Australian Politics Forum - Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?

AusGeoff

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #120 - Oct 10^th, 2023 at 10:15pm

Frank wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 10:07pm:

...A caricature of a caricature.
Silly people arguing with silly people about silly absurdities, missing all the while the gems of wisdom.

What exactly are those "gems of wisdom" you refer to
Frank, in the tale of Noah's Ark?

It's just a fictional collection of absurdities. End of story.

Roll Eyes

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #121 - Oct 10^th, 2023 at 10:30pm

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 10:12pm:

Well, even assuming for a moment that the man
allegedly known as "Jesus" actually existed—both are
dead and buried. And never to be resurrected LOL.

So... did Jesus exist?

An answer is suggested here.

Cool

There's not much reason to doubt that Jesus existed - his mission during his lifetime was a failure - there was no reason to conjure up a fake Jesus.

Also, Paul - a highly literate diaspora Jew who knew all of Jesus' contemporaries - most particularly, James, the brother of Jesus - did not doubt that Jesus had lived and died.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #122 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 5:52am

There may have been a half-mad Jewish preacher with the name Jesus in Hebrew, but he was just a normal person.

No evidence exists the biblical Jesus existed: the so-called census causing Joseph and Mary to have to go to Bethlehem to be counted—no record exists of it. Not a mention anywhere in the Roman accounts of the time.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #123 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 7:51am

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 10:12pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 8:16pm:

...All the more reason why you should be a follower of JESUS (esp when you consider where Spinoza is now and compare that to where Jesus is now).

Well, even assuming for a moment that the man
allegedly known as "Jesus" actually existed—both are
dead and buried. And never to be resurrected LOL.

So... did Jesus exist?

An answer is suggested here.

Cool

And a response is required also.

1. Does the author of that article really exist? If so then how come hardly anyone knows about him? Yet everyone knows about Jesus. And Jesus never even had the internet.

2. If you look at that article closely it’s really just a scrambled eggs version of why the author (if he even exists) has convinced himself of why he BELIEVES that Jesus never existed. That’s all it is.

3. This is linked to the scrambled eggs in 2. The author (assuming he even exists) cherry picked his references (biblical/non biblical) so as to fit his personal belief induced conclusion. He’s worked backwards and that there is the hallmark sign of what I regard as a bona fide tosspot attempting to be taken seriously by those who know the entire Bible very well AND in context. And he’s failed miserably. Having said that it may well be that the target group he’s pitching at are those who aren’t very familiar with the Holy Bible. Such people will definitely fall prey to the nonsense he’s produced. Then again only the silly and gullible would take the claims made in this article seriously without conducting their own independent investigations.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #124 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:28am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 5:52am:

There may have been a half-mad Jewish preacher with the name Jesus in Hebrew, but he was just a normal person.

No evidence exists the biblical Jesus existed: the so-called census causing Joseph and Mary to have to go to Bethlehem to be counted—no record exists of it. Not a mention anywhere in the Roman accounts of the time.

There's evidence that the Biblical Jesus is a fiction.

The first example would be his 'virgin' birth. Paul, a prolific writer who knew Jesus' contemporaries and his brother, makes no mention of Jesus' virgin birth because that myth did not exist during Paul's lifetime.

The earliest gospel - Mark - also makes no mention of the virgin birth.

The story does not appear in Christian texts until near the end of the 1st century.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Online Dogs not cats! Posts: 49694 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #125 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:36am The “virgin birth” supposedly preceded by the “immaculate conception.” That “good christian” psychopath Booby could not say who was immaculately (no original sin) conceived
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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #126 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:45am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:28am:

There's evidence that the Biblical Jesus is a fiction.

The first example would be his 'virgin' birth. Paul, a prolific writer who knew Jesus' contemporaries and his brother, makes no mention of Jesus' virgin birth because that myth did not exist during Paul's lifetime.

Re Paul

Paul consistently omits Joseph when describing the genealogy of Jesus.

In addition, Paul later refers to Jesus as the “son of God” in the same passage from the letter to the Romans.

Paul often used this expression to describe Jesus, and Paul was consistent and clear about Jesus’ divinity throughout his letters.

If Paul believed that Jesus was born of a human mother and father, we would expect Paul to describe how a normal man, born of human parents, could be God Himself. Paul never does that, and this is consistent with the fact that Paul was aware of the virgin conception.

Look I honestly think you should just stick with Spinoza 😐

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #127 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:47am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:36am:

The “virgin birth” supposedly preceded by the “immaculate conception.”

That “good christian” psychopath Booby could not say who was immaculately (no original sin) conceived Grin

According to Catholic dogma, Mary was 'immaculately conceived' - born without original sin.

