Australian Politics Forum - Defence topics now here.

UnSubRocky

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Re: Defence topics now here.
Reply #150 - Oct 13^th, 2024 at 7:31am

Bobby. wrote on Sep 19^th, 2024 at 10:42pm:

What kind of sex maniac halfwits are we employing in the Australian Defence Force? -

they can't keep their cocks inside their trousers -

they should shoot them by firing squad after a court martial.

You don't know what you are talking about. I was in the army reserves... for a short period of time. Had it not been for an incident in June of 2001, I probably would have been in East Timor by August.

The court martials don't determine who gets executed. Court martials only legitimise them.

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At this stage...

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thegreatdivide

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Re: AUKUS Nuke subs.
Reply #151 - Oct 13^th, 2024 at 1:01pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 8:45pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 8:21pm:

The war will be over by that time. Let alone 'those' subs will be redundant. Roll Eyes

Yep - that's why I say - it's Pollys pissing our tax money against the wall.

The GG needs to sack them all and appoint an administrator who can manage money.

Downer was mentioned: and then there's Keating....we wouldn't be paying $half a trillion to acquire nuclear subs (to operate thousands of kms from Oz) if Oz and the West stayed out of the ideological dispute between Taiwan and the mainland; the UN says there's only One China (and China wants ASEAN on board so will eventually negotiate with the Philippines over some rocks in the SCS).

But bobby you need to worry about the waste and mismanagement of Oz resources, not 'taxpayer money' - which can be created out of thin air (if flat-earth neoclassical economists get out of the way).

Just sayin'.

Thanks for the topic.

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lee

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Re: Defence topics now here.
Reply #152 - Oct 13^th, 2024 at 1:18pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2024 at 1:01pm:

we wouldn't be paying $half a trillion to acquire nuclear subs (to operate thousands of kms from Oz) if Oz and the West stayed out of the ideological dispute between Taiwan and the mainland; the UN says there's only One China (and China wants ASEAN on board so will eventually negotiate with the Philippines over some rocks in the SCS).

So we shouldn't protect our tading sea lanes? Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Defence topics now here.
Reply #153 - Oct 13^th, 2024 at 1:20pm

Frank wrote on Sep 18^th, 2024 at 9:36am:

Dean makes the risible claim that I and my colleagues are “claiming an elaborate conspiracy theory” in “asking people to ignore the statements of their own government about us having control of these (submarine) capabilities”. Of course our government will insist that it retains control as to how these assets are used, as will always be the case on paper. But the reality, should serious tensions erupt, will be very different.

It defies credibility to think that Washington will ever go ahead with its sale of Virginias to us in the absence of an understanding that they will join the US in any fight in which it chooses to engage anywhere in our region, particularly over Taiwan. Are we all just meant to ignore Kurt Campbell’s indiscreet observation at the time of the AUKUS announcement that “we have them locked in now for the next 40 years”? I have had personal ministerial experience of being a junior allied partner of the US in a hot conflict situation – the first Gulf War in 1991 – and my recollections are not pretty.

Even more troubling is the uncritical acceptance by Beazley, Dibb and Pezzullo of the loss of sovereign agency, which they acknowledge, with varying degrees of frankness, is necessarily involved in our embrace of the AUKUS submarine project. Pezzullo goes so far as to cheer what he describes as “a ‘pooling of sovereignty’ in the face of a belligerent China”.

All this is not just depressing but sickening for all those Australians who have long nurtured the belief that we are a fiercely independent nation, ever more conscious of the need to engage constructively, creatively and sensitively with our own Indo-Pacific neighbourhood. And a country that had put behind us the “fear of abandonment”, which had been so central to our defence and diplomacy for so much of the last century: recognising, as Paul Keating continues to put it so articulately, that we need to find our security in Asia, not from Asia.

For all practical purposes, our AUKUS commitment may well now be irreversible. But so too is likely to be the judgment that this will prove one of the worst defence and foreign policy decisions Australia has ever made.

Gareth Evans was Australia’s foreign minister from 1988-96. He is a distinguished honorary professor at the ANU.

Excellent articles.

Thanks.

(a message from your designated 'parrot' .....)

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Bobby.

