descent.

I didn't ask you to attempt to bring up something relevant. I asked you to explain why you think any of the points you had already raised here matter. Can you?

The points I have raised have been raised by Winston Peters in NZ Parliament

Are you saying you do not understand why they matter, you are just parroting a NZ politician?

Imposing historical fiction on the citizenry is the ground on which the argument for an ethnostate is founded.

What historical fiction?

And why would you need historical fiction for an ethnostate?

It seems to me that you are just confused about the real reasons for what is going on, and have somehow convinced yourself that it is the consequence of a few petty misunderstandings like the definition of a Maori word. Can you explain why you think anything would change if the truth came out? And why you think New Zealanders cannot just check wikipedia like I did?

And why are you so tenaciously fixated on these tokens of culture?

I think it's you who does not know what is going on in NZ.

Maori activists agitated for the Maori language to be, not only an official language in NZ, but the first language of NZ - and they won. This is despite over 90% of kiwis being unable to speak Maori.

This is now being controversially reversed by the new government, which has caused anger within the activist community.

Again, Winston Peters has spearheaded the dismantling of the proposed activists' ethnostate's infrastructure, up to and including the repudiating of the term Aotearoa being used as the name of the country on the basis that it is not the historical Maori name for the country - as there was none.

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freediver

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Re: Kiwis v Maori/British Treaty
Reply #29 - Feb 10^th, 2024 at 9:37pm

Quote:

up to and including the repudiating of the term Aotearoa being used as the name of the country on the basis that it is not the historical Maori name for the country - as there was none.

Again, even wikipedia explains the original meaning of the term.

What makes you think that confusion around the meaning of this word is the basis for what is happening today, and that correcting the public's understanding would change anything, other than perhaps the use of the word? Have you simply believed without question a politician's explanation for why his prattling on about historical trivia is so important? Or can you actually join the dots and make a rational argument?

Or is it that you think the word itself is the problem?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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