It's important to remember that, apart from Paul, (and only after nearly 2 decades of bitterly arguing with the Jerusalem Council), Jesus and his contemporaries did not deviate from fundamental Judaism; the idea that any Jew would have even imagined a virgin birth story is ridiculous.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #128 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:49am

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 10:15pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 10^th, 2023 at 10:07pm:

...A caricature of a caricature.
Silly people arguing with silly people about silly absurdities, missing all the while the gems of wisdom.

What exactly are those "gems of wisdom" you refer to
Frank, in the tale of Noah's Ark?

It's just a fictional collection of absurdities. End of story.

Roll Eyes

Has Frank responded? If so I can’t find it.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #129 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:55am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:47am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:36am:

The “virgin birth” supposedly preceded by the “immaculate conception.”

That “good christian” psychopath Booby could not say who was immaculately (no original sin) conceived Grin

According to Catholic dogma, Mary was 'immaculately conceived' - born without original sin.

It's important to remember that, apart from Paul, (and only after nearly 2 decades of bitterly arguing with the Jerusalem Council), Jesus and his contemporaries did not deviate from fundamental Judaism; the idea that any Jew would have even imagined a virgin birth story is ridiculous.

Yup, “Jesus” was a Jew pure and simple. Jesus was not a Christian.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #130 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:58am

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:45am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:28am:

There's evidence that the Biblical Jesus is a fiction.

The first example would be his 'virgin' birth. Paul, a prolific writer who knew Jesus' contemporaries and his brother, makes no mention of Jesus' virgin birth because that myth did not exist during Paul's lifetime.

Re Paul

Paul consistently omits Joseph when describing the genealogy of Jesus.

In addition, Paul later refers to Jesus as the “son of God” in the same passage from the letter to the Romans.

Paul often used this expression to describe Jesus, and Paul was consistent and clear about Jesus’ divinity throughout his letters.

If Paul believed that Jesus was born of a human mother and father, we would expect Paul to describe how a normal man, born of human parents, could be God Himself. Paul never does that, and this is consistent with the fact that Paul was aware of the virgin conception.

Look I honestly think you should just stick with Spinoza 😐

Joseph is also not mentioned in Mark's gospel - his name does not appear in Christian texts until decades later.

What the earliest texts do acknowledge is that Jesus' mother was Mary, with no mention of his father.

This absence is not explained in the earliest texts by a virgin birth, which indicates Jesus' paternity was not known or, under Judaic law, was illicit.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Online Dogs not cats! Posts: 49694 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #131 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:00am So Joseph was invented, hmmm.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #132 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:11am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:58am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:45am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 8:28am:

There's evidence that the Biblical Jesus is a fiction.

The first example would be his 'virgin' birth. Paul, a prolific writer who knew Jesus' contemporaries and his brother, makes no mention of Jesus' virgin birth because that myth did not exist during Paul's lifetime.

Re Paul

Paul consistently omits Joseph when describing the genealogy of Jesus.

In addition, Paul later refers to Jesus as the “son of God” in the same passage from the letter to the Romans.

Paul often used this expression to describe Jesus, and Paul was consistent and clear about Jesus’ divinity throughout his letters.

If Paul believed that Jesus was born of a human mother and father, we would expect Paul to describe how a normal man, born of human parents, could be God Himself. Paul never does that, and this is consistent with the fact that Paul was aware of the virgin conception.

Look I honestly think you should just stick with Spinoza 😐

Joseph is also not mentioned in Mark's gospel....

So? Luke’s gospel does. At chapter 3. You know about Luke don’t you? The Greek doctor dude?

Seriously....just stick with Spinoza.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Online Dogs not cats! Posts: 49694 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #133 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:15am Mark’s gospel was the earliest? Then not having Joseph in Mark’s gospel is significant. Hmmm.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #134 - Oct 11^th, 2023 at 9:18am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 11^th, 2023 at 5:52am:

There may have been a half-mad Jewish preacher with the name Jesus in Hebrew, but he was just a normal person.

No evidence exists the biblical Jesus existed: the so-called census causing Joseph and Mary to have to go to Bethlehem to be counted—no record exists of it. Not a mention anywhere in the Roman accounts of the time.

Jesus' name in Hebrew is Joshua (Yeshua). 'Jesus' is the Greek version of the name.

The Census story places, by anachronism, its date to the date of Jesus' birth.

Also, a Roman Census did not require mass movements of people to their place of birth - they were required to register themselves where they lived.

The fabrication of having to move to the father's place of birth, is to place Jesus as born in the birthplace of David - as Jusaic prophesies had stated where a great Messiah would be born.

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