Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 24 25 26 27 
Send Topic Print
I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting. (Read 17988 times)
John Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #375 - Jun 28th, 2023 at 5:03pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 11:18am:
John Smith wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 8:31am:
issuevoter wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 4:02am:
John Smith wrote on Jun 27th, 2023 at 8:45pm:
How it's going to be set up is still to be determined.  Deliberately so. If they stipulated how it was set up and that got written into the constitution then every govt would be stuck with it forever, unless they had another referendum to remove it..  By leaving it out, govts are able to decide how to best frame it to suit the needs of society at that time.  The only certainty is that there will be a voice.  Whilst we might, for example,  want a 12 member panel now, in 100 years time we might find one person is sufficient. Allowing governments some flexibility as to how its made up is a good thing


This government justification can be reduced to "Trust me."



rubbish. The important thing is the recognition of a voice. How it's made up is mere bureaucracy

your arguing that you'd refuse to buy a house until you know the colour of your bed spread ... ludicrous.



Abos have hundreds of voices, including cabinet level ministers in every state and federally.

What can the Voice say that these hundreds of Aboriginal voices can't?



crap ...
Back to top
 

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 59849
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #376 - Jun 28th, 2023 at 5:50pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 4:50pm:
Quote:
So what the **** is the point of all those Aboriginal councils, organisations, ministries? And if parliament, ministers etc have been so unrepresentative of and deaf to Aboriginal views, why the **** do Abos want to talk to them??

And The Voice will not be democratically elected either, Arrsie.


Name them so I can answer relevantly.

As for the Voice not being democratically elected...do you read what Dreyfus said?

Quote:
The Voice will be an independent representative body. The intention is that its members will be selected by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples based on the wishes of local communities.


List: http://www.workingwithindigenousaustralians.info/content/Present_2_Structures.ht...
You are welcome to trowl through each state's registered Aboriginal corporations, councils etc.


Selected is not elected.

(The Senate was also 'intended' to be a states' house but it isn't. It is as politicised as the lower house.)


The Voice is not a modest change at all. It is the gateway to treaty, compensation, perpetual racial preferment.


See NIAA  Freedom of Information disclosure logs, esp 10.03.2023.

https://www.niaa.gov.au/foi/agency-foi-disclosure-logs

Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2023 at 6:03pm by Frank »  

20230628_180056.jpg (111 KB | 20 )
20230628_180056.jpg

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 59849
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #377 - Jun 28th, 2023 at 5:58pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 5:03pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 11:18am:
John Smith wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 8:31am:
issuevoter wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 4:02am:
John Smith wrote on Jun 27th, 2023 at 8:45pm:
How it's going to be set up is still to be determined.  Deliberately so. If they stipulated how it was set up and that got written into the constitution then every govt would be stuck with it forever, unless they had another referendum to remove it..  By leaving it out, govts are able to decide how to best frame it to suit the needs of society at that time.  The only certainty is that there will be a voice.  Whilst we might, for example,  want a 12 member panel now, in 100 years time we might find one person is sufficient. Allowing governments some flexibility as to how its made up is a good thing


This government justification can be reduced to "Trust me."



rubbish. The important thing is the recognition of a voice. How it's made up is mere bureaucracy

your arguing that you'd refuse to buy a house until you know the colour of your bed spread ... ludicrous.



Abos have hundreds of voices, including cabinet level ministers in every state and federally.

What can the Voice say that these hundreds of Aboriginal voices can't?



crap ...

Cheesy Cheesy  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Ya thick, stupid stunned mullet, you.
Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 15591
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #378 - Jun 28th, 2023 at 6:08pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 25th, 2023 at 1:39pm:
We talk about it regularly.


Meanwhile Xi is promoting common prosperity AND free markets.

Quote:
I find your efforts to defend the CCP's killing of 50 million people with their lies and incompetence rather alarming.


Of course you do; you find the idea of rule of law on behalf of collective well-being alarming.

Your blind, instrict-driven  'individul sovereignty' ideology, living in the past to defend your blindly self-interested ideology.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 15591
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #379 - Jun 28th, 2023 at 6:16pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 5:50pm:
The Voice is not a modest change at all. It is the gateway to treaty, compensation, perpetual racial preferment.



