Australian Politics Forum - Cash v Computer

Bobby.

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #60 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:56pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:43pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:30pm:

Quote:

The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals.

In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes.

After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market.

Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track.

Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange.

For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange.

Many black markets around the world use physical US dollars.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #61 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:58pm

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:49pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:43pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:30pm:

Quote:

The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals.

In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes.

After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market.

Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track.

Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange.

For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange.

The "Black market" has existed before "precious metals" were even known by humans. There has always been transactions occurring secretly between individuals off to the side, outside the knowledge of the main "group". Everything from sex to drugs, food, carvings, shells, coconuts, cars, labour, influence and everything in between you can think of through history and all it's various payment system efforts. It's not going anywhere, ever.

Markets require civilisation. What happened pre-civilisation stays in the caves.

However, the commodities you mentioned - carvings, shells, coconuts - were once money. Not much use for them now as money, I'd bet.

Others - influence, sex and food - even chimps can manage secretive transactions involving those, hardly a market.

How many cars do you own that you could use for under-the-table transactions?

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Bobby.

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #62 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:58pm

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:49pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:43pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:30pm:

Quote:

The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals.

In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes.

After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market.

Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track.

Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange.

For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange.

The "Black market" existed before "precious metals" were even known by humans. There has always been transactions occurring secretly between individuals off to the side, outside the knowledge of the main "group". Everything from sex to drugs, food, carvings, shells, coconuts, cars, labour, influence and everything in between you can think of through history and all it's various payment system efforts. It's not going anywhere, ever.

I read once in Melbourne that a female renter was providing
sexual services to her landlord when she couldn't pay the rent.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #63 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 7:00pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:58pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:49pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:43pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:30pm:

Quote:

The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals.

In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes.

After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market.

Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track.

Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange.

For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange.

The "Black market" existed before "precious metals" were even known by humans. There has always been transactions occurring secretly between individuals off to the side, outside the knowledge of the main "group". Everything from sex to drugs, food, carvings, shells, coconuts, cars, labour, influence and everything in between you can think of through history and all it's various payment system efforts. It's not going anywhere, ever.

I read once in Melbourne that a female renter was providing
sexual services to her landlord when she couldn't pay the rent.

I find that hard to swallow.

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GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #64 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 7:01pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:56pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:43pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:30pm:

Quote:

The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals.

In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes.

After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market.

Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track.

Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange.

For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange.

Many black markets around the world use physical US dollars.

You need a steady and reliable supply of them.

BTW, banks have tightened up on the hoarding of US dollars in safety deposit boxes.

Of course, the US is also moving towards a cashless society, so they will soon be gone too.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #65 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 7:03pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:58pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:49pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:43pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:30pm:

Quote:

The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals.

In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes.

After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market.

Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track.

Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange.

For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange.

The "Black market" existed before "precious metals" were even known by humans. There has always been transactions occurring secretly between individuals off to the side, outside the knowledge of the main "group". Everything from sex to drugs, food, carvings, shells, coconuts, cars, labour, influence and everything in between you can think of through history and all it's various payment system efforts. It's not going anywhere, ever.

I read once in Melbourne that a female renter was providing
sexual services to her landlord when she couldn't pay the rent.

Weren't you once managing an apartment block in Melbourne??!!

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Jasin

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #66 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 8:48pm

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 3:06pm:

Jasin wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 2:48pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 2:44pm:

Really it's about control. In order to have complete control of the populace and it's spending behaviour. The argument is; that requires complete control. My argument is you will never have COMPLETE control, EVER. As such retaining the physical payment option (tracked and limited) and the benefits of that for society as described earlier, is a necessity.

Yemen has complete control of its citizens.
Every cent you spend and where. You income. Camera's following everyone in the streets. All online platforms are heavily monitored and restricted access to the outside world.
The Soviets couldn't even attain this level of 'control', beyond pointing a gun.

There is never COMPLETE control. The closest to that achievement is slavery and actual ownership of the body. Otherwise removal of cash just leads to selling sex for a meal, selling a child for a years worth of rice, selling your own labour for goods and services, buying drugs for ever more stolen goods; like your $5000 Spoodle etc etc.

I've done Volunteer work.
If I didn't get paid.
I got laid.
Volunteer work is so sociable. Wink

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Goose Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 630	Re: Cash v Computer Reply #67 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 8:52pm Damn it! There's too many comments here both funny and yet.... well not
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Jasin

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #68 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 8:55pm

Let's say this 'Cashless' Online system of Market is called the Red Market for argument's sake.

