Australian Politics Forum - Do Australians have the right to self defence?

greggerypeccary

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Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence?
Reply #30 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 2:35pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 1:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 1:29pm:

Belgarion wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 1:24pm:

To put this as simply as possible, you have the right to self defence as
long as the force used is reasonable under the circumstances.
So if you kill someone a court will decide if this was reasonable or not.

That's true but of course a court case is a very expensive and dangerous exercise.

The fact is you can't go to a police station and
apply for a gun license and say that - for example:

" I'm worried about home invasions - my reason for wanting a gun license is for self defence"

You also can't say -
" I have genuine death threats made against me -
my reason for wanting a gun license is for self defence"

All studies, reports, and statistics show that: a) owning a gun doesn't make you safer in your home, and; b) the use of guns in self-defense by private citizens is extremely rare.

That's true -
how would you defend yourself in the 2 examples I made above?

1. " I'm worried about home invasions - my reason for wanting a gun license is for self defence"

I don't spend a second of my day worrying about home invasions.

If it happened though, I would defend myself with my bare hands and anything in close reach.

2. " I have genuine death threats made against me -
my reason for wanting a gun license is for self defence"

Never gonna happen: to know me is to love me.

However, if it did, I'd report it to the police and be extra cautious.

Buying a gun would not be a consideration.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121989 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence? Reply #31 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 2:42pm Greggy, Quote: I would defend myself with my bare hands and anything in close reach. You must have studied Bruce Lee movies?
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence?
Reply #32 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 2:49pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 2:42pm:

Greggy,
Quote:

I would defend myself with my bare hands and anything in close reach.

You must have studied Bruce Lee movies?

"Playing guitar definitely makes our hands stronger. It makes us gain strength in the fingers and the muscles of the palm, and it also puts the wrist and forearm muscles to work. With constant practice we gain the coordination and speed necessary to play guitar (and fight off Bobby's imaginary bad guys)."

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121989 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence? Reply #33 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 2:52pm Greggy - stick to the pop quiz: https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1279424906/6968#6968
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chimera

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Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence?
Reply #34 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 3:23pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Why the fixation with guns?

The law prohibits the possession of ANYTHING for the purpose of self defence.
.

Probably it's from Eoin's extended fixation on guns. 'Right of self defence' is not 'possession of things for the purpose of self defence'. 'Right of self defence' is not 'right to guns'. Eoin is not right.

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Bias_2012 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10766 Gender:	Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence? Reply #35 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 4:16pm Bushie tackles knife wielding idiot in Dubbo shopping center https://www.9news.com.au/national/man-tackled-to-the-ground-dubbo-shopping-centr...
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121989 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence? Reply #36 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 4:55pm Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 4:16pm: Bushie tackles knife wielding idiot in Dubbo shopping center https://www.9news.com.au/national/man-tackled-to-the-ground-dubbo-shopping-centr... Good on him. Nice tackle - he could play in the NRL.
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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5520 Gender:	Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence? Reply #37 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 4:59pm no
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121989 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence? Reply #38 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:23pm I notice Aussie ran away after my Reply #19.
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Aussie

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Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence?
Reply #39 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:35pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:23pm:

I notice Aussie ran away after my Reply #19. Roll Eyes

Ever so sorry Bobby. I must remind myself that I have an obligation to hang around stupid Threads to respond to stupid posts.

The use of lethal force is legal in Qld (I have no idea about other States but likely the same) if that is what is required to prevent loss of life or grievous bodily harm.

If you had a gun and used it in that circumstance, if you were not licensed to have it, the worst you would be convicted of is having an unlicensed gun.

How f

uck

ing hard is that simple concept to understand?

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Bobby.

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Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence?
Reply #40 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:38pm

Aussie wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:35pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:23pm:

I notice Aussie ran away after my Reply #19. Roll Eyes

Ever so sorry Bobby. I must remind myself that I have an obligation to hang around stupid Threads to respond to stupid posts.

The use of lethal force is legal in Qld (I have no idea about other States but likely the same) if that is what is required to prevent loss of life or grievous bodily harm.

If you had a gun and used it in that circumstance, if you were not licensed to have it, the worst you would be convicted of is having an unlicensed gun.

How f

uck

ing hard is that simple concept to understand?

Really - how many years in prison would you get for that?

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Bobby.

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Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence?
Reply #41 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:44pm

Defenseless lawyer Mahmoud Abbas - shot -

I wonder if he would have safer had he been allowed to own a firearm?

https://www.9news.com.au/national/police-chasing-new-leads-after-lawyer-shot-out...

Police chasing new leads after lawyer shot outside home

By Miklos Bolza • AAP
7:22pm Aug 16, 2023

A lawyer shot outside his Sydney home has been asked to re-examine the data on his mobile phone as police chase down those responsible for the attack.
Earlier this week, the NSW Supreme Court ordered police to hand back solicitor Mahmoud Abbas' electronic devices, which were seized after a targeted shooting outside his Greenacre home on July 26.
On Wednesday, the court was told NSW Police were chasing new leads in their investigation and Abbas needed to urgently review some data on his mobile phone by Monday to assist in the case.

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Aussie

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Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence?
Reply #42 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 6:00pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:38pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:35pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:23pm:

I notice Aussie ran away after my Reply #19. Roll Eyes

Ever so sorry Bobby. I must remind myself that I have an obligation to hang around stupid Threads to respond to stupid posts.

The use of lethal force is legal in Qld (I have no idea about other States but likely the same) if that is what is required to prevent loss of life or grievous bodily harm.

If you had a gun and used it in that circumstance, if you were not licensed to have it, the worst you would be convicted of is having an unlicensed gun.

How f

uck

ing hard is that simple concept to understand?

Really - how many years in prison would you get for that?

None without some relevant nasty background.

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chimera

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Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence?
Reply #43 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 6:14pm

'Excessive self defence' in other States means the right to shoot is limited even when fearing grievous bodily harm. The self defender is then charged with manslaughter.

In Qld 'This protection [right to shoot] does not extend to a case in which the person using [self defence] force which causes death or grievous bodily harm first begun the assault with intent to kill or to do grievous bodily harm to some person; nor to a case in which the person using force which causes death or grievous bodily harm endeavoured to kill or to do grievous bodily harm to some person before the necessity of so preserving himself or herself arose; nor, in either case, unless, before such necessity arose, the person using such force declined further conflict,'.

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Bobby.

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Re: Do Australians have the right to self defence?
Reply #44 - Sep 14^th, 2023 at 7:40pm

Aussie wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 6:00pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:38pm:

Aussie wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:35pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 14^th, 2023 at 5:23pm:

I notice Aussie ran away after my Reply #19. Roll Eyes

Ever so sorry Bobby. I must remind myself that I have an obligation to hang around stupid Threads to respond to stupid posts.

The use of lethal force is legal in Qld (I have no idea about other States but likely the same) if that is what is required to prevent loss of life or grievous bodily harm.

If you had a gun and used it in that circumstance, if you were not licensed to have it, the worst you would be convicted of is having an unlicensed gun.

How f

uck

ing hard is that simple concept to understand?

Really - how many years in prison would you get for that?

None without some relevant nasty background.

But it says here:

https://www.criminaldefencelawyers.com.au/blog/weapons-licensing-laws-in-austral...

The following are a list of prohibited weapons offences and penalties in NSW under Part 4 Weapons Act:

5 years imprisonment: buying a prohibited weapon without authorised permit to possess it.

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