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expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly. (Read 11468 times)
JC Denton
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #315 - May 28th, 2023 at 7:59pm
 
Quote:
Prior to Zalensky, Ukraine was managed by Kremlin-appointed kleptocrats, who's only job was to manage the skim from the gas. Kiev was the base for global crime syndicates, and corruption was rife. Ukraine was Putin's wild west.

The people had their say. Yanukovych was ousted in 2013 for reneging on a commitment to joining the EU. This led to the Euromaidan uprising, Putin's annexation of Crimea, and finally, the first fair election since the fall of the Soviet Union in 2019.

Zalensky's unwillingness to bend to Putin saw the invasion of 2022. From now on, Ukraine was not willing to play the role of so many other Russian satelite puppet regimes. Ukraine has a 43 million population and huge mineral wealth - why should it?

If a Ukrainian leader is going to do the right thing by Ukrainians, turning West is a no brainer. Economically sure, but politically: any Ukrainian prez who doesn't commit to European integration will simply be deposed, if not assassinated. Ukrainians want to be nice, safe, happy Euros. Why wouldn't they?

Putin puppets like Alexander Lukashenko and Ramzan Katyrov are now few and far between. Nearly all of the former Soviet states want to be Western-style democracies. It's why, after all, the iron curtain came down in the first place. Putin's dream of a Russia Mir is over - no one shares it.

Putin can only achieve influence outside Russia through kleptocracy, the oligarchs and the Russian Mafia. It's hardly a romantic vision. His invasion of Ukraine has now shown the rest that the emperor was wearing no clothes.

The Russian military is no longer capable of a good old Soviet invasion. It's certainly not capable of a US-style shock and awe assault on a recalcitrant state, which was the aim in Ukraine. Muscle was Putin's last card. He no longer has this, and everybody who counts in Russia knows it. All the states in Russia's orbit - the Russia Mir - are now looking Westward, or signing up to Xi's Belt and Road.

By invading Ukraine, Putin has single-handedly destroyed the Russian dream.


what the bugger are you talking about? there were very few real soviet 'invasions' besides the invasion of