Answered in the other thread; you brought it on yourself by tolerating  intolerable poverty among blacks after the demise of the state-imposed  "protection" system, and throwing blacks onto the tender mercies of the neoliberal market economy with its "welfare"/ "unemployment scrap heap"  as a soul-destroying 'safety net'.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39903
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #380 - Jun 28th, 2023 at 6:35pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 5:50pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 4:50pm:
Quote:
So what the **** is the point of all those Aboriginal councils, organisations, ministries? And if parliament, ministers etc have been so unrepresentative of and deaf to Aboriginal views, why the **** do Abos want to talk to them??

And The Voice will not be democratically elected either, Arrsie.


Name them so I can answer relevantly.

As for the Voice not being democratically elected...do you read what Dreyfus said?

Quote:
The Voice will be an independent representative body. The intention is that its members will be selected by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples based on the wishes of local communities.


List: http://www.workingwithindigenousaustralians.info/content/Present_2_Structures.ht...
You are welcome to trowl through each state's registered Aboriginal corporations, councils etc.


Selected is not elected.

(The Senate was also 'intended' to be a states' house but it isn't. It is as politicised as the lower house.)


The Voice is not a modest change at all. It is the gateway to treaty, compensation, perpetual racial preferment.


See NIAA  Freedom of Information disclosure logs, esp 10.03.2023.

https://www.niaa.gov.au/foi/agency-foi-disclosure-logs



Nah....you made the stupid claim.  You support it. 

I know you can't as each of those bodies have functions being primarily community orientated for specific purposes unrelated to advice to Government/Executive.  For example....ATSILS......I know all there is to know.  Its function was to provide legal assistance to the black fella, and had no advisory role.

Yes, 'selected' might mean the communities pick without an election, but...point it....the decision is made by each community and has nothing to do with you, you moron. Whoever they select is up to them....NOT YOU.  It is their Voice, not yours.  It will not trouble you one iota, immigrant.

You sailed/flew here, they were here for 60,000 plus years before you lobbed in Soren.  (I assume that is short for Sorrenson, yes?)
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #381 - Jun 28th, 2023 at 8:23pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 6:16pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 5:50pm:
The Voice is not a modest change at all. It is the gateway to treaty, compensation, perpetual racial preferment.



Answered in the other thread; you brought it on yourself ....


Oh so you agree with Frank then. Good to know ✅
Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #382 - Jun 28th, 2023 at 8:25pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 6:08pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 25th, 2023 at 1:39pm:
I find your efforts to defend the CCP's killing of 50 million people with their lies and incompetence rather alarming.




Of course you do; you find the idea of rule of law on behalf of collective well-being alarming.




I think I’ll leave that as is. NotsoGreat’s remarkable and unique brand of insanity needs an opportunity to shine 😐
Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53324
At my desk.
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #383 - Jun 29th, 2023 at 5:47pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 6:08pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 25th, 2023 at 1:39pm:
We talk about it regularly.


Meanwhile Xi is promoting common prosperity AND free markets.

Quote:
I find your efforts to defend the CCP's killing of 50 million people with their lies and incompetence rather alarming.


Of course you do; you find the idea of rule of law on behalf of collective well-being alarming.

Your blind, instrict-driven  'individul sovereignty' ideology, living in the past to defend your blindly self-interested ideology.


Are you  saying that the CCP starved 50 million Chinese people to death for the collective wellbeing?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Offline


\/ Peace man!

Posts: 17443
Northern NSW
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #384 - Jun 29th, 2023 at 6:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2023 at 5:47pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 6:08pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 25th, 2023 at 1:39pm:
We talk about it regularly.


Meanwhile Xi is promoting common prosperity AND free markets.

Quote:
I find your efforts to defend the CCP's killing of 50 million people with their lies and incompetence rather alarming.


Of course you do; you find the idea of rule of law on behalf of collective well-being alarming.

Your blind, instrict-driven  'individul sovereignty' ideology, living in the past to defend your blindly self-interested ideology.


Are you  saying that the CCP starved 50 million Chinese people to death for the collective wellbeing?


