Australian Politics Forum - Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?

MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #150 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 10:31am

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 10:25am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 10:08am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 10:02am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 10:00am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:54am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:51am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:37am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:27am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:20am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:11am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:58am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:45am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:28am:

There's evidence that the Biblical Jesus is a fiction.

The first example would be his 'virgin' birth. Paul, a prolific writer who knew Jesus' contemporaries and his brother, makes no mention of Jesus' virgin birth because that myth did not exist during Paul's lifetime.

Re Paul

Paul consistently omits Joseph when describing the genealogy of Jesus.

In addition, Paul later refers to Jesus as the “son of God” in the same passage from the letter to the Romans.

Paul often used this expression to describe Jesus, and Paul was consistent and clear about Jesus’ divinity throughout his letters.

If Paul believed that Jesus was born of a human mother and father, we would expect Paul to describe how a normal man, born of human parents, could be God Himself. Paul never does that, and this is consistent with the fact that Paul was aware of the virgin conception.

Look I honestly think you should just stick with Spinoza 😐

Joseph is also not mentioned in Mark's gospel....

So? Luke’s gospel does. At chapter 3. You know about Luke don’t you? The Greek doctor dude?

Seriously....just stick with Spinoza.

Decades after Jesus' death. There is no mention of Joseph prior to that time.

Joseph is mentioned in THREE GOSPELS. In LUKE we even get the CONTEXT behind who Joseph was.

Why are we even discussing this?

Joseph is mentioned in 2 gospels - Matthew and Luke; both written decades after Jesus' death.

He’s mentioned in 3 gospels.

Oh and as regards WHEN the 4 Gospels were written - it’s common knowledge that the dates proffered are pure speculation and scholars throughout the ages continue to disagree so that’s a nothing burger which we can safely pack away.

Again ... stick with Spinoza.

Oh and Joseph is specifically mentioned in Matthew, Luke and John.

I’m sure you’re quite capable in googling the relevant chapters/verses. I’m not here to play go fetch.

I’d really like to move on to Spinoza. I’m finding this particular discussion with you quite boring to be brutally honest. You do realise I have an agnostic/atheist husband ... yes? Well he has given me plenty of practice in debating all sorts of things relating to God and the Holy Bible. Free tip: Keep that in mind.

So, you can't quote the gospel of John, then.

Of course you can't - there's no mention of Joseph in the gospel of John.

It has nothing to do with the word “CAN’T

I simply WON’T be providing you with links you yourself can easily google. I’m not here to play go fetch for you! Do it yourself.

Now when can we move on to Spinoza?

Let me know when you’re ready. I have a few things to say about Spinoza actually.

I’ll check back later to see if you’ve toughened up a bit for THAT discussion.

Cheers

You'll need to refer to Frank on this one. He mentioned his being a Spinozist one of his posts.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #151 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 10:33am Frank/Meister ... whoever/whatever.
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Bias_2012 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10766 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #152 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 11:51am Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 haven't bumped into God yet, and they have traveled 13 billion miles so far. They haven't caught site of Allah either, as far as I know
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issuevoter

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #153 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 12:15pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 8:14pm:

issuevoter wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 7:46pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 7:36am:

issuevoter wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 7:21am:

Can't remember where in the Bible he is quoted, but Christ believed in Noah's ark. Grin

So it does not matter whether you are Christian or Christian atheist, you still believe in dunderhead.

Dear God .... not another clueless clown 😩😔🥺

Clueless. Mmm. . . So you are denying the Bible quotes Jesus on Noah's ark.

Not at all. It’s the fact that you don’t know much about it.

Anyway ... here is the relevant passage 👇

Matthew 24:37–39

So tell us, as you know all about.