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Re: AUKUS Nuke subs.
Reply #154 - Oct 13^th, 2024 at 7:17pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2024 at 1:01pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 8:45pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 8:21pm:

The war will be over by that time. Let alone 'those' subs will be redundant. Roll Eyes

Yep - that's why I say - it's Pollys pissing our tax money against the wall.

The GG needs to sack them all and appoint an administrator who can manage money.

Downer was mentioned: and then there's Keating....we wouldn't be paying $half a trillion to acquire nuclear subs (to operate thousands of kms from Oz) if Oz and the West stayed out of the ideological dispute between Taiwan and the mainland; the UN says there's only One China (and China wants ASEAN on board so will eventually negotiate with the Philippines over some rocks in the SCS).

But bobby you need to worry about the waste and mismanagement of Oz resources, not 'taxpayer money' - which can be created out of thin air (if flat-earth neoclassical economists get out of the way).

Just sayin'.

Thanks for the topic.

But the fact remains -

Pollys are pissing our tax money against the wall

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thegreatdivide

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Re: AUKUS Nuke subs.
Reply #155 - Oct 16^th, 2024 at 1:38pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 13^th, 2024 at 7:17pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2024 at 1:01pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 8:45pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 1^st, 2023 at 8:21pm:

The war will be over by that time. Let alone 'those' subs will be redundant. Roll Eyes

Yep - that's why I say - it's Pollys pissing our tax money against the wall.

The GG needs to sack them all and appoint an administrator who can manage money.

Downer was mentioned: and then there's Keating....we wouldn't be paying $half a trillion to acquire nuclear subs (to operate thousands of kms from Oz) if Oz and the West stayed out of the ideological dispute between Taiwan and the mainland; the UN says there's only One China (and China wants ASEAN on board so will eventually negotiate with the Philippines over some rocks in the SCS).

But bobby you need to worry about the waste and mismanagement of Oz resources, not 'taxpayer money' - which can be created out of thin air (if flat-earth neoclassical economists get out of the way).

Just sayin'.

Thanks for the topic.

But the fact remains -

Pollys are pissing our tax money against the wall

That's what they are doing - BECAUSE they are not taking responsibility** for productively managing the nation's RESOURCES, which is what they should be doing.

Then you could stop worrying about the government mis-spending YOUR money.

**And they are not taking responsibilty BECAUSE neoclassical orthodoxy insanely insists the currency-issuing government must tax and borrow money from the private sector.

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Bobby.

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Re: AUKUS Nuke subs.
Reply #156 - Oct 16^th, 2024 at 1:48pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 16^th, 2024 at 1:38pm:

That's what they are doing - BECAUSE they are not taking responsibility** for productively managing the nation's RESOURCES, which is what they should be doing.

Then you could stop worrying about the government mis-spending YOUR money.

**And they are not taking responsibilty BECAUSE neoclassical orthodoxy insanely insists the currency-issuing government must tax and borrow money from the private sector.

It has bipartisan support -

both sides of politics agree -

we should be paying 9 times the correct price for 8 submarines.

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Bobby.

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Re: Defence topics now here.
Reply #157 - Oct 17^th, 2024 at 8:03am

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-16/ukraine-to-receive-aging-australian-abram...

Ukraine to receive 49 aging Abrams tanks in latest Australian military aid package

By defence correspondent Andrew Greene

Topic:Foreign Aid

10h ago

Dozens of soon-to-be-retired Australian Abrams tanks will be sent to Ukraine under a $245 million military support package to bolster the war-torn country's fight against Russia's invasion.

More than a year after Kyiv first expressed interest in the aging M1A1 fleet, and months after Australia rejected a request to donate its grounded Taipan helicopters,

the Albanese government has confirmed it will now gift 49 of the American-made tanks.

Defence Industry Minister Pat Conroy, who is attending a NATO defence ministers meeting in Brussels this week, will brief his Ukrainian counterpart directly about the latest support package.

"We stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Ukraine in their fight against Russia's illegal invasion," Mr Conroy said while in London, where he's meeting members of the UK government before travelling to NATO.

"These tanks will deliver more firepower and mobility to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and complement the support provided by our partners for Ukraine's armoured brigades — Australia has been steadfast in our support for Ukraine."

"As we face a challenging geo-strategic environment, it is important that we continue to work together with our partners around the world to deter aggression and coercion, and protect the global rules-based order."
Zelenskyy unveils victory plan as Russian forces make headway
Photo shows A local resident and a rescuer stand on debris of a building.A local resident and a rescuer stand on debris of a building.

