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AUKUS (Read 14792 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #195 - Dec 8th, 2025 at 12:10pm
 
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Belgarion
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #196 - Dec 8th, 2025 at 12:23pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 8th, 2025 at 12:10pm:


Because most Australians understand the benefits. Only the noisy anti-Australian minority are against it.
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Brian Ross
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #197 - Dec 9th, 2025 at 9:55am
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #198 - Dec 11th, 2025 at 10:21am
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #199 - Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:44pm
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #200 - Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:52pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:44pm:


Yes: the cost of protection demanded by the mafia US...
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #201 - Dec 13th, 2025 at 3:38pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:44pm:


Yes: the cost of protection demanded by the mafia US...


I think the PRC is largely responsible for our purchase of Nuclear boats.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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thegreatdivide
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #202 - Dec 13th, 2025 at 5:00pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 3:38pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:44pm:


Yes: the cost of protection demanded by the mafia US...


I think the PRC is largely responsible for our purchase of Nuclear boats.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Blaming China for wanting to assert UN res 2758?

The resolution, passed on 25 October 1971, recognized the People's Republic of China (PRC) as "the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations" and removed "the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek" (referring to the then Kuomintang regime as the dominant party in the Republic of China (ROC), whose central government had retreated to Taiwan from the mainland) from the United Nations.

Note: the ROC, after losing the civil war in 1949, retreated to Taiwan which had been returned to China after Japan's defeat in 1945.

Of course Kissinger didn't really think it through,  when Nixon recognised the PRC in 1971...
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« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2025 at 5:06pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Belgarion
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #203 - Dec 13th, 2025 at 7:14pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 5:00pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 3:38pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:44pm:


Yes: the cost of protection demanded by the mafia US...


I think the PRC is largely responsible for our purchase of Nuclear boats.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Blaming China for wanting to assert UN res 2758?

The resolution, passed on 25 October 1971, recognized the People's Republic of China (PRC) as "the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations" and removed "the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek" (referring to the then Kuomintang regime as the dominant party in the Republic of China (ROC), whose central government had retreated to Taiwan from the mainland) from the United Nations.

Note: the ROC, after losing the civil war in 1949, retreated to Taiwan which had been returned to China after Japan's defeat in 1945.

Of course Kissinger didn't really think it through,  when Nixon recognised the PRC in 1971...



The increasingly aggressive behaviour of the PRC is the problem and no quoting of utterly irrelevant UN statements will change that.  Roll Eyes
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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thegreatdivide
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #204 - Dec 14th, 2025 at 9:42am
 
Belgarion wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 7:14pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 5:00pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 3:38pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:44pm:


Yes: the cost of protection demanded by the mafia US...


I think the PRC is largely responsible for our purchase of Nuclear boats.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Blaming China for wanting to assert UN res 2758?

The resolution, passed on 25 October 1971, recognized the People's Republic of China (PRC) as "the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations" and removed "the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek" (referring to the then Kuomintang regime as the dominant party in the Republic of China (ROC), whose central government had retreated to Taiwan from the mainland) from the United Nations.

Note: the ROC, after losing the civil war in 1949, retreated to Taiwan which had been returned to China after Japan's defeat in 1945.

Of course Kissinger didn't really think it through,  when Nixon recognised the PRC in 1971...



The increasingly aggressive behaviour of the PRC is the problem and no quoting of utterly irrelevant UN statements will change that.  Roll Eyes


Your error: Taiwan is Chinese territory; just because  you don't like one-party government doesn't mean you can accuse the PRC of being 'aggressive" merely  because it defends Chinese sovereignty.
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Belgarion
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #205 - Dec 14th, 2025 at 10:02am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14th, 2025 at 9:42am:
Your error: Taiwan is Chinese territory; just because  you don't like one-party government doesn't mean you can accuse the PRC of being 'aggressive" merely  because it defends Chinese sovereignty.


