Australian Politics Forum - expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.

Jovial Monk Gold Member Online Dogs not cats! Posts: 50472 Gender:	Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly. Reply #45 - May 21^st, 2023 at 7:21am Remember the Sudetenland and Hitler’s “last territorial demand in Europe.”
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issuevoter

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #46 - May 21^st, 2023 at 8:22am

Yes, never give in to bullies. However, there are those who admire them. It is obvious that some people on this forum have that picture of a bare-chested Putin on their wall. Considering our open and democratic society, it is disgusting that any Australian would not acknowledge the criminal nature of the Russian police state. No doubt they will support the invasion of Taiwan.

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Bobby.

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #47 - May 21^st, 2023 at 9:53am

issuevoter wrote on May 20^th, 2023 at 10:49pm:

"Russia's deputy foreign minister has warned Western countries of “enormous risks for themselves" if Ukraine is provided with F-16 fighter jets, Russian state media TASS reported Saturday."

The Muscovites are scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to rhetoric. It translates as: "You better not do that or we will get really really mad!"

It seems to indicate they fear escalation more than NATO, and with good reason. They cannot afford another conventional war front, and apart from a nuclear attack on Ukraine or the EU, they are out of options.

The F16 is a stone age jet fighter - it will hardly change anything:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon

First flight

20 January 1974; 49 years ago (unplanned)
2 February 1974; 49 years ago (official)

Introduction 17 August 1978; 44 years ago

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JC Denton

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #48 - May 21^st, 2023 at 9:56am

Quote:

the ukrainians are incredibly brave and putin is an incredible bully but when mike tyson is in a fist fight, down in the dirt with muhatma ghandi, i dont care that ghandi is "morally superior: because tysons fists are "physcially superior" and he is going to win.

ukraine probably should have gotten its clock cleaned on that whole war against ethnic russians in the donbass because this was going to be the inevitable result

they had multiple opportunities to stop being c v n t s

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51365 At my desk.	Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly. Reply #49 - May 21^st, 2023 at 10:02am Quote: they had multiple opportunities to stop being c v n t s What did they do wrong?
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JC Denton

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #50 - May 21^st, 2023 at 10:08am

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 10:02am:

Quote:

they had multiple opportunities to stop being c v n t s

What did they do wrong?

constant shelling of civilians in donetsk city for years

statements by the former ukrainian president that ethnic russians will "live in basements" to that effect summarise a lot of elite ukrainian sentiment to the countries ethnic russian population

the burning down of the odessa trade hall which killed a bunch of ethnic russians

i know you're just going to claim "durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr this is all propaganda" (some of it is exaggerated, but a lot of it is actually true) but what they were doing for years was obviously highly provocative and war between russia and ukraine was inevitable, even if putin hadn't started it ukraine's ultra-nationalist irredentist ideology meant they were going to make a play for crimea at some point

now they will have to eat sh 1t as their country becomes a bombed out husk for falling for the broken siren song of western enticement, phony promises (or deluded aspirations) to be a NATO/EU member, etc

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #51 - May 21^st, 2023 at 10:14am

Quote:

statements by the former ukrainian president that ethnic russians will "live in basements" to that effect summarise a lot of elite ukrainian sentiment to the countries ethnic russian population

Isn't he the one they got rid of because he established closer ties with Russia instead of signing a FTA with the EU?