Anyone who believes in Noah's Ark is a dunderhead, including Jesus. He might have been a decent bloke, but he was capable of believing this silly tale. That's not the son of God.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53070 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #154 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 12:57pm Sorry for not participating in this Topic as much. But it just feels like I would be talking about Trans people. Somewhere out there folks - there is an Atheist like Julia Gillard who identifies as a Christian if the price is right.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Online Dogs not cats! Posts: 49734 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #155 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 1:24pm Noah’s Ark is just the Epic of Gilgamesh rebadged.
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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 15705 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #156 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 1:27pm Flood myths are common around the world. Even Plato wrote of one - the fate of Atlantis.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Online Dogs not cats! Posts: 49734 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #157 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 2:07pm And some still keep looking for Atlantis or the Ark. Brainwashed idiots!
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AusGeoff

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #158 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 11:38pm

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 10:12pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 8:16pm:

...All the more reason why you should be a follower of JESUS (esp when you consider where Spinoza is now and compare that to where Jesus is now).

Well, even assuming for a moment that the man
allegedly known as "Jesus" actually existed—both are
dead and buried. And never to be resurrected LOL.

So... did Jesus exist?

An answer is suggested here.

And a response is required also.

1. Does the author of that article really exist? If so then how come hardly anyone knows about him? Yet everyone knows about Jesus. And Jesus never even had the internet.

   Yes, of course Frank Zindler does exist.
   What an absurd question. In fact he's written
   17 books, versus zero for the man allegedly
   named "Jesus".

2. If you look at that article closely it’s really just a scrambled eggs version of why the author (if he even exists) has convinced himself of why he BELIEVES that Jesus never existed. That’s all it is.

   I'm afraid this comment defies all logic. Christians
   of course also merely BELIEVE that Jesus existed.
   They have no empirical evidence supporting this belief.

3. The author (assuming he even exists) cherry picked his references (biblical/non biblical) so as to fit his personal belief induced conclusion.

   In exactly the same way that theists do? Yes? No?

This is a photograph of author Frank Zindler...



      Can you please post a photograph of Jesus? Thanks.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #159 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 6:59am

This was my response. In its entirety. Context is everything.

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 7:51am:

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 10:12pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 8:16pm:

...All the more reason why you should be a follower of JESUS (esp when you consider where Spinoza is now and compare that to where Jesus is now).

Well, even assuming for a moment that the man
allegedly known as "Jesus" actually existed—both are
dead and buried. And never to be resurrected LOL.

So... did Jesus exist?

An answer is suggested here.

Cool

And a response is required also.

1. Does the author of that article really exist? If so then how come hardly anyone knows about him? Yet everyone knows about Jesus. And Jesus never even had the internet.

2. If you look at that article closely it’s really just a scrambled eggs version of why the author (if he even exists) has convinced himself of why he BELIEVES that Jesus never existed. That’s all it is.

3. This is linked to the scrambled eggs in 2. The author (assuming he even exists) cherry picked his references (biblical/non biblical) so as to fit his personal belief induced conclusion. He’s worked backwards and that there is the hallmark sign of what I regard as a bona fide tosspot attempting to be taken seriously by those who know the entire Bible very well AND in context. And he’s failed miserably. Having said that it may well be that the target group he’s pitching at are those who aren’t very familiar with the Holy Bible. Such people will definitely fall prey to the nonsense he’s produced. Then again only the silly and gullible would take the claims made in this article seriously without conducting their own independent investigations.

Cheers

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Frank

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #160 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 7:41am

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 11:38pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 10:12pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 8:16pm:

...All the more reason why you should be a follower of JESUS (esp when you consider where Spinoza is now and compare that to where Jesus is now).

Well, even assuming for a moment that the man
allegedly known as "Jesus" actually existed—both are
dead and buried. And never to be resurrected LOL.

So... did Jesus exist?

An answer is suggested here.

And a response is required also.

1. Does the author of that article really exist? If so then how come hardly anyone knows about him? Yet everyone knows about Jesus. And Jesus never even had the internet.

   Yes, of course Frank Zindler does exist.
   What an absurd question. In fact he's written
   17 books, versus zero for the man allegedly
   named "Jesus".