Well, yes, for the birth of the greatest meritocracy the world has seen! You should also take note that he left the white privilege thread when I asked if there was Han privilege in Asia.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 59849
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #385 - Jun 30th, 2023 at 10:19am
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 6:35pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 5:50pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 4:50pm:
Quote:
So what the **** is the point of all those Aboriginal councils, organisations, ministries? And if parliament, ministers etc have been so unrepresentative of and deaf to Aboriginal views, why the **** do Abos want to talk to them??

And The Voice will not be democratically elected either, Arrsie.


Name them so I can answer relevantly.

As for the Voice not being democratically elected...do you read what Dreyfus said?

Quote:
The Voice will be an independent representative body. The intention is that its members will be selected by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples based on the wishes of local communities.


List: http://www.workingwithindigenousaustralians.info/content/Present_2_Structures.ht...
You are welcome to trowl through each state's registered Aboriginal corporations, councils etc.


Selected is not elected.

(The Senate was also 'intended' to be a states' house but it isn't. It is as politicised as the lower house.)


The Voice is not a modest change at all. It is the gateway to treaty, compensation, perpetual racial preferment.


See NIAA  Freedom of Information disclosure logs, esp 10.03.2023.

https://www.niaa.gov.au/foi/agency-foi-disclosure-logs



Nah....you made the stupid claim.  You support it. 

I know you can't as each of those bodies have functions being primarily community orientated for specific purposes unrelated to advice to Government/Executive.  For example....ATSILS......I know all there is to know.  Its function was to provide legal assistance to the black fella, and had no advisory role.

Yes, 'selected' might mean the communities pick without an election, but...point it....the decision is made by each community and has nothing to do with you, you moron. Whoever they select is up to them....NOT YOU.  It is their Voice, not yours.  It will not trouble you one iota, immigrant.

You sailed/flew here, they were here for 60,000 plus years before you lobbed in Soren.  (I assume that is short for Sorrenson, yes?)


Good to see that besudes race based hierarchy of citizenship and democratic rights, there are others.  Some citizens are more equal than others.



Anyway....

The registrar is an independent statutory office holder who administers the Corporations (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander) Act 2006.

The registrar's office supports and regulates corporations by:

advising on how to incorporate
training directors, members and key staff in good governance
ensuring compliance with the law
intervening when needed

Total registered corporations: 3338

https://www.oric.gov.au/

And

https://azgovbiz.com.au/indigenous-list

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Organisations_serving_Indigenous_Austra...

http://www.workingwithindigenousaustralians.info/content/Present_2_Structures.ht...

https://www.acnc.gov.au/charity/charities/acfa5724-39af-e811-a960-000d3ad24282/d...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Congress_of_Australia%27s_First_Peoples




It IS a massive industry, being Abo, with a cacophony of voices - except into the ears of out of control Abos. All those sly bloody "elders" are busy holding out their hands for smoking ceremony and 'welcome to country' fees instead of exerting their supposed 'cultural influence' on their out of control 'communities'. Why give them a Voice to parliament when their own 'communities' are deaf to them?



Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Racist Filth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 90630
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #386 - Jun 30th, 2023 at 12:54pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 6:16pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 28th, 2023 at 5:50pm:
The Voice is not a modest change at all. It is the gateway to treaty, compensation, perpetual racial preferment.



Answered in the other thread; you brought it on yourself by tolerating  intolerable poverty among blacks after the demise of the state-imposed  "protection" system, and throwing blacks onto the tender mercies of the neoliberal market economy with its "welfare"/ "unemployment scrap heap"  as a soul-destroying 'safety net'.


Ya gotta love that one............................
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 59849
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #387 - Jul 1st, 2023 at 12:05pm
 
The voice need only send a letter on the first day of its existence to every government department, agency or body saying it wishes to make representations on all “matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples”. asking for advance notice of all such matters and for the time and resources to consider such matters properly, and thereafter each such government entity will have a constitutional duty to comply.

Once those entities of executive government have complied with that request, the voice will have all the rights conferred by administrative law to ensure their representations are allowed due process and that decisions about them comply with the rigorous standards of administrative law. Failure to do so means any decision that is the subject of a representation may be stopped until litigation about compliance with constitutional and administrative law is completed. In short, the voice can, if it wishes, work to bring the processes of government to a grinding halt.

