Australian Politics Forum - Trouble with China

Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 45989	Re: AUKUS Reply #180 - Dec 30^th, 2025 at 10:02pm Gibbon has largely been discredited. I fail to see how a book ancient Rome can inform anyone about Chinese history, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk...
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 116565 Melbourne Gender:	Re: AUKUS Reply #181 - Dec 30^th, 2025 at 10:07pm Brian Ross wrote on Dec 30^th, 2025 at 10:02pm: Gibbon has largely been discredited. I fail to see how a book ancient Rome can inform anyone about Chinese history, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Look for patterns, sequences of events, recurring themes.
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Brian Ross

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Re: AUKUS
Reply #182 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 10:32am

Bobby. wrote on Dec 30^th, 2025 at 10:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 30^th, 2025 at 10:02pm:

Gibbon has largely been discredited. I fail to see how a book ancient Rome can inform anyone about Chinese history, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Look for patterns, sequences of events, recurring themes.

What does Gibbon say about lao tzu's thoughts or Sun Tzu's The Art of War ? Anything at all? Both are central to understanding Chinese beliefs. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: AUKUS
Reply #183 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 10:51am

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2025 at 10:32am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 30^th, 2025 at 10:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 30^th, 2025 at 10:02pm:

Gibbon has largely been discredited. I fail to see how a book ancient Rome can inform anyone about Chinese history, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Look for patterns, sequences of events, recurring themes.

What does Gibbon say about lao tzu's thoughts or Sun Tzu's The Art of War ? Anything at all? Both are central to understanding Chinese beliefs. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Google AI:

Edward Gibbon does not specifically mention the Chinese philosophers Lao Tzu or Sun Tzu or their works, the Tao Te Ching and The Art of War, in his most famous work, The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. His writings focus almost exclusively on Roman and European history, philosophy, and military matters.
Gibbon's historical scope and sources were primarily Western (Greek and Roman classics), and ancient Chinese texts were not part of the standard historical or philosophical canon for 18th-century British historians.
While Gibbon makes many observations on war, politics, and human nature, these are rooted in Western thought and history, not Eastern philosophy. The search results include quotes by Gibbon on the themes of war and politics, but they do not connect his ideas to those of Sun Tzu or Lao Tzu.

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Bobby.

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Re: AUKUS
Reply #184 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 10:52am

Bobby. wrote on Dec 30^th, 2025 at 10:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 30^th, 2025 at 10:02pm:

Gibbon has largely been discredited. I fail to see how a book ancient Rome can inform anyone about Chinese history, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Look for patterns, sequences of events, recurring themes.

Look at what the West is doing rather than the Chinese.

Could our decline be not taking the Chinese seriously enough?

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Brian Ross

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Re: AUKUS
Reply #185 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 11:17am

Bobby. wrote on Dec 31^st, 2025 at 10:52am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 30^th, 2025 at 10:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 30^th, 2025 at 10:02pm:

Gibbon has largely been discredited. I fail to see how a book ancient Rome can inform anyone about Chinese history, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Look for patterns, sequences of events, recurring themes.

Look at what the West is doing rather than the Chinese.

Could our decline be not taking the Chinese seriously enough?

Who claims we are, "declining", Bobby? You? Fox News? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 116565 Melbourne Gender:	Re: AUKUS Reply #186 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 1:20pm Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2025 at 11:17am: Who claims we are, "declining", Bobby? You? Fox News? Tsk, tsk, tsk... In Korea we lose, in Vietnam we lose, in Afghanistan we lose, in Iraq we lose.
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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 45989	Re: AUKUS Reply #187 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 2:23pm We lost because we didn't mobilise to win, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk...
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Bobby.

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Re: AUKUS
Reply #188 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 3:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2025 at 2:23pm:

We lost because we didn't mobilise to win, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

In Korea we lost because we helped the Russians and Chinese from WW2 -
by helping communists to win - they turned on us and made us lose.

In Vietnam we lost from the same thing but we also created the Viet Kong
to fight the Japs in WW2 and they turned on us.

In Afghanistan we lost because we created Al Qaeda and
it's leader Osama Bin Laden to fight the Russians but they turned on us.

In Iraq - we lost and that created ISIS - still fighting them today - Bondi beach.
We created Saddam Hussein's power to fight the Iranians -
but he turned on us too.

Can you see patterns, sequences of events and recurring themes?

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Brian Ross

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Re: AUKUS
Reply #189 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 5:20pm

Bobby. wrote on Dec 31^st, 2025 at 3:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2025 at 2:23pm:

We lost because we didn't mobilise to win, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

In Korea we lost because we helped the Russians and Chinese from WW2 -
by helping communists to win - they turned on us and made us lose.

In Vietnam we lost from the same thing but we also created the Viet Kong
to fight the Japs in WW2 and they turned on us.

In Afghanistan we lost because we created Al Qaeda and
it's leader Osama Bin Laden to fight the Russians but they turned on us.

In Iraq - we lost and that created ISIS - still fighting them today - Bondi beach.
We created Saddam Hussein's power to fight the Iranians -
but he turned on us too.

Can you see patterns, sequences of events and recurring themes?

I can see that we did not mobilise the nation to oppose them. Afghanistan we weren't fighting Al Qaeda. In Iraq we were not fighting ISIS. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: AUKUS
Reply #190 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 7:04pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2025 at 5:20pm:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 31^st, 2025 at 3:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2025 at 2:23pm:

We lost because we didn't mobilise to win, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

In Korea we lost because we helped the Russians and Chinese from WW2 -
by helping communists to win - they turned on us and made us lose.

In Vietnam we lost from the same thing but we also created the Viet Kong
to fight the Japs in WW2 and they turned on us.

In Afghanistan we lost because we created Al Qaeda and
it's leader Osama Bin Laden to fight the Russians but they turned on us.

In Iraq - we lost and that created ISIS - still fighting them today - Bondi beach.
We created Saddam Hussein's power to fight the Iranians -
but he turned on us too.

Can you see patterns, sequences of events and recurring themes?

I can see that we did not mobilise the nation to oppose them. Afghanistan we weren't fighting Al Qaeda. In Iraq we were not fighting ISIS. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Al Qaeda were US allies but they did 9/11. Roll Eyes

The Taliban protected Al Qaeda right up till now even after a 20 year war
which was lost.

Saddam was stopping forces like ISIS but he was hanged after the US invasion -
then ISIS took over the Middle East.
They are still a problem to this day.
Bibi told us that if Iraq was invaded it would bring about peace. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 45989	Re: AUKUS Reply #191 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 7:50pm You are straying from the topic of the thread, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk...
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Bobby.

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Re: AUKUS
Reply #192 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 8:03pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2025 at 7:50pm:

You are straying from the topic of the thread, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Only because you seemed to require clarification of some obvious points -
well - they were obvious for me.

AUKUS will not save us - it's a diversion of money we need to fund our own defence -
to build our own defence industries.

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Bobby.

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Re: AUKUS
Reply #193 - Dec 31^st, 2025 at 8:10pm

The Chinese are ramping up pressure for the New Year.

Dec 30, 2025

China continued on December 30 for a second day its live-fire military exercises around Taiwan.
The exercises involved 130 military jets and 22 warships in the vicinity of the island in the space of 24 hours.
Beijing considers the self-ruled island part of its territory and
claims it is acting against the provocation of separatist forces in Taiwan.