2. If you look at that article closely it’s really just a scrambled eggs version of why the author (if he even exists) has convinced himself of why he BELIEVES that Jesus never existed. That’s all it is.

   I'm afraid this comment defies all logic. Christians
   of course also merely BELIEVE that Jesus existed.
   They have no empirical evidence supporting this belief.

3. The author (assuming he even exists) cherry picked his references (biblical/non biblical) so as to fit his personal belief induced conclusion.

   In exactly the same way that theists do? Yes? No?

This is a photograph of author Frank Zindler...

   https://i.postimg.cc/Bv2KpSx1/Screenshot-2023-10-12-at-00-34-52-7caee9-422f854b7...

      Can you please post a photograph of Jesus? Thanks.

This is a very silly argument.

Did the Buddha exist?

Do the ideas of Love, Hope, Charity exist empirically? Do the ideas of the Ten Commandment exist even if there is zero empirical evidence of the tablets they were supposed to have been written on? Did Plato wrote down what Socrates and his companions actually said? What's the empirical evidence for the Socratic Dialogues' authenticity? Is all poetry and literature, myths, parablex just lies since they are all made up?

This insistence of empirical evidence for things that are obviously NOT of a physical natur es is very jejune. You can just hear the 12 year old's mentality behind it.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #161 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 7:50am

According to AusGeoff’s “logic”

In 200 years (or less) when no photo can be found of AusGeoff then that’s THE proof that AusGeoff never existed. And those who believe that he did exist are idiots.

Oh and even if A photo was produced once again we wouldn’t know if it was AusGeoff anyway. We would need more proof to prove that the photo was of AusGeoff. We’re in vicious cycles of proving the authenticity of proofs territory now.

Okkkkay. Next!

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #162 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 8:00am 1st Yr Philosophy and the associated discussions our lectures provoked were fun when I was at Uni (most probably because back then I was a teenager and my frontal lobe - which governs high level logic and reasoning was still developing). These days I find it all pretty bloody boring.
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Jovial Monk

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #163 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 8:28am

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 7:50am:

According to AusGeoff’s “logic”

In 200 years (or less) when no photo can be found of AusGeoff then that’s THE proof that AusGeoff never existed. And those who believe that he did exist are idiots.

Oh and even if A photo was produced once again we wouldn’t know if it was AusGeoff anyway. We would need more proof to prove that the photo was of AusGeoff. We’re in vicious cycles of proving the authenticity of proofs territory now.

Okkkkay. Next!

Birth certificate
Marriage certificate
Death certificate

Can you produce these for Jesus?

Birth certificate? The census that required Joseph (in 2 gospels) to go to Bethlehem never happened so scratch birth certificate.

Marriage certificate—marriage to the Magdelene probably happened not recorded anywhere tho. Couplekids likely.

Death certificate–no record of such a trial by Pontius Pilate so scratch death certificate.

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Frank

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #164 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 9:08am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 8:28am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 7:50am:

According to AusGeoff’s “logic”

In 200 years (or less) when no photo can be found of AusGeoff then that’s THE proof that AusGeoff never existed. And those who believe that he did exist are idiots.

Oh and even if A photo was produced once again we wouldn’t know if it was AusGeoff anyway. We would need more proof to prove that the photo was of AusGeoff. We’re in vicious cycles of proving the authenticity of proofs territory now.

Okkkkay. Next!

Birth certificate
Marriage certificate
Death certificate

Can you produce these for Jesus?

Birth certificate? The census that required Joseph (in 2 gospels) to go to Bethlehem never happened so scratch birth certificate.

Marriage certificate—marriage to the Magdelene probably happened not recorded anywhere tho. Couplekids likely.

Death certificate–no record of such a trial by Pontius Pilate so scratch death certificate.

Venezuelan Dictator Nicolás Maduro on Hamas Terror: ‘Jesus Christ Was an Anti-Imperialist Palestinian’

Happy?

Do you have Julius Caesar's birth certificate, juvenile? Any of your own ancestors from biblical times?

No.

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