The activists who dictated the maximalist drafting of the proposed amendment – especially its reference to “executive government” – know this. Those few words will leave the government at the mercy of the voice when it comes to negotiating a treaty.

The lesson is this. A Yes vote in the referendum is not the end of the process but rather the starting gun to a long and divisive treaty negotiation where the voice has the whip hand. This will likely lead to separatism and bitterness, not ­reconciliation.

So if you are worried about the voice, wait until you see the treaty.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/worried-about-the-indigenous-voice-to-parliament-wait-until-you-see-the-treaty/news-story/780cacd9532701d4652c35b937fea21c


Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
John Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #388 - Jul 1st, 2023 at 2:11pm
 
sore end is sooo stupid he'll believe anything murdick writes  Cheesy
Back to top
 

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 59849
Gender: male
Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #389 - Jul 1st, 2023 at 2:36pm
 
Frank wrote on Jul 1st, 2023 at 12:05pm:
The voice need only send a letter on the first day of its existence to every government department, agency or body saying it wishes to make representations on all “matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples”. asking for advance notice of all such matters and for the time and resources to consider such matters properly, and thereafter each such government entity will have a constitutional duty to comply.

Once those entities of executive government have complied with that request, the voice will have all the rights conferred by administrative law to ensure their representations are allowed due process and that decisions about them comply with the rigorous standards of administrative law. Failure to do so means any decision that is the subject of a representation may be stopped until litigation about compliance with constitutional and administrative law is completed. In short, the voice can, if it wishes, work to bring the processes of government to a grinding halt.

The activists who dictated the maximalist drafting of the proposed amendment – especially its reference to “executive government” – know this. Those few words will leave the government at the mercy of the voice when it comes to negotiating a treaty.

The lesson is this. A Yes vote in the referendum is not the end of the process but rather the starting gun to a long and divisive treaty negotiation where the voice has the whip hand. This will likely lead to separatism and bitterness, not ­reconciliation.

So if you are worried about the voice, wait until you see the treaty.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/worried-about-the-indigenous-voice-to-parliament-wait-until-you-see-the-treaty/news-story/780cacd9532701d4652c35b937fea21c



The Uluru statement is the starting point. It calls for a “First Nations Voice enshrined in the Constitution” but acknowledges this is not the culmination of their ambition. As the statement says, “Makarrata is the culmination of our ­agenda … we seek a Makarrata Commission to supervise a process of agreement-making between government and First Nations and truth-telling about our history”.

Given Albanese said in his election victory speech “on behalf of the Australian Labor Party, I commit to the Uluru Statement from the Heart in full”, Australians need to understand clearly what this treaty – the end point of the Uluru statement – means.

The definitive description of what the treaty means can be found in the 2020 edition of the book Treaty by George Williams and Harry Hobbs. Williams is a prominent legal academic from the University of NSW and was a member of the constitutional expert group that advised the government on the drafting of the proposed constitutional amendment. Hobbs is also a Sydney legal academic.

Sovereignty, the first aim of a treaty, raises fundamental questions about how the country will be governed in the future. As the Uluru statement shows, those pushing for treaty, including Williams, Hobbs and other members of the academic legal movement, do not accept the traditional view that we have in Australia a single sovereign entity in whom exclusive legal and political power is vested.
...
Williams and Hobbs call for a treaty which meets three conditions: “First, it must recognise Indigenous peoples as a polity, distinct from other citizens of the state on the basis of their status as prior self-governing communities. Second, the agreement must be reached by a fair negotiating process conducted in good faith and in a manner respectful of each participant’s standing as a polity. Third, the agreement must settle each party’s claims … (t)his must include the state recognising or establishing some form of decision making and control for the Indigenous people that amounts to a form of self-government.”

The first element requires us to accept that Australia is not one indivisible nation. It has two polities. The first and third elements call for some form of self-government by Aboriginal people.
Ibid.


There was simply NO single Aboriginal sovereignty pre-1788 and there isn't one now. There is NOT a single Aboriginal Voice. No tribe can speak for another tribe. They NEVER had a united Aboriginal sovereignty, ever.

Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 24 25 26 27 
Send Topic Print