Australian Politics Forum - If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing.

freediver

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Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing.
Reply #45 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 7:26am

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21^st, 2023 at 12:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 21^st, 2023 at 6:45am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 20^th, 2023 at 2:51pm:

And they keep telling us that removing negative won't increase supply then a simple solution is to limit negative gearing to brand new house and land packages instead of recycling the same old dumps that were built 50 years ago. This will encourage the property hoarders to invest in new houses which will increase supply. Problem solved, otherwise it is just a tax avoidance scheme for the non productive side of the economy who won't invest in anything else Sad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1maTkeUSMM&t=1631s

Perhaps you should seek to understand why "they" want to keep negative gearing before offering economic advice.

because the pollies are being paid to much and are paying too much tax Wink

That is not why.

How many economists do you know of who oppose negative gearing?

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JC Denton

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Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing.
Reply #46 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 7:37am

who gives a sh_t about negative gearing

its a minor contributor to land costs, much bigger contributors are too much immigration driven pop growth relative to the amount of supply and other things

that being said imagine trying to appeal to economists as a source on anything

hack quasi soft science bullsh_t that mostly seems to be a post facto justification for elites

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Jovial Monk

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Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing.
Reply #47 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 7:38am

Quote:

Senior economists have suggested the Federal Government should scrap negative gearing, a move that would save $5 billion in the first year. Negative gearing allows property investors to claim expenses for a rental property including interest payments, repairs and council rates to reduce tax paid on any other income.
Economists say Government should scrap negative gearing tax br…

www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-06/economists-say-government-should-scrap-negative-g...

Quote:

Inheritance taxes and negative gearing: how …
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/30/australia-top...

A quarter of those surveyed backed winding back the ability to negatively gear (write off against tax) expenses incurred in owning investment properties, a concession costed by the tax expenditures statement at $24.4bn a year. Blundell-Wignall said negative gearing should have been wound back years ago: few … See more

DO economists back keeping negative gearing?

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freediver

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Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing.
Reply #48 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 7:59am

Jovial Monk wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 7:38am:

Quote:

Senior economists have suggested the Federal Government should scrap negative gearing, a move that would save $5 billion in the first year. Negative gearing allows property investors to claim expenses for a rental property including interest payments, repairs and council rates to reduce tax paid on any other income.
Economists say Government should scrap negative gearing tax br…

www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-06/economists-say-government-should-scrap-negative-g...

Quote:

Inheritance taxes and negative gearing: how …
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/30/australia-top...

A quarter of those surveyed backed winding back the ability to negatively gear (write off against tax) expenses incurred in owning investment properties, a concession costed by the tax expenditures statement at $24.4bn a year. Blundell-Wignall said negative gearing should have been wound back years ago: few … See more

DO economists back keeping negative gearing?

From your first article:

Quote:

The Housing Industry Association's chief economist Harley Dale disagreed.

"One of the principal arguments made by opponents of negative gearing is that it would supposedly magically unlock all this housing stock as it's offloaded and becomes available for first homebuyers," Mr Dale said.

"I don't think the world works in that simple naive manner."

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing. Reply #49 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 8:38am He does not say NG should be retained tho, just says the results, in terms of existing homes made available to home buyers won’t be immediately obvious.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing.
Reply #50 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 8:45am

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 7:59am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 7:38am:

Quote:

Senior economists have suggested the Federal Government should scrap negative gearing, a move that would save $5 billion in the first year. Negative gearing allows property investors to claim expenses for a rental property including interest payments, repairs and council rates to reduce tax paid on any other income.
Economists say Government should scrap negative gearing tax br…

www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-06/economists-say-government-should-scrap-negative-g...

Quote:

Inheritance taxes and negative gearing: how …
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/30/australia-top...

A quarter of those surveyed backed winding back the ability to negatively gear (write off against tax) expenses incurred in owning investment properties, a concession costed by the tax expenditures statement at $24.4bn a year. Blundell-Wignall said negative gearing should have been wound back years ago: few … See more

DO economists back keeping negative gearing?

From your first article:

Quote:

The Housing Industry Association's chief economist Harley Dale disagreed.

"One of the principal arguments made by opponents of negative gearing is that it would supposedly magically unlock all this housing stock as it's offloaded and becomes available for first homebuyers," Mr Dale said.

"I don't think the world works in that simple naive manner."

Freediver

Did you notice that Monk is desperately relying on ONE article that’s TEN years old AND riddled with disagreements by other economists AND has never been actioned by ANY government in office since?

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing. Reply #51 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 8:59am Nothing desperate about it, larry dear. I did a search on “economists on negative gearing” and posted the first two. Enough to cast doubt on FD’s silly statement about economists wanting NG retained.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing.
Reply #52 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 9:10am

Drunk :

1. You googled.

2. You found something that’s almost 10 years old.

3. You are still to realise that it’s an opinion by an economist who hasn’t offered his name AND whose opinion has never gained traction by any party in Federal office.