So Taiwan is Chinese territory? The people there would beg to differ, along with the people of Tibet, and lets not forget the nations bordering the South China Sea.  Roll Eyes
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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thegreatdivide
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #206 - Dec 14th, 2025 at 10:30am
 
Belgarion wrote on Dec 14th, 2025 at 10:02am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14th, 2025 at 9:42am:
Your error: Taiwan is Chinese territory; just because  you don't like one-party government doesn't mean you can accuse the PRC of being 'aggressive" merely  because it defends Chinese sovereignty.


So Taiwan is Chinese territory?


Yes, with Chinese sovereignty established during the Qing dynasty, occupied by Japan 1895-1945, and restored to China after Japan's defeat.

Quote:
The people there would beg to differ,


Until recently the ROC - having retreated  to Taiwan in 1949 -  claimed to be the sole government of China.

Just because the DPP (in the ROC) have now recognised reality, doesn't mean they can now decide to split from China. 

Quote:
along with the people of Tibet, and lets not forget the nations bordering the South China Sea.  Roll Eyes


Yeh - well some  Scots want to split from the UK....; but smart Tibetans, like smart Abos , recognise the benefits of the economically superior culture. 

(And Tibet also acknowledged Qing sovereignty).

The SCS disputes are exacerbated by US bases in the Philippines, Japan and Okinawa.   


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Brian Ross
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #207 - Dec 14th, 2025 at 10:53am
 
Tibet, like Taiwan had a separate government for most of its existence.  We should not forget the wishes of the majority of the inhabitants to remain separate from the PRC.  The PRC can be intimidating in how it treats independent minded people.  It has sought to intimidate various nations over the decades.  They are thus far failing in the South China Sea and the South Pacific.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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thegreatdivide
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #208 - Dec 14th, 2025 at 11:24am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2025 at 10:53am:
Tibet, like Taiwan had a separate government for most of its existence. 


The facts, from the days of empire ("might is right")

(google)

The Mongol-led Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) incorporated Tibet into its empire, establishing administrative oversight through the Bureau of Buddhist and Tibetan Affairs (Xuanzheng Yuan), creating a "priest-patron" relationship where Mongol rulers were patrons of Tibetan Buddhism, but Tibet maintained a degree of internal autonomy under Sakya lamas, with the Yuan exercising ultimate administrative and military authority. This established a historical precedent for later Chinese claims of sovereignty, though the nature of rule varied significantly across subsequent dynasties like the Ming and Qing.

As for Taiwan, the inhabitants were still hunter-gatherers in the 17th century before the Qing established sovereignty (like the natives in Oz in 1788).

Quote:
We should not forget the wishes of the majority of the inhabitants to remain separate from the PRC.


(google)

Dalai Lama's Stance: The 14th Dalai Lama advocates the "Middle Way Approach," seeking genuine autonomy for Tibet within China, not independence, to protect Tibetan culture and rights.

Quote:
The PRC can be intimidating in how it treats independent minded people.


.....while democratic governments are more subversive in the way they entrench generational disadvantage and poverty, under the guise of "freedom".

Quote:
It has sought to intimidate various nations over the decades.  They are thus far failing in the South China Sea and the South Pacific.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


I think South Pacific islanders are pretty good at playing the geopolitical competition between Western powers and the PRC, for their own advantage.

As for the SCS, China wants peace with relevant ASEAN countries, but US bases everywhere in the area complicate matters.


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« Last Edit: Dec 14th, 2025 at 11:42am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: AUKUS
Reply #209 - Dec 14th, 2025 at 12:45pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14th, 2025 at 11:24am:
[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1704363941/207#207 date=1765673582]
As for the SCS, China wants peace with relevant ASEAN countries, but US bases everywhere in the area complicate matters. 


As suspicious as I am of US interests, I am even more suspicious of the PRC.  I appreciate the sale of Nuclear boats to Oz.  They are useful to us.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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