This Red Market, by going Cashless-Online ONLY will now compromise itself from the other Markets like the ever-lasting Black Market and even such things as 'Garage Sales' down the road. It will cut itself off from older markets.

It's basically a Market that now cuts itself off from other Markets like a nation that adopts isolationism away from others.
Seems Australia is the new 'Guinea Pig' Crash Test Dummy now... now that Argentina won't play ball anymore to these stupid Lefty gimmicks that have ruined them these past 20 odd years.
Australia will be highly compromised economically and 'technologically' as it is going to be a very expensive business indeed to keep this 'online only' market running effectively (for fear of utilities failing from an earthquake, storm, fire, etc).

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #69 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 9:04pm

What will probably happen in a cashless society?

In the first instance, an Australian CBDC dollar will be introduced.

People will be encouraged to adopt the new e-currency by the waiving of all fees on every transaction.

Australian CBDC dollars will not be convertible into cash.

Banks' issuing of cash will continue to decline until, sometime within the next few years, cash will only be issued in small amounts, if at all.

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Bobby.

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #70 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 9:11pm

https://www.rba.gov.au/payments-and-infrastructure/central-bank-digital-currency...

Central Bank Digital Currency

The Reserve Bank is actively researching central bank digital currency (CBDC) as a complement to existing forms of money.

The Reserve Bank currently issues two forms of money:

physical money in the form of banknotes, which can be used by households and businesses to make payments, and
digital money in the form of balances held in accounts that commercial banks and some other types of financial institutions can hold at the Reserve Bank to settle payment obligations between each other.

A CBDC would be a new digital form of money issued by the Reserve Bank. It could be designed for retail (or general purpose) use, which would be like a digital version of banknotes that is essentially universally accessible, or for wholesale use, where it is accessible only to a more limited range of wholesale market participants for use in wholesale payment and settlement systems.

A CBDC could potentially support a number of the Bank's policy objectives, including safeguarding public trust in money and promoting efficiency, safety, resilience and innovation in payment systems and financial market infrastructures.

Our research has been looking at various possible use cases, exploring the potential benefits, opportunities and challenges associated with CBDC, and examining how a CBDC could be designed and developed if a decision was ever taken to implement one. Distributed ledger technology (DLT) is one possible technology platform we have been exploring that could be used to implement a CBDC. We have been collaborating with external parties on this research and will continue to do so.

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Jasin

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #71 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 9:20pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 9:04pm:

What will probably happen in a cashless society?

In the first instance, an Australian CBDC dollar will be introduced.

People will be encouraged to adopt the new e-currency by the waiving of all fees on every transaction.

Australian CBDC dollars will not be convertible into cash.

Banks' issuing of cash will continue to decline until, sometime within the next few years, cash will only be issued in small amounts, if at all.

And after that - in flow all the 'processing' fees and surcharges because its so hard for a 'nano-second' to achieve all that hard yakka work.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #72 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 9:24pm

Jasin wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 9:20pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 9:04pm:

What will probably happen in a cashless society?

In the first instance, an Australian CBDC dollar will be introduced.

People will be encouraged to adopt the new e-currency by the waiving of all fees on every transaction.

Australian CBDC dollars will not be convertible into cash.

Banks' issuing of cash will continue to decline until, sometime within the next few years, cash will only be issued in small amounts, if at all.

And after that - in flow all the 'processing' fees and surcharges because its so hard for a 'nano-second' to achieve all that hard yakka work.

It's hard to imagine banks not being tempted to reimpose fees once the CDBC adoption process succeeds...

It's almost against human nature not to want to capitalise on easy profit opportunities.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 56851 Gender:	Re: Cash v Computer Reply #73 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 9:30pm You know it will have a hook in it. Even Television didn't last as 'free'.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Goose

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Re: Cash v Computer
Reply #74 - Apr 4^th, 2024 at 10:01pm

Central bank digital currencies are a given. They're coming and China has already pretty much fully integrated theirs internally. They are a favourite ideal for populace monetary and arguably; behavioural control. The hold up has actually really been the old wall street bankers who couldn't get their heads around the possible loss of "printing" control of the world currency. They're finally realising they could still control effectively a USDC pegged to the old dollar by which all other DC's are still effectively valued and exchanged. The whole Crypto scene has been a good indicator of this whereby every one of the thousands of DC's, including the big two BTC and ETH are still valued and exchanged according to their USD value.

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« Last Edit: Apr 4^th, 2024 at 10:23pm by Goose »

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Poll
Question: Is it smart to eradicate all physical payment options and the safety net they provide?
Yes 1 (12.5%) No 7 (87.5%) Total votes: 8 « Last Modified by: Goose on: Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 11:39pm »