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JC Denton

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #52 - May 21^st, 2023 at 10:22am

i might have got that mixed up but yes

irrelevant though, given what i've summarised still remains true

ukraine has acted pretty stupidly/recklessly and this was all pretty avoidable

whether they can win (and the only way they can 'win' is affecting some sort of political negotiation that is in their favour; their strategy is fairly similar to the confederacy's in the american civil war) their country is destined for s h i t hole status regardless

why so many of these ukrainian men are willing to throw away their lives for something this retarded never ceases to amaze me, but it gives you some indication of how powerful memeplexes like ultranationalism can be in getting people to do stupid things

"nEvEr gIvE iNtO bUlLiEs" ~ man who isnt going to die sitting behind his desk in australia

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #53 - May 21^st, 2023 at 11:02am

JC Denton wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 10:22am:

why so many of these ukrainian men are willing to throw away their lives for something this retarded never ceases to amaze me, but it gives you some indication of how powerful memeplexes like ultranationalism can be in getting people to do stupid things

"nEvEr gIvE iNtO bUlLiEs" ~ man who isnt going to die sitting behind his desk in australia

If you were the Australian PM. would you surrender Australian territory to an aggressor without a fight?

Would you not ask allies to assist in resisting an invader?

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issuevoter

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #54 - May 21^st, 2023 at 11:23am

JC Denton wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 10:22am:

i might have got that mixed up but yes

irrelevant though, given what i've summarised still remains true

ukraine has acted pretty stupidly/recklessly and this was all pretty avoidable

whether they can win (and the only way they can 'win' is affecting some sort of political negotiation that is in their favour; their strategy is fairly similar to the confederacy's in the american civil war) their country is destined for s h i t hole status regardless

why so many of these ukrainian men are willing to throw away their lives for something this retarded never ceases to amaze me, but it gives you some indication of how powerful memeplexes like ultranationalism can be in getting people to do stupid things

"nEvEr gIvE iNtO bUlLiEs" ~ man who isnt going to die sitting behind his desk in australia

Wait a second. No one is going to let that statement go by. You say giving up your nukes in good faith, on the promise of security, is somehow stupid? It was perfectly reasonable, given that the USSR had just collapsed and the Republics looked like becoming open and democratic. Ukraine, in one form or another, has been tyranised by Moscow since Czarist times. The reason the ex-president of Ukraine has anything to say on the matter is because he got kicked out after shooting his citizens in the street.

"Reckless?" You seem to think Ukraine has some kind of choice. They don't, other than letting Putin take over, which is how this war started. Now, wanna talk "Stupid?" NATO as threat to Moscow is utter rubbish, unless Putin's cabal do something infinitely stupid, and that is what they are famous for. Unless you didn't notice, NATO is stronger for his belligerent attitude.

You think you know about Ukraine and Moscow? Read Conrad's memoirs. He was born there, and spent his early childhood in a Russian prison in Siberia because his parents were patriots. You fit right in at Ratbag central. Are you going to back China when they invade Taiwan?

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Bobby.

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #55 - May 21^st, 2023 at 11:27am

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 11:02am:

JC Denton wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 10:22am:

why so many of these ukrainian men are willing to throw away their lives for something this retarded never ceases to amaze me, but it gives you some indication of how powerful memeplexes like ultranationalism can be in getting people to do stupid things

"nEvEr gIvE iNtO bUlLiEs" ~ man who isnt going to die sitting behind his desk in australia

If you were the Australian PM. would you surrender Australian territory to an aggressor without a fight?

Would you not ask allies to assist in resisting an invader?

Good point.

And what would we do if NZ was invaded by China?
NZ doesn't even have a single fighter jet - they're defenseless.
It could be invaded in about 2 days by a superpower like China -
with the largest navy in the world.

If Australia gets attacked by China - it would be in Darwin.
I doubt our defence bases there would last 2 hours after
Chinese cruise missile attacks.

Australia and NZ are sitting ducks and so are all the Pacific islands.

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freediver

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #56 - May 21^st, 2023 at 11:56am

JC Denton wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 10:22am:

i might have got that mixed up but yes

irrelevant though, given what i've summarised still remains true

ukraine has acted pretty stupidly/recklessly and this was all pretty avoidable

How have they acted recklessly? Your summary is meaningless if you keep getting your details mixed up.