The Ukrainian president tells politicians his plan contains five main points that rely on Kyiv's allies, including an unconditional invitation to join NATO and specific weapons support.

Mr Conroy told reporters it was "time to move on" from the controversy over the Australian Army's decision to strip and bury its Taipan helicopters instead of agreeing to a formal request from Ukraine for the grounded aircraft.

In recent weeks, Australia has received the first of its 75 newer M1A2 tanks, which will eventually replace the army's fleet of 59 older M1A1 vehicles that have never been used in combat.

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Bobby.

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Re: Defence topics now here.
Reply #158 - Oct 17^th, 2024 at 12:02pm

A pity if we ever get into a war -
we'll be like Ukraine - trying to use old equipment.
Old M1A1 tanks are better than nothing.
Maybe we should have kept them in storage?

I saw a news piece the other day -
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62gx6rvv5wo

The Ukrainians are using old Russian WWII Maxim M1910 machine guns from 1939.

85 years old equipment!

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Bobby.

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Re: Defence topics now here.
Reply #159 - Oct 17^th, 2024 at 12:10pm

The Ukrainians are using Maxim machine guns that are 85 years old.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62gx6rvv5wo

The machine-guns are from another era:
two Maxims made in 1939, ammunition boxes stamped with red stars from Soviet days.

Serhiy, the only man on the team, has to pour in bottled water by hand as a coolant.

This is all that’s available: Ukraine’s best kit is at the frontline, and it is constantly asking its allies for more.

But the ancient weapons are impeccably maintained and the Witches say they’ve downed three drones since the summer.

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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 16619 In your happy place Gender:	Re: Defence topics now here. Reply #160 - Oct 17^th, 2024 at 12:15pm Have they used up Australia's contribution of Boomerangs and spears?
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Bobby.

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Re: Defence topics now here.
Reply #161 - Oct 17^th, 2024 at 12:20pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Oct 17^th, 2024 at 12:15pm:

Have they used up Australia's contribution of Boomerangs and spears?

It seems when you get desperate in war you use anything you can get your hands on.

I heard Ukraine took vintage WW2 tanks out of museums to use and put them straight on the front line
up against modern Russian tanks.
I'd hate to be the poor bastard driving that into battle. WTF?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: AUKUS Nuke subs.
Reply #162 - Oct 18^th, 2024 at 12:18pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 16^th, 2024 at 1:48pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 16^th, 2024 at 1:38pm:

That's what they are doing - BECAUSE they are not taking responsibility** for productively managing the nation's RESOURCES, which is what they should be doing.

Then you could stop worrying about the government mis-spending YOUR money.

**And they are not taking responsibilty BECAUSE neoclassical orthodoxy insanely insists the currency-issuing government must tax and borrow money from the private sector.

It has bipartisan support -

both sides of politics agree -

we should be paying 9 times the correct price for 8 submarines.

OK, so how do you stop bipartisan waste of taxpayer money?

I'm working to educate the public re 'taxpayer money', and better management of resources.

You?

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21507 Gender:	Re: Defence topics now here. Reply #163 - Oct 18^th, 2024 at 12:37pm thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 18^th, 2024 at 12:18pm: I'm working to educate the public re 'taxpayer money', and better management of resources. With NO background in economics. Love it.
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Bobby.

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Re: AUKUS Nuke subs.
Reply #164 - Oct 18^th, 2024 at 2:47pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 18^th, 2024 at 12:18pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 16^th, 2024 at 1:48pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 16^th, 2024 at 1:38pm:

That's what they are doing - BECAUSE they are not taking responsibility** for productively managing the nation's RESOURCES, which is what they should be doing.

Then you could stop worrying about the government mis-spending YOUR money.

**And they are not taking responsibilty BECAUSE neoclassical orthodoxy insanely insists the currency-issuing government must tax and borrow money from the private sector.

It has bipartisan support -

both sides of politics agree -

we should be paying 9 times the correct price for 8 submarines.

OK, so how do you stop bipartisan waste of taxpayer money?

I'm working to educate the public re 'taxpayer money', and better management of resources.

You?

The Governor General should step in and sack the lot of them
and appoint administrators who know about money.

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