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Poll Poll
Question: In a criminal court would Ben Roberts Smith be found guilty?

Yes    
  5 (35.7%)
No    
  6 (42.9%)
I can’t decide    
  2 (14.3%)
Ben will probably use mental health legislation    
  1 (7.1%)




Total votes: 14
« Created by: Lisa Jones on: Jun 9th, 2023 at 4:31pm »

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Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC (Read 4427 times)
Laugh till you cry
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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #60 - Jun 10th, 2023 at 7:08pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jun 10th, 2023 at 6:59pm:
Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 10th, 2023 at 3:10pm:
If BR-S is not prosecuted for murder there is no justice in Australia.

The ADF has had its reputation badly tarnished.

Nobody with morals and ethics would voluntarily enlist in an organization that has allowed murder and other crimes against humanity to go unpunished and indeed has covered them up.



You dypstick  ... no one will enlist in an organisation that doesn't take care of it's vetrans & throws it's soldiers under a bus to cover for their own ineptitude.

You can't tarnish an already stained organisation led by clowns more intent on wokeism & diversity instead of running a Defence Force.

Like you .... none of these front bottom
s
would have your back when the chips were down.


Murder and its concealment are not an exercise in ineptitude. It is a criminal act.

Gnads' morals are as decrepit as the old codger's physical condition.
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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #61 - Jun 10th, 2023 at 7:30pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jun 10th, 2023 at 6:50pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2023 at 7:04pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 9th, 2023 at 6:25pm:
Bias I think you’re right. In fact the more I think about it the more I’m convinced that this isn’t going to be a great victory for the ADF at all. For starters THEY promoted him into these amazing yet extremely dangerous positions. And at a young age too. How many tours of duty did he complete? And at what level? They ie the ADF may well THINK they have their fall guy trapped in their net but I’m not so sure about that.

Robert Smith is a survivor. He has been trained to survive anything.

I see the ADF heading towards a pyrrhic victory where they will end up paying for everything in terms of legal costs including compensation for Roberts Smith.

Roberts Smith will walk away leaving the lawyers and the ADF to sort out the legal mess and we will probably be told he’s happily retired on some tropical quiet island so he can write his memoirs.

Occasionally we’ll hear of shady people strangely disappearing around the globe and I have no doubt Roberts Smith will be somehow involved in stuff like that. Hired assassins with his survival skills can make a killing (pun fully intended). Of course we’ll never know but at some stage it would not surprise me if his CV is quietly passed on to some government entity (I’m thinking CIA etc) for a little job here and there in the “waste management” industry.

I just hope the guy gets professional help. He definitely needs it.

PS May God help those poor sods who are unlucky enough to live in his neighbourhood. Hmmm I must remember to include them in my nightly prayers.



Rubbish. Just tosh.  A manufactured contrived bullshit scenario.

The bloke is just a turd.  Simple a that.




Until you've been in a theatre of war & the same environment ...

I'd say you're not fit to judge ... ya shyster.


Yeas, but his own mates in the field with him are.  And they have given damning evidence against him.  Are you going to question their fitness to judge, Train Driver?
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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #62 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 12:04pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Jun 10th, 2023 at 2:01pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 10th, 2023 at 11:27am:
BRS was not going off plan with his missions. He just (allegedly) violated the rules of engagement. As far as I am concerned, he was put in a very trying environment and succumbed to the stresses that led him to making his decisions. BRS seems to be still well in control of his faculties.


If their were any rules of engagement ... probably vague at best if they received any at all. BRS is not the only one suspected of criminal action



There ARE rules of engagement in a war zone. Ben Roberts-Smith should not have (allegedly) kicked his prisoner off the cliff and then executed the prisoner later. There is already another soldier accused of murdering a prisoner. What part of "they have surrendered" or "they pose no threat" having no weapons on them do the soldiers not understand?
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At this stage...
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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #63 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 12:19pm
 
The ADF has committed crimes.
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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.
 
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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #64 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 3:49pm
 

Hard to believe that a mere lance jack is wearing
all this shít rather than his OC.

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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #65 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:17pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 3:49pm:
Hard to believe that a mere lance jack is wearing
all this shít rather than his OC.



What is so hard to believe?  His OC did not kick a captive over a cliff and did not murder anyone.

Or are you conceding that BRS is a murdering arsehole, but claiming that his OC gave him permission to be a murdering arsehole....a killer of captive, controlled people?
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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #66 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 6:51pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 10th, 2023 at 7:08pm:
Gnads wrote on Jun 10th, 2023 at 6:59pm:
Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 10th, 2023 at 3:10pm:
If BR-S is not prosecuted for murder there is no justice in Australia.

The ADF has had its reputation badly tarnished.

Nobody with morals and ethics would voluntarily enlist in an organization that has allowed murder and other crimes against humanity to go unpunished and indeed has covered them up.



You dypstick  ... no one will enlist in an organisation that doesn't take care of it's vetrans & throws it's soldiers under a bus to cover for their own ineptitude.

