Australian Politics Forum - Canada Melting Ice reveal

lee

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Canada Melting Ice reveal
Nov 24^th, 2023 at 2:07pm

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Archaeologists surveyed melting ice patches in Canada and uncovered dozens of ancient artifacts spanning 7,000 years. Photos show the “unique” — and perishable — finds.

After two winters with “extremely low snowpack,” researchers set out to survey several melting ice patches in Mount Edziza Provincial Park in the summer of 2019, according to a study published Oct. 31 in the Journal of Field Archaeology.

Mount Edziza Provincial Park is a volcanic landscape that is “extremely significant” to the Tahltan, one of Canada’s indigenous First Nations, the study said. The Tahltan have used the mountains for seasonal hunts for centuries and continue to do so today.

Previous scientists had located many “vast obsidian quarries” and obsidian artifacts in the park, but the nearby ice patches had not been studied as extensively. Researchers said they were intrigued by the possibility of finding perishable ancient artifacts preserved in the ice.

So as the ice melted under the summer sun, researchers visited nine ice patches — and found 56 perishable artifacts, the study said.

“Most of the perishable artifacts were manufactured from wood, including birch bark containers, projectile shafts, and walking staffs,” researchers said. Other artifacts were made “using animal remains include a stitched hide boot and carved antler and bone tools.”

Archaeologists found two bark containers with stitching. A photo shows one of these containers. The 2,000-year-old piece of bark is folded with two rows of stitching along one side and some of the stitching material still left in the holes, the study said.

The other “unique” bark container has sticks stitched into its sides, suggesting it was part of a reinforced basket used for transporting heavy loads. Researchers said it dated back over 1,400 years.

https://news.yahoo.com/melting-ice-reveals-dozens-7-221609873.html
Still things being uncovered by melting ice.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #1 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 4:31pm That is nice—and understandable, right? MWP—LIA—AGW or grow—freeze—thaw
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21502 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #2 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 5:34pm Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 4:31pm: That is nice—and understandable, right? MWP—LIA—AGW warming or grow—freeze—thaw Exactly. Except for AGW. And yet you are so scared of the current thaw.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #3 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 5:38pm It is thawing but it isn’t AGW. Is it the fairies at the bottom of your garden causing the thaw?
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lee

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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #4 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 5:44pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 5:38pm:

It is thawing but it isn’t AGW.

There may be some AGW. However it has not been quantified. You, for example, believe all the warming since before the Industrial Revolution, is AGW. Roll Eyes

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 5:38pm:

Is it the fairies at the bottom of your garden causing the thaw?

No, it is your little faery farts. Grin

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #5 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 5:52pm So no explanation.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21502 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #6 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 6:08pm Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 5:52pm: Posted on: Today at 3:52pm So no explanation. You mean you don't understand natural variation? Oh dear.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #7 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 6:37pm Has to be driven by something. Remember, the Milankovitch Cycle should be cooling us—natural variation would have made us colder, not hotter. TRY and understand the subject matter, lees.
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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #8 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:00pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 6:37pm:

Has to be driven by something.

Nope. What part "The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system" don't you understand? Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 6:37pm:

Remember, the Milankovitch Cycle should be cooling us—natural variation would have made is colder, not hotter.

So Milankovitch cycles may be part of the equation. It has never been said it was ALL. Roll Eyes

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 6:37pm:

TRY and understand the subject matter, lees.

I do better than you. You seem to think everything has been discovered. Roll Eyes

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #9 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:10pm No, things don’t just happen, there have to be forcings. We know the Milankovitch Cycle is cooling the area north of 65°N. That area is the fastest warming area on the globe! Natural variation explains nothing.
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Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121939 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #10 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:15pm Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:10pm: No, things don’t just happen, there have to be forcings. We know the Milankovitch Cycle is cooling the area north of 65°N. That area is the fastest warming area on the globe! Natural variation explains nothing. Any links for your above claims?
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #11 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:30pm “Physics for Dummies.” That things happen is because something MADE them happen. Basic science.
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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #12 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:32pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:30pm:

“Physics for Dummies.”