Quote:

whether they can win (and the only way they can 'win' is affecting some sort of political negotiation that is in their favour; their strategy is fairly similar to the confederacy's in the american civil war) their country is destined for s h i t hole status regardless

why so many of these ukrainian men are willing to throw away their lives for something this retarded never ceases to amaze me, but it gives you some indication of how powerful memeplexes like ultranationalism can be in getting people to do stupid things

"nEvEr gIvE iNtO bUlLiEs" ~ man who isnt going to die sitting behind his desk in australia

Ukraine is a fairly liberal democracy. Russia is returning to authoritarianism. If Ukraine loses, it would be a loss for democracy and freedom. Those are worth fighting for.

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Bobby.

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #57 - May 21^st, 2023 at 12:02pm

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 11:56am:

Ukraine is a fairly liberal democracy. Russia is returning to authoritarianism. If Ukraine loses, it would be a loss for democracy and freedom. Those are worth fighting for.

yet - everyone does business with countries like Saudi Arabia - a dictatorship -
which cuts peoples heads off with swords for blasphemy -
the Yanks even sell them weapons and in 1991 they
went to war to protect Saudi Arabia from Saddam.

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #58 - May 21^st, 2023 at 12:06pm

Bobby. wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 12:02pm:

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 11:56am:

Ukraine is a fairly liberal democracy. Russia is returning to authoritarianism. If Ukraine loses, it would be a loss for democracy and freedom. Those are worth fighting for.

yet - everyone does business with countries like Saudi Arabia - a dictatorship -
which cuts peoples heads off with swords for blasphemy -
the Yanks even sell them weapons and in 1991 they
went to war to protect Saudi Arabia from Saddam.

What is your point Bobby?

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Jasin

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #59 - May 21^st, 2023 at 12:08pm

Bobby. wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 11:27am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 11:02am:

JC Denton wrote on May 21^st, 2023 at 10:22am:

why so many of these ukrainian men are willing to throw away their lives for something this retarded never ceases to amaze me, but it gives you some indication of how powerful memeplexes like ultranationalism can be in getting people to do stupid things

"nEvEr gIvE iNtO bUlLiEs" ~ man who isnt going to die sitting behind his desk in australia

If you were the Australian PM. would you surrender Australian territory to an aggressor without a fight?

Would you not ask allies to assist in resisting an invader?

Good point.

And what would we do if NZ was invaded by China?
NZ doesn't even have a single fighter jet - they're defenseless.
It could be invaded in about 2 days by a superpower like China -
with the largest navy in the world.

If Australia gets attacked by China - it would be in Darwin.
I doubt our defence bases there would last 2 hours after
Chinese cruise missile attacks.

Australia and NZ are sitting ducks and so are all the Pacific islands.

Remember, despite Australia providing China with the resources to build their War Machine - their ships, planes and tanks are all 'Made in China', so they won't last long and it will be cheaper for them to build a new one, rather than try and fix them.
China has no intention of invading New Zealand at all. Even if it comes under the ANZAC bridge with Australia.
New Zealand is full of their Yellow cousins called Maori, so in essence, the country is already occupied by the Yellow Man.
As is the rest of Polynesia. Their colonisation is complete there.
Australia on the other hand, being the 51st State of the USA under the Prime Ministers - will be bombarded a bit from a safe distance. But I very much doubt the Chinese will try to land on Australian shores as they are afraid of Crocodiles, Spiders and Snakes.

Don't forget that the Philippines and Papua New Guinea have already had 'alliance' talks which unofficially included Micronesia, East Timor and a few others in the above region in regards to both China and 'Moslem' Indonesia.
The Philippines won't be a walkover for China and if Melanesia and the Balinese and Indigenous Indonesians attack the Indo Moslems to liberate Indonesia and Irian Jaya. Chances are there will be many Australians both Military and Mercenary joining in as well.
It wouldn't be hard, all you have to do is bomb the crap out of an island before even needing to send in troops.

I do believe that Australian cities will be bombed and I reckon Sydney is the city to go up in smoke from a Nuke and turn a harbour into a 'Bay'.

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