You can't tarnish an already stained organisation led by clowns more intent on wokeism & diversity instead of running a Defence Force.

Like you .... none of these front bottom
s
would have your back when the chips were down.


Murder and its concealment are not an exercise in ineptitude. It is a criminal act.

Gnads' morals are as decrepit as the old codger's physical condition.


As decrepit as the vacuum between your ears ...no?
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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #67 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 6:52pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 10th, 2023 at 7:30pm:
Gnads wrote on Jun 10th, 2023 at 6:50pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 9th, 2023 at 7:04pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Jun 9th, 2023 at 6:25pm:
Bias I think you’re right. In fact the more I think about it the more I’m convinced that this isn’t going to be a great victory for the ADF at all. For starters THEY promoted him into these amazing yet extremely dangerous positions. And at a young age too. How many tours of duty did he complete? And at what level? They ie the ADF may well THINK they have their fall guy trapped in their net but I’m not so sure about that.

Robert Smith is a survivor. He has been trained to survive anything.

I see the ADF heading towards a pyrrhic victory where they will end up paying for everything in terms of legal costs including compensation for Roberts Smith.

Roberts Smith will walk away leaving the lawyers and the ADF to sort out the legal mess and we will probably be told he’s happily retired on some tropical quiet island so he can write his memoirs.

Occasionally we’ll hear of shady people strangely disappearing around the globe and I have no doubt Roberts Smith will be somehow involved in stuff like that. Hired assassins with his survival skills can make a killing (pun fully intended). Of course we’ll never know but at some stage it would not surprise me if his CV is quietly passed on to some government entity (I’m thinking CIA etc) for a little job here and there in the “waste management” industry.

I just hope the guy gets professional help. He definitely needs it.

PS May God help those poor sods who are unlucky enough to live in his neighbourhood. Hmmm I must remember to include them in my nightly prayers.



Rubbish. Just tosh.  A manufactured contrived bullshit scenario.

The bloke is just a turd.  Simple a that.




Until you've been in a theatre of war & the same environment ...

I'd say you're not fit to judge ... ya shyster.


Yeas, but his own mates in the field with him are.  And they have given damning evidence against him.  Are you going to question their fitness to judge, Train Driver?


They were never his "mates in the field".  and yes.
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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #68 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 10:25pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 12:19pm:
The ADF has committed crimes.


... and very good ones, too!
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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #69 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 11:28pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 11th, 2023 at 4:17pm:
a killer of captive, controlled people?


They fast roped down from a chopper so unlikely to have capacity to deal with captives.

Do you think he should have released them?

Called in ground troops to risk being blown up by IEDs and getting shot to remove and send to Gitmo?

Do you think any reasonable person will believe the guy hiding in Taliban tunnel wasn't Taliban?

If the Taliban caught BRS would they have executed him or followed conventions on war crimes they don't believe in and never signed?


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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #70 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 6:34am
 
Troops in battle need to stop and reasses their SWMS  and JSEA's.
They fill these out don't they?
Roll Eyes

There's mo rules in war.
Kill, or be killed.

I'm sure Roberts Smith could have killed thousands of innocent people over there.
Why didn't he?

Oh, and most of Australia got behind them all to go.
Maybe the new soldiers (males in dresses) will behave humainly, and sympathise with their enemy.
I hope they do.  Wink
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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #71 - Jun 14th, 2023 at 8:03am
 
There is some report in the SMH today about the AFP investigation breaking down over an evidence issue and a new joint task force being set up to continue investigating.  The SMH is paywalled.  Anyone got the text of that which they can post?
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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #72 - Jun 14th, 2023 at 10:25am
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 14th, 2023 at 8:03am:
There is some report in the SMH today about the AFP investigation breaking down over an evidence issue and a new joint task force being set up to continue investigating.  The SMH is paywalled.  Anyone got the text of that which they can post?


It’s probably this :

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jun/14/australian-federal-police...

As you read this article ... just remember what I told you last week Aussie : Ben Roberts Smith is a survivor. Think of him as being a cockroach...he’d survive a nuclear holocaust.

Australian federal police abandon two alleged murder investigations into Ben Roberts-Smith

The long-running investigations into murder allegations in Afghanistan will be replaced by new inquiries because of concerns about evidence

Ben Doherty - Wed 14 Jun 2023 08.26 AEST

Two key criminal investigations into alleged murders involving Ben Roberts-Smith have been abandoned by the Australian federal police because of concerns over potentially inadmissible evidence.

The long-running investigations – into murder allegations at a compound codenamed Whiskey 108 and in the southern Afghan village of Darwan – will be replaced by new inquiries undertaken by a new joint taskforce, staffed by officials from the Office of the Special Investigator and federal police investigators not previously connected to the cases.

“The joint OSI/AFP investigation – Operation Emerald – is the appropriate framework to investigate these matters,” the AFP told Guardian Australia in a statement.

“Operation Emerald is now investigating these two separate matters. The AFP is confident the Operation Emerald investigations will be undertaken as expeditiously as possible.”