That things happen is because something MADE them happen. Basic science.

Rules:

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1612043899

Quote:

Further rules are required:

This MRB - (member run board) has higher standards than all other places at Ozpolitic.
This MRB is not a place for unsubstantiated ramblings.

Please supply a link or video for whatever you're trying to prove.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #13 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:36pm Open “Physics for Dummies” you dummy! Or refer to Newton’s Laws of Motion about an object in motion. Are you still claiming six years of tertiary education? Because that claim is busted!
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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #14 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:38pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:36pm:

Open “Physics for Dummies” you dummy!

Or refer to Newton’s Laws of Motion about an object in motion.

Are you still claiming six years of tertiary education? Because that claim is busted!

Rules:

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Don't use this forum - this MRB - to denigrate me -
or anyone else.
I reserve the right to delete, or modify any post here
if it contains abuse.
Abuse is not allowed here.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #15 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:45pm

Then don’t act like an idiot, jeez!

If things just happened my table will turn into a giraffe. . .well, surprise surprise—it is still a table.

If I started burning something under this table—the table will turn into a heap of ashes.

A bowl sitting on the table—will stay sitting on that table unless and until the table is bumped and/or overturned.

If I throw a stone up in the air—it will return to the surface at some time.

If you are MORONIC enough to doubt that things do not happen without a forcing then you are more stupid, less educated than I think now.

Don’t want to be denigrated, don’t act STUPID!

OK, ban me, I can post real Environmental topics in my MRB, peanut!

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lee

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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #16 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:45pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:10pm:

No, things don’t just happen, there have to be forcings.

So what were the "forcings" in previous ice ages? Roll Eyes

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:10pm:

We know the Milankovitch Cycle is cooling the area north of 65°N. That area is the fastest warming area on the globe!

But that ignores other factors. Why do you need to ignore other factors? Why do you think Milankovitch is the sole detwerminant?

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:10pm:

Natural variation explains nothing.

And yet it does explain a lot.

"The Earth’s climate has exhibited marked "natural" changes, with time scales varying from many millions of years down to a few years. For example:

Changes in land and ocean floor topography have had major influences on global climate at time scales of 50 million to 150 million years. (These changes influenced the patterns of absorption of incoming radiation from the sun, and affected circulation patterns in the atmosphere and oceans).
Over the last two million years the onset and recession of the great Ice Ages were probably influenced by changes in the earth’s orbit and the tilt of its axis, which caused systematic variations in the amount and distribution of solar radiation. The difference in globally averaged temperatures between glacials (“ice ages”) and interglacials is about 5°C.
Since the end of the last ice age (14,000–10,000 years ago) globally averaged surface temperatures have fluctuated over a range of up to 2°C on time scales of centuries or more. Factors influencing these changes probably included fluctuations in the radiation output from the sun, and changes in circulation and overturning in the oceans. These temperature variations through the Holocene (the last 10,000 years) have been small compared to those during ice ages. In fact the Holocene has probably been the longest “warm stable” period over the past 400,000 years.
Over periods of a few years, fluctuations in global surface temperatures of a few tenths of a degree are common. Some of these are related to the El Niño–Southern Oscillation phenomenon, and major volcanic eruptions have also had some effects."

https://niwa.co.nz/our-science/climate/information-and-resources/clivar/variatio...

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:30pm:

That things happen is because something MADE them happen. Basic science.

So natural variation is somehow excluded? Grin

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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #17 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:48pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:45pm:

Then don’t act like an idiot, jeez!

If things just happened my table will turn into a giraffe. . .well, surprise surprise—it is still a table.

If I started burning something under this table—the table will turn into a heap of ashes.

A bowl sitting on the table—will stay sitting on that table unless and until the table is bumped and/or overturned.

If I throw a stone up in the air—it will return to the surface at some time.

