Australian Politics Forum - Defence topics now here.

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 57971 Gender:	Re: Defence topics. Reply #45 - Feb 16^th, 2024 at 3:27pm Brian just wanted Vietnam poo-tang.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Defence topics. Reply #46 - Feb 26^th, 2024 at 8:23pm Booby, WHEN will you actually discuss, you know, the environment? Or are you so stupid and uneducated that you don’t know what the environment is?
Back to top	OzPolitic needs a >real< Environment MRB now! OzPolitic needs a >real< Food MRB now! OzPolitic needs a >real< Health MRB now! OzPolitic needs a >real< Economics MRB now! Topics in the right MRB! IP Logged

Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121982 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Defence topics. Reply #47 - Feb 26^th, 2024 at 8:26pm Reported again thread locked
Back to top	IP Logged

Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121982 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Defence topics. Reply #48 - Mar 1^st, 2024 at 7:58am These are the idiots running our Defence - they would rather bulldoze our helicopters into the ground than give them to Ukraine - go figure? Why can't we give Ukraine our Taipan helicopter fleet?
Back to top	IP Logged

Belgarion

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6169
Gender: male

Re: Defence topics.
Reply #49 - Mar 1^st, 2024 at 9:06am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 1^st, 2024 at 7:58am:

These are the idiots running our Defence -
they would rather bulldoze our helicopters into the ground
than give them to Ukraine - go figure?

Why can't we give Ukraine our Taipan helicopter fleet?

There are serious issues with the Taipans that have caused them to be withdrawn from service. We could give them to the Ukrainians however thy may be more a liability than an asset, and imagine the bad press should they crash and kill Ukrainian troops.

Back to top

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

IP Logged

Jasin

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 57971
Gender: male

Re: Defence topics.
Reply #50 - Mar 1^st, 2024 at 9:11am

Good clip. But they could have saved themselves a lot of time by just saying "We in the ADF are subordinate to you Politicians and thus not operating at 100% of our full capacity and thus must kowtow to legalities in fear of lawsuits and thus do not want to be held 'liable' to Aircraft that have never really reached their full 100% capability and have often justified their lack of effectiveness in proving to the Australian Taxpayers that its been money well spent."

Ukraine won't get the Taipans. They were doomed to crash and be buried right from the first date of purchase.

Back to top

AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 121982
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Defence topics.
Reply #51 - Mar 1^st, 2024 at 9:17am

Belgarion wrote on Mar 1^st, 2024 at 9:06am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 1^st, 2024 at 7:58am:

These are the idiots running our Defence -
they would rather bulldoze our helicopters into the ground
than give them to Ukraine - go figure?

Why can't we give Ukraine our Taipan helicopter fleet?

There are serious issues with the Taipans that have caused them to be withdrawn from service. We could give them to the Ukrainians however thy may be more a liability than an asset, and imagine the bad press should they crash and kill Ukrainian troops.

Jasin wrote on Mar 1^st, 2024 at 9:11am:

Good clip. But they could have saved themselves a lot of time by just saying "We in the ADF are subordinate to you Politicians and thus not operating at 100% of our full capacity and thus must kowtow to legalities in fear of lawsuits and thus do not want to be held 'liable' to Aircraft that have never really reached their full 100% capability and have often justified their lack of effectiveness in proving to the Australian Taxpayers that its been money well spent."

Ukraine won't get the Taipans. They were doomed to crash and be buried right from the first date of purchase.

They could have got a disclaimer signed by Ukraine
that Australia would not be liable for any problems with the choppers. Roll Eyes

Back to top

IP Logged

Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6169 Gender:	Re: Defence topics. Reply #52 - Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 9:58am Bobby. wrote on Mar 1^st, 2024 at 9:17am: They could have got a disclaimer signed by Ukraine that Australia would not be liable for any problems with the choppers. The ADF could not, in all good conscience, hand over equipment that was likely to get Ukrainian personnel killed, and the government would hate the bad publicity.
Back to top	"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire.....(possibly) IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 121982
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Defence topics.
Reply #53 - Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 10:35am

Belgarion wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 9:58am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 1^st, 2024 at 9:17am:

They could have got a disclaimer signed by Ukraine
that Australia would not be liable for any problems with the choppers. Roll Eyes

The ADF could not, in all good conscience, hand over equipment that was likely to get Ukrainian personnel killed, and the government would hate the bad publicity.

