Australian Politics Forum - Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 49771 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #180 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 2:33pm Any evidence for PP’s order?
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #181 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 2:36pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 2:31pm: The virgin birth and Jesus' birth in Bethlehem are certainly myths. IN YOUR PERSONAL OPINION.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #182 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 2:39pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 2:30pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 9:27am:

The best evidence for Jesus' existence is found in Acts.

Paul documented his bitter arguments with the Jerusalem Council, particularly with James, the brother of Jesus.

Paul, arguing for his status among the apostles, concedes that members of the Jerusalem Council knew Jesus in the flesh - a concession given with almost contempt for them, as he knows the living Jesus in the spirit, which he considers to be the real Jesus. and that Jesus - in the spirit - had called him to his ministry.

Ahhh ... now that IS a marvellous part of the Holy Bible. The intersecting of past and present prominent figures of early Christianity.

An issue for Atheists/Agnostics (and those in between) 👉 the non acceptance of the Holy Bible as a source document.

Note : THIS is a continuous source of contention btwn myself and my husband ( the agnostic/atheist OR atheist/agnostic depending on how he feels that day) 😩🥺😔

Hang on...aren’t you supposed to be an atheist Meister?

Your post isn’t coming from either an atheist OR an agnostic viewpoint. If anything your post suggests a Christian perspective.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #183 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 2:51pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 2:33pm:

Any evidence for PP’s order?

It's largely accepted that Jesus' disruption of temple proceedings is true.

If he did, it's certain that he would been aware he was flirting with arrest and execution.

The Temple Sanhedrin worked in cooperation with the Roman authorities who held the Sanhedrin's ceremonial robes and objects of office, which were handed to the Sanhedrin when they were required to officiate at the Temple. This kept the Sanhedrin in their place. Also, the Romans took a cut from temple taxes the Sanhedrin collected, (temple taxes being the reason Jesus disrupted the temple proceedings, and called the Sanhedrin thieves), so any disruption to this was dealt with severely by the Roman authorities.

However, Jesus was almost unknown in Jerusalem - being from the backward region of Galilee and, initially, no one was sure who he was.

It's possible Pilate sent him first to Herod as an act of feigned deference to Herod, who apparently did not want to be a part of it - possibly because Jesus' brother, James, was highly respected by the Sanhedrin and Jews in Jerusalem as righteous, just and zealous for the law. James was known as 'camel knees' due to the calluses that had grown from all his prostrations at the temple. He was dedicated to poverty and wore rags to demonstrate that all he owned and earned was gifted to the poor,

In any event, Jesus was returned to Pilate for judgment.

Given the person Pilate was, it would have taken him less than 10 seconds to condemn him to crucifixion.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 49771 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #184 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:01pm So no evidence.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #185 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:17pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:01pm:

So no evidence.

Given Paul, James and all the apostles accept that Jesus died by crucifixion, it lends credence to the story.

Crucifixion was practised in the region by the Romans alone, so it's certain that if the crucifixion happened, then the Romans carried it out.

Crucifixion was the worst possible form of punishment and humiliation and was reserved, almost exclusively, for insurrection against Rome.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #186 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:24pm Crucifixion in the region was previously practised by the Ancient Greeks and Persians. The Romans continued the terrible tradition. The Roman Emperor Constantine the Great stopped it in 337.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 49771 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #187 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:41pm Quote: Given Paul, James and all the apostles accept that Jesus died by crucifixion, it lends credence to the story. That isn’t evidence.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #188 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:52pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:41pm:

Quote:

Given Paul, James and all the apostles accept that Jesus died by crucifixion, it lends credence to the story.

That isn’t evidence.

Paul does not appear to detail any myths about Jesus in his writings that he does not believe. For example, Paul does not mention Jesus' virgin birth or Jesus' birth in Bethlehem - likely because no one at the time was claiming that Jesus was born in Bethlehem or of a virgin.

Paul is certain that Jesus was crucified and, given his role in the persecution of the Jerusalem community and his working relationships with the Sanhedrin, he would have had access to first-hand knowledge of the fate of the community's leader.

Initially, he totally rejected the story of Jesus' resurrection, although when be converted to the Jerusalem Community he accepted it.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #189 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:56pm So back to the topic - Christian Atheism - we go. Meister are you a Christian Atheist? You never did come back to me on that.
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Jovial Monk

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #190 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 4:15pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:52pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:41pm:

Quote:

Given Paul, James and all the apostles accept that Jesus died by crucifixion, it lends credence to the story.

That isn’t evidence.

Paul does not appear to detail any myths about Jesus in his writings that he does not believe. For example, Paul does not mention Jesus' virgin birth or Jesus' birth in Bethlehem - likely because no one at the time was claiming that Jesus was born in Bethlehem or of a virgin.

Paul is certain that Jesus was crucified and, given his role in the persecution of the Jerusalem community and his working relationships with the Sanhedrin, he would have had access to first-hand knowledge of the fate of the community's leader.

Initially, he totally rejected the story of Jesus' resurrection, although when be converted to the Jerusalem Community he accepted it.

Nah, just no real evidence.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #191 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 4:26pm So back to the topic - Christian Atheism - we go. Meister are you a Christian Atheist? You never did come back to me on that.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #192 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 6:34pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 4:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:52pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:41pm:

Quote:

Given Paul, James and all the apostles accept that Jesus died by crucifixion, it lends credence to the story.

That isn’t evidence.

Paul does not appear to detail any myths about Jesus in his writings that he does not believe. For example, Paul does not mention Jesus' virgin birth or Jesus' birth in Bethlehem - likely because no one at the time was claiming that Jesus was born in Bethlehem or of a virgin.

Paul is certain that Jesus was crucified and, given his role in the persecution of the Jerusalem community and his working relationships with the Sanhedrin, he would have had access to first-hand knowledge of the fate of the community's leader.

Initially, he totally rejected the story of Jesus' resurrection, although when be converted to the Jerusalem Community he accepted it.

Nah, just no real evidence.

What are your criteria for real evidence?

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 49771 Gender:	Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist? Reply #193 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 6:39pm Not the scribblings of a set of cutists. Some real historical record. No sign of any order by Pontius Pilate re “Jesus.” No sign of any census requiring J&M to head for Bethlehem.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Does “Christian Atheism” Really Exist?
Reply #194 - Oct 12^th, 2023 at 6:42pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:17pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 12^th, 2023 at 3:01pm:

So no evidence.

Given Paul, James and all the apostles accept that Jesus died by crucifixion, it lends credence to the story.

Crucifixion was practised in the region by the Romans alone, so it's certain that if the crucifixion happened, then the Romans carried it out.

Crucifixion was the worst possible form of punishment and humiliation and was reserved, almost exclusively, for insurrection against Rome.

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