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I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting. (Read 17961 times)
buzzanddidj
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I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Jun 21st, 2023 at 9:29pm
 
I'll be the FIRST to admit that I'm not fully aware of EVERYTHING "the Indigenous Voice to Parliament" entails - but I know, beyond doubt, I'm more 'clued up' than most on the matter.

If you gave me a list of 20 regular Ozpolitics posters - I'd have no trouble in isolating the 'NO' voters
.

They'd be the ones with past form as Aboriginal bashers.
The right-wing deplorables.
The Albanese hate mongers.

I will not be following
Dutton
's directive of a 'NO' to an
Indigenous advisory representation
to our parliaments.

I will not be following
Hanson
's obsesive hatred of indigenous Australians - following through backing a 'NO' vote to an
Indigenous Advisory Voice
to our Federal Parliament.

I will not be falling into line with
multi-millionaire Warren 'Uncle Tom' Mundine
, in his quest to have no other indigenous Australians share his power base and influence on Australian governments.

Nor will I be taking a lead from
Lidia 'mad as a cut snake' Thorpe
on, well, ANYTHING



If I follow ANYONES lead, it will be the authors of the
Uluru Statement from the Heart


https://ulurustatemdev.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/UluruStatementfro...


As debate about the Voice continues, this pervasive myth about 'secret documents' continues to surface

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-16/fact-check-jacinta-nampijinpa-price-secre...





.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #1 - Jun 21st, 2023 at 10:13pm
 
I’m pretty sure I know that we don’t care how you’ll be voting.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #2 - Jun 21st, 2023 at 11:04pm
 
You can tear apart the Uluru Statement from the Heart in no time.

Quote:
This sovereignty is a spiritual notion: the ancestral tie between the land, or ‘mother nature’, and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples who were born therefrom, remain attached thereto, and must one day return thither to be united with our ancestors. This link is the basis of the ownership of the soil, or better, of sovereignty. It has never been ceded or extinguished, and co-exists with the sovereignty of the Crown.


Indigenous people lost the Settler War. Indigenous people now live by European laws. Indigenous people have been invited to live with non-indigenous Australians, since 1967. Don't like it? Go wander the forests, grasslands, and deserts of that 15% of Australia that indigenous people do own. But, go without the modern technology and conveniences that non-indigenous people have brought into your lives.
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At this stage...
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #3 - Jun 21st, 2023 at 11:11pm
 
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #4 - Jun 21st, 2023 at 11:49pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 21st, 2023 at 11:04pm:
You can tear apart the Uluru Statement from the Heart in no time.

Quote:
This sovereignty is a spiritual notion: the ancestral tie between the land, or ‘mother nature’, and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples who were born therefrom, remain attached thereto, and must one day return thither to be united with our ancestors. This link is the basis of the ownership of the soil, or better, of sovereignty. It has never been ceded or extinguished, and co-exists with the sovereignty of the Crown.


Indigenous people lost the Settler War. Indigenous people now live by European laws. Indigenous people have been invited to live with non-indigenous Australians, since 1967. Don't like it? Go wander the forests, grasslands, and deserts of that 15% of Australia that indigenous people do own. But, go without the modern technology and conveniences that non-indigenous people have brought into your lives.


Then sovereignty can remain a spiritual notion....... no problem.... NEXT!!

We all have 'ties to the land' along exactly the same lines ... NEXT!!

It was ceded when the Black Australia Policy was defeated on the field of battle when the Aborigines sought to drive the White Men back into the sea with a campaign of terrorism and murder of innocents and failed dismally ..... NEXT!!

It was also ceded the moment they applied for and obtained any benefit from the modern government, at which point they had to state they were Australian citizens.  Sovereignty ceded.  NEXT!!

No sovereignty can exist alongside that of the sovereignty that governs the nation and gives those benefits... NEXT!!

There can be only one law in the land to bind them all ... a house divided against itself cannot stand, and the only avenue open to those who disagree is secession, surrender of all rights and benefits, and at the minimum banishment to their own self-contained Homeland; at the worst civil war in which they will be defeated again .... NEXT!!
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #5 - Jun 22nd, 2023 at 12:25am
 

I'll be voting NO.  I'm guessing this silly "voice" thing
will be a massive failure—just as ATSIC was before it.

The government abolished ATSIC in April 2004, saying
that "the experiment in elected representation for
Indigenous people has been a failure". 

Its replacement, the National Indigenous Council was
then established to develop "strategies which would
improve the delivery of services to Indigenous Australians",
but was also wound up as a failure in 2008, after only
four years.

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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #6 - Jun 22nd, 2023 at 7:21am
 
So far I think you are closest to admitting you will vote yes. But you couldn't quite get there. Why is that? Are you still a closet racist?
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #7 - Jun 23rd, 2023 at 12:51am
 


What?   Who are you talking to?      Huh




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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #8 - Jun 23rd, 2023 at 12:56am
 
Anyone a subscriber to "The Voice 2023 - Yes or No"? There has been some interesting interactions.
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At this stage...
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Frank
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #9 - Jun 23rd, 2023 at 5:55am
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Jun 21st, 2023 at 9:29pm:
If I follow ANYONES lead, it will be the authors of the
Uluru Statement from the Heart


https://ulurustatemdev.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/UluruStatementfro...