If you are MORONIC enough to doubt that things do not happen without a forcing then you are more stupid, less educated than I think now.

Don’t want to be denigrated, don’t act STUPID!

OK, ban me, I can post real Environmental topics in my MRB, peanut!

Monk,
Get off the grog - you're having another episode.

You're nothing but a quarrelsome old drunk carrying on- like this is a public bar.

It's a forum for proper debate.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #18 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:51pm

lee wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:45pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:10pm:

No, things don’t just happen, there have to be forcings.

So what were the "forcings" in previous ice ages? Roll Eyes

Milankovitch Cycle!

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:10pm:

We know the Milankovitch Cycle is cooling the area north of 65°N. That area is the fastest warming area on the globe!

But that ignores other factors. Why do you need to ignore other factors? Why do you think Milankovitch is the sole detwerminant?

Lack of sunlight sort of leads to cooling, lees

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:10pm:

Natural variation explains nothing.

And yet it does explain a lot.

"The Earth’s climate has exhibited marked "natural" changes, with time scales varying from many millions of years down to a few years. For example:

Changes in land and ocean floor topography have had major influences on global climate at time scales of 50 million to 150 million years. (These changes influenced the patterns of absorption of incoming radiation from the sun, and affected circulation patterns in the atmosphere and oceans).
Over the last two million years the onset and recession of the great Ice Ages were probably influenced by changes in the earth’s orbit and the tilt of its axis, which caused systematic variations in the amount and distribution of solar radiation. The difference in globally averaged temperatures between glacials (“ice ages”) and interglacials is about 5°C.
Since the end of the last ice age (14,000–10,000 years ago) globally averaged surface temperatures have fluctuated over a range of up to 2°C on time scales of centuries or more. Factors influencing these changes probably included fluctuations in the radiation output from the sun, and changes in circulation and overturning in the oceans. These temperature variations through the Holocene (the last 10,000 years) have been small compared to those during ice ages. In fact the Holocene has probably been the longest “warm stable” period over the past 400,000 years.
Over periods of a few years, fluctuations in global surface temperatures of a few tenths of a degree are common. Some of these are related to the El Niño–Southern Oscillation phenomenon, and major volcanic eruptions have also had some effects."

https://niwa.co.nz/our-science/climate/information-and-resources/clivar/variatio...

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:30pm:

That things happen is because something MADE them happen. Basic science.

So natural variation is somehow excluded? Grin

So you illustrated some changes and their forcings. Does not prove your idiotic thesis.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #19 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:54pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:48pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:45pm:

Then don’t act like an idiot, jeez!

If things just happened my table will turn into a giraffe. . .well, surprise surprise—it is still a table.

If I started burning something under this table—the table will turn into a heap of ashes.

A bowl sitting on the table—will stay sitting on that table unless and until the table is bumped and/or overturned.

If I throw a stone up in the air—it will return to the surface at some time.

If you are MORONIC enough to doubt that things do not happen without a forcing then you are more stupid, less educated than I think now.

Don’t want to be denigrated, don’t act STUPID!

OK, ban me, I can post real Environmental topics in my MRB, peanut!

Monk,
Get off the grog - you're having another episode.

You're nothing but a quarrelsome old drunk carrying on- like this is a public bar.

It's a forum for proper debate.

No, this is not a forum for debate at all.

A denier is your only regular contributor, you have no education and so are WAY out of your depth here.

Why not run for Mod of Extremism when that election comes around? No qualifications needed! No thinking either.

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Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121939 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #20 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:56pm Monk - show some respect for other people.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #21 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:57pm Respect is earned. You have earned none. lees has earned none. Just don’t act like a complete numpty all the time!
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #22 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 8:01pm Does a tree just fall down? Nope! A tree might fall down because: Disease has rotted the trunk. Someone has cut most of the way through the trunk. A much stronger than normal wind blew the tree over. Otherwise it would still be there, no?
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Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121939 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #23 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 8:03pm Monk, log off and go to bed - sleep it off and tomorrow you'll feel better.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #24 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 8:04pm But you will still be stupid and uneducated. Run for EE Mod!
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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #25 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 8:07pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 8:01pm:

Does a tree just fall down?