Ohh nonsense,
how many Ukrainians died driving Bushmasters?
They don't tell us - they want more of them.

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/australia-to-send-bushmaster-armoured-vehicles...

Back to top

IP Logged

Belgarion

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6169
Gender: male

Re: Defence topics.
Reply #54 - Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 11:48am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 10:35am:

Belgarion wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 9:58am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 1^st, 2024 at 9:17am:

They could have got a disclaimer signed by Ukraine
that Australia would not be liable for any problems with the choppers. Roll Eyes

The ADF could not, in all good conscience, hand over equipment that was likely to get Ukrainian personnel killed, and the government would hate the bad publicity.

Ohh nonsense,
how many Ukrainians died driving Bushmasters?
They don't tell us - they want more of them.

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/bushmaster010422.jp...

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/australia-to-send-bushmaster-armoured-vehicles...

The Bushmaster is a reliable bit of kit. The Taipan has proved to have ongoing reliability issues that have culminated in fatal crashes, leading them to be withdrawn from service. It would be criminally irresponsible to provide these helicopters to anyone, let alone someone who will use them in combat, when they are as much a danger to their crews and passengers as enemy action. Roll Eyes

Back to top

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 121982
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Defence topics.
Reply #55 - Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 11:58am

Belgarion wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 11:48am:

The Bushmaster is a reliable bit of kit. The Taipan has proved to have ongoing reliability issues that have culminated in fatal crashes, leading them to be withdrawn from service. It would be criminally irresponsible to provide these helicopters to anyone, let alone someone who will use them in combat, when they are as much a danger to their crews and passengers as enemy action. Roll Eyes

Let's agree to disagree on that.

The Ukrainians could take them at their own risk -
it's none of our business -
in fact those choppers could save 100s of lives used as medi-vac tools.

Back to top

IP Logged

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 57971 Gender:	Re: Defence topics. Reply #56 - Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 12:01pm Maybe the Taipans are really really shyte and Australian Government doesn't want the Ukrainians to use them in action because the Australian Taxpayers will see how the Australian Government wasted more millions on CRAP in the first place.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 121982
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Defence topics.
Reply #57 - Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 5:48pm

Jasin wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 12:01pm:

Maybe the Taipans are really really shyte
and Australian Government doesn't want the Ukrainians to use them in action because the Australian Taxpayers will see how the Australian Government wasted more millions on CRAP in the first place.

Yes - remember the Seasprite helicopter debacle?
https://www.afr.com/companies/manufacturing/hard-lessons-in-seasprite-debacle-20...

There is not doubt that the DoD flushes 10s of $billions
of taxpayers money down the dunny as a regular event.

Back to top

IP Logged

Jasin

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 57971
Gender: male

Re: Defence topics.
Reply #58 - Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 5:58pm

Ah yes. Well then I reckon it is about the first mistake of buying such crap in the first place and wasting everyone else's money.
Look at those Abrams Tanks. Hyped up by American propaganda and the Russians are picking them off easy-peasy in Ukraine.
At least Australia knows its Taipans are crap and don't want to embarrass themselves further by putting them to the test with real action.

Still. It is totally unfair of Australia to not at least give Ukraine a 'fair go' of it. Very un-Australian to be honest.
A real 'lack of faith' in the Ukrainians. Roll Eyes

Back to top

AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 121982
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Defence topics.
Reply #59 - Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 6:18pm

Jasin wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2024 at 5:58pm:

Ah yes. Well then I reckon it is about the first mistake of buying such crap in the first place and wasting everyone else's money.
Look at those Abrams Tanks. Hyped up by American propaganda and the Russians are picking them off easy-peasy in Ukraine.
At least Australia knows its Taipans are crap and don't want to embarrass themselves further by putting them to the test with real action.

Still. It is totally unfair of Australia to not at least give Ukraine a 'fair go' of it. Very un-Australian to be honest.
A real 'lack of faith' in the Ukrainians. Roll Eyes

It might have something to do with the skilled staff required
to maintain the helicopters.
They spend most of their life in the workshop
and perhaps Ukraine doesn't have a single qualified Taipan technician or engineer?

Back to top

IP Logged