As debate about the Voice continues, this pervasive myth about 'secret documents' continues to surface

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-16/fact-check-jacinta-nampijinpa-price-secre...


You mean the Uluru Statement from Africa.


Out of Africa: Uluru statement from the heart
The current debate about the proposed Indigenous voice to parliament is impossible to separate from the Uluru Statement from the Heart, which is where everything began.

This document, drawn up in May 2017, outlines an agenda for change that has been endorsed by the Labor Party and was even presented to the Pope. It won last year’s Sydney Peace Prize and in some states it is being taught and discussed in schools.

But here’s rub: the most poetic part of this document, the section that refers to sovereignty as a spiritual notion, is not original and the real author was referring to Africans, not Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders.

It was copied from a 1975 ruling of the International Court of Justice that concerned the people of the Western Sahara.

The primary author of that passage was a gifted jurist from Zaire, Nicolas Bayona-Ba-Meya, whose submission to the court was picked up and incorporated in the ruling handed down by judge Fouad Ammoun, the court’s Lebanese vice-president.,


This link between the Uluru statement and the work of Bayona-Ba-Meya and Fouad Ammoun is outlined in a new book on the voice by Jesuit priest and lawyer Frank Brennan.

He points out the words from Ammoun’s judgment in the Western Sahara case found their way to Australia in 1992, when they were reproduced in the High Court’s Mabo ruling that overturned the doctrine of terra nullius – that Australia was an empty land owned by nobody.

From there, Brennan writes that an adapted version found its way into the Uluru statement. The similarity between Uluru and the passage in Ammoun’s judgment about the Western Sahara is uncanny.

Consider the third paragraph of the Uluru statement that concludes with the assertion that Indigenous sovereignty has never been ceded or extinguished and coexists with the sovereignty of the Crown.

That paragraph starts by describing sovereignty as “a spiritual notion: the ancestral tie between the land, or ‘mother nature’, and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples who were born therefrom, remain attached thereto, and must one day return thither to be united with our ancestors. This link is the basis of the ownership of the soil, or better, of sovereignty”.

This is the only section of the Uluru statement that uses archaic forms of language and, according to Brennan: “Not many 21st century Aboriginal Australians use terms like therefrom, thereto and thither.”

Now consider Ammoun’s original passage, which uses those archaic terms and which appeared twice in the Mabo judgment.

The Lebanese judge wrote that the submission of Bayona-Ba-Meya substitutes for terra nullius “a spiritual notion: the ancestral tie between the land, or ‘mother nature’, and the man who was born therefrom, remains attached thereto, and must one day return thither to be united with his ancestors. This link is the basis of the ownership of the soil, or better, of sovereignty”.

With only superficial changes, the Uluru statement reproduces this entire passage, right down to the colon after the first three words, without attribution to either the High Court, Ammoun or, more importantly, Bayona-Ba-Meya, who conceived of sovereignty as a spiritual concept.

https://ruleoflawaustralia.com.au/commentary/out-of-africa-uluru-statement-from-...
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #10 - Jun 23rd, 2023 at 8:28am
 
I will not be voting against an Aboriginal voice in parliament. I will vote against giving parliament a free hand with the make up and powers of such a voice. See paragraph 3. How many Yes voters are even aware of paragraph 3?

Most democracies would laugh at such a proposition.
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Lisa Jones
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So many reasons to VOTE NO!
Reply #11 - Jun 23rd, 2023 at 8:40am
 
Australia is being warned 👇

https://ipa.org.au/ipa-today/the-new-zealand-maori-voice-to-parliament-and-what-...

👆
Essentially...the Voice has the potential to radically reshape Australia’s representative constitutional democracy. The Voice could operate like a third chamber of parliament and wield a veto power over the day-to-day functions of government and parliament.

This is not only incompatible with Australia’s legal and political heritage, but inconsistent with Australia’s preference for a race-blind constitution. This was a point that was most clearly expressed at the 1967 referendum, where 91 per cent of Australian electors chose to remove from the Australian Constitution two divisive references to race.

The parliament, being open for participation to all Australians, remains the best institution to represent all Australians.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #12 - Jun 23rd, 2023 at 4:27pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Jun 23rd, 2023 at 12:51am:
What?   Who are you talking to?      Huh






Buzz. He sort of hinted he would be voting yes. But not a single member here, from what I have seen, has actually said they would be voting yes. They seem afraid to. It's like they are all closet no voters who are flagellating themselves for being racist.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #13 - Jun 23rd, 2023 at 5:01pm
 
Maybe y'all wanna check my monicker, Pilgrims..... it says "Proud NO Vote Bigot!"  Ya get ta love it or hate it - all on yer own time....... but whatever insults ya hurl at me are gonna come back ta bite ya...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Lisa Jones
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Re: I'm Pretty Sure I Know How I'LL Be Voting.
Reply #14 - Jun 23rd, 2023 at 5:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 23rd, 2023 at 4:27pm:
AusGeoff wrote on Jun 23rd, 2023 at 12:51am:
What?   Who are you talking to?      Huh






Buzz. He sort of hinted he would be voting yes. But not a single member here, from what I have seen, has actually said they would be voting yes. They seem afraid to. It's like they are all closet no voters who are flagellating themselves for being racist.


It’s not a matter of being AFRAID to vote yes.

We’re not STUPID to vote yes.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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