Nope!

A tree might fall down because:

Disease has rotted the trunk.

Someone has cut most of the way through the trunk.

A much stronger than normal wind blew the tree over.

Otherwise it would still be there, no?

or bedwetter pissed on it Cheesy

LOL

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #26 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 8:11pm Face it, Booby the HS dropout—I am the only person with any knowledge and ability to post in this dump, the STUPIDEST MRB in OzPol! Aussie—added 55k posts Gordon—added 25K posts Booby—added barely 10K posts. Jovial Monk—added over 11K posts in HALF the time this dead board added 10K.
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lee

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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #27 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 8:18pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:51pm:

Milankovitch Cycle!

Only the Milankovitch Cycle. So Milankovitch new all. and nothing new. Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:51pm:

Lack of sunlight sort of leads to cooling, lees

Yes it does. Strange how the other day you were arguing different. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 7:51pm:

So you illustrated some changes and their forcings. Does not prove your idiotic thesis.

It certainly argues against yours in that it is ALL Milankovitch cycles. Roll Eyes

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #28 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 8:19pm When it comes to melting ice, here is a nice figure to know: The energy needed to melt 1g of ice will heat the 1g of water at 0°C to 80°C.
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Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121939 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #29 - Nov 24^th, 2023 at 8:22pm Locked for the night so Monk can sleep it off.
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Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121939 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #30 - Nov 25^th, 2023 at 5:52am Bobby. wrote on Nov 24^th, 2023 at 8:22pm: Locked for the night so Monk can sleep it off. Unlocked - behave yourself.
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Jovial Monk

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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #31 - Nov 25^th, 2023 at 6:08am

Why?

This is a ridiculous board.

It put on less than half the number of posts of another comparably sized board, a fifth of what Relationshits put on.

It never discusses the environment.

Booby has no education and so has no knowledge and no ability to think clearly. Hence he falls victim to whatever conman or catfisher is around: DuByne, Blight, Larry.

For the good of OzPol resign as Mod here. You are making a mess of this board. Hell, Environment should be on 200,000 posts with lots of links to high quality publications, it sits on 65K posts. Pathetic.

Of course, Booby won’t resign. Being Mod of this dead board gives him status—in his befuddled mind anyway.

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Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121939 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #32 - Nov 25^th, 2023 at 6:16am Monk - you were given warnings on: Reply #12 Reply #14 Reply #17 Reply #20 Reply #23 Reply #29 Reply #30 That is 7 warnings on this thread and still you break the rules. I even locked the thread for one night so you could sleep it off. This time you have denigrated me again. Tell me why you shouldn't be banned?
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #33 - Nov 25^th, 2023 at 6:29am I don’t give a stuff if you ban me you dweeb. But YOU should resign. If you Mod Environment yet about the only posts you make are to post banal, boring, pointless videos of animals which are OFF TOPIC here then clearly you are not the Mod for Environment, right? Resign, run for EE Mod—I will vote for you!
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal Reply #34 - Nov 25^th, 2023 at 6:31am Because of the near–total nonsense posted in this and the Coronavirus boards several intelligent members have left! The voting in Tavern showed how the membership has declined.
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Bobby.

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Re: Canada Melting Ice reveal
Reply #35 - Nov 25^th, 2023 at 6:33am

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 25^th, 2023 at 6:29am:

I don’t give a stuff if you ban me you dweeb. But YOU should resign.

If you Mod Environment yet about the only posts you make are to post banal, boring, pointless videos of animals which are OFF TOPIC here then clearly you are not the Mod for Environment, right?

Resign, run for EE Mod—I will vote for you!

OK Monk,
you're banned for 4 weeks.

Cease posting.

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