4. You’re sitting there not realising how desperate and clueless you are.

Ok I have to ask ... how much alcohol have you drunk (to keep warm) this morning?

Meantime I think the rest of us will have to move on and do what we usually do ie leave you behind to continue fantasising about your boyfriend Larry.

Edit 1 : FYI Drunk .... it’s 2023.

Edit 2 : OMG .... you are reading/relying on something which a Bank of America economist stated back in 2014 ffs AND who was immediately debunked by Australian economists!

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing. Reply #53 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 9:11am Yes, I googled, I bloody said so! So what?
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Sir lastnail

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Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing.
Reply #54 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 9:17am

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 7:26am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21^st, 2023 at 12:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 21^st, 2023 at 6:45am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 20^th, 2023 at 2:51pm:

And they keep telling us that removing negative won't increase supply then a simple solution is to limit negative gearing to brand new house and land packages instead of recycling the same old dumps that were built 50 years ago. This will encourage the property hoarders to invest in new houses which will increase supply. Problem solved, otherwise it is just a tax avoidance scheme for the non productive side of the economy who won't invest in anything else Sad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1maTkeUSMM&t=1631s

Perhaps you should seek to understand why "they" want to keep negative gearing before offering economic advice.

because the pollies are being paid to much and are paying too much tax Wink

That is not why.

How many economists do you know of who oppose negative gearing?

Saul Eslake, Steve Keen, Grattan Institute...

And the payoff to the general public is lots of rental dumps they can never own Sad

But it's a supply issue Cheesy

LOL

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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing.
Reply #55 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 9:19am

Well - it's a pretty simple equation.... if it 'saves' money somewhere, then clearly that money must be going somewhere before the savings are put in place..... therefore it is a handout to those who least need it.

Bleed me a river about the 'mums and pops' investors who manage to sneak in under the corporates ...... there is not one argument left on this Earth to support both negative gearing for business and concessional tax on sale. Business must pay its way.

I slugged Chim Jalmers yesterday about his empty-headed comment that somehow 'baby boomers' were the root of all evil.... well, Jim - we are more than happy to remove your fancy salary and perks and super and make of you just another struggling baby boomer in retirement..... no problem, son. Twenty years in the gulag should struggle your thinking into the correct channels.... your kind of non-thinking must be isolated from the general community lest you infect weak minds....

This country desperately needs a new form of government - one where they cop $100k pa and costs on approved application, and such... and no amazing super fund funded by treasury at an exorbitant rate.

Let's see how many want the job then ................ you never met a poor retired politician...... azs someone said - we shouldn't be looking at the rich people who go into politics, but at the poor people who do that and come out rich. And all politicians and family must be strictly banned from participating in any 'ventures' funded by government...... how many have bought up packets of shares in the submarines repairs etc facilities already? Cool

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sir lastnail

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Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing.
Reply #56 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 9:19am

JC Denton wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 7:37am:

who gives a sh_t about negative gearing

its a minor contributor to land costs, much bigger contributors are too much immigration driven pop growth relative to the amount of supply and other things

that being said imagine trying to appeal to economists as a source on anything

hack quasi soft science bullsh_t that mostly seems to be a post facto justification for elites

20 billions worth of tax concessions every year to benefit property hoarders is not minor !!

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"If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region..." - Benjamin Netanyahu in 1995

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing. Reply #57 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 9:26am A bit over $24Bn yearly now, Lost Nail.
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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing.
Reply #58 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 9:37am

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 9:19am:

JC Denton wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 7:37am:

who gives a sh_t about negative gearing

its a minor contributor to land costs, much bigger contributors are too much immigration driven pop growth relative to the amount of supply and other things

that being said imagine trying to appeal to economists as a source on anything

hack quasi soft science bullsh_t that mostly seems to be a post facto justification for elites

20 billions worth of tax concessions every year to benefit property hoarders is not minor !!

Don't forget all the other issues I raised last night - not least the banks and their willingness to lend on a 'business plan' that is guaranteed by someone being forced to pay exorbitant rent, while making it hard for families to own their own home. Of course the banks and the government, many of the members own investment properties - want this bubble to continue and this imbalance to persist and perpetuate itself.... they can guarantee ever-increasing profits - and then they don't even want to pay tax on them when they sell them off.

Whenever I hear the trite phrase 'tax reform', that's my first port of call... that and business tax rules not shared by individuals (being based on the late 18th century when only the rich had a vote etc and the wherewithal to invest and thus made the rules - long overdue for change)..

You get where this country is off the rails? What did Hawkie do to us when he de-regulated the banks and loosed them upon the sleeping land...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53355 At my desk.	Re: If they are hell bent on keeping negative gearing. Reply #59 - Jun 22^nd, 2023 at 9:06pm Monk, Nail et al, do you think it is a good idea for the tax department to send people bankrupt by giving them a hug tax bill in a year in which they actually lose money?
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