The two allegations concern three killings, in which Roberts-Smith, a recipient of the Victoria Cross and Australia’s most decorated living soldier, was allegedly complicit.

The first involves the deaths of two men in the southern Afghan village of Kakarak, when a pair of unarmed men were found hiding in a secret tunnel in a bombed out compound known as Whiskey 108. One, an elderly man was allegedly executed by a junior trooper on the orders of Roberts-Smith in a so-called “blooding” incident: the other, a disabled man, was allegedly shot dead by Roberts-Smith himself after being dragged out of the compound and thrown to the ground.

The second investigation concerns an SAS mission to Darwan in 2012, where Roberts-Smith allegedly stood a handcuffed prisoner at the edge of a 10-metre cliff, before kicking him off into a dry creekbed below. The man survived the fall, but was badly injured: Roberts-Smith is alleged to have ordered a subordinate soldier to shoot him dead.

In the federal court earlier this month, Justice Anthony Besanko ruled in a defamation case that these allegations against Roberts-Smith were proven to the civil standard of the balance of probabilities, and that Roberts-Smith, giving evidence about those missions, was “not an honest and reliable witness”.

Roberts-Smith has never been criminally charged, and maintains his innocence.

At issue is the legal principle of “use immunity”.

The five-year AFP investigation into the two incidents – involving three alleged unlawful killings – has been discontinued, as first reported by Nine newspapers, because of concerns over the use of evidence that had been gathered under the coercive powers of the Brereton inquiry, the investigation by the inspector general of the Australian defence force into allegations of Australian war crimes committed in Afghanistan.

Some of the information obtained in the Brereton inquiry was obtained through the use of powers which compel individuals to attend hearings – coercive powers – or to provide information or documents – coercive material.

Derivative and direct “use immunity” prevents coercive material being used directly or indirectly against those individuals who provided the information, but not against others who may be under investigation.

During the Brereton inquiry – which ran from 2016 to 2020 – the chief of the defence force referred the two allegations to the AFP for criminal investigation.

“When these matters were referred to the AFP for investigation, the AFP sought legal and other expert advice given the complexity of the allegations, the location and the dates the alleged offences occurred,” a spokesperson for the AFP said.

“The AFP relied on this advice to manage the legal risks known at the time, including how to use the information referred from the inquiry for a criminal investigation, noting some of the information was obtained through the use of powers which compel individuals to attend hearings (coercive powers) and/or provide information or documents (coercive material).”

The AFP submitted briefs of evidence in the two matters to the commonwealth director of public prosecutions (CDPP) in 2020 and 2022.

In March this year, the CDPP informed the AFP it had decided not to prosecute the two war crimes offences on the evidence provided.

Preparing a new brief of evidence will now be the responsibility of Operation Emerald, a joint taskforce of the Office of the Special Investigator and the AFP.


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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #73 - Jun 14th, 2023 at 10:35am
 
From the previous article : At issue is the legal principle of “use immunity”.

Let’s take a closer look at Use Immunity (Wiki google helps here)

Use immunity and transactional immunity: What is the difference?


You know something about a crime — and the prosecutor wants you to testify in court. Your concern, however, is that you may not exactly have “clean hands.” You’re worried that what you say could eventually come back to haunt you.

In situations like these, the word “immunity” may get tossed around, but you need to make sure you understand exactly what type of immunity is being offered.

What is use immunity?

This is a narrow form of immunity that prohibits prosecutors from using any of your testimony in court — or any evidence that may have been derived from that testimony — against you.

In theory, it’s designed to protect you just as much as not testifying at all. However, there’s a catch: You can still be prosecuted for any crimes you mention as long as the prosecutor comes by their evidence another way.

For example, maybe you got mixed up in a robbery that turned into a homicide. You testify against the ringleader of the gang involved. Your testimony can’t be used  — but if video evidence turns up that shows you on the scene during the incident, that evidence can be part of the prosecution’s case against you.

What is transactional immunity?

This is the kind of immunity that most people think of when they hear that the prosecutor is offering immunity in exchange for their testimony.

With transactional immunity, you’re protected from charges related to your immunized testimony.

For example, maybe you played a role in luring the robbery victim mentioned above to the spot where they were ultimately killed. You could fully testify to your part in the scheme and remain immune from prosecution — even if the prosecutor later finds independent evidence of your involvement.


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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Re: Good ol' Ben Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #74 - Mar 31st, 2024 at 3:31pm
 
Advertising legend John Singleton has taken out a full page newspaper advertisement in support of Ben Roberts-Smith.

Under the heading “An apology to Ben Roberts-Smith. From a coward” Mr Singleton lauded the Victoria Cross winner’s “courage, strength, commitment,” which was published on page five of Saturday’s Weekend Australian.

Mr Singleton praised Mr Roberts-Smith’s bravery, while admitting that he had himself “dodged Vietnam”.

“Our vets risked their lives for us. Were we there?” Mr Singleton wrote underneath a picture of Mr Roberts-Smith on duty in Afghanistan.


...

Good on him. And BRS. And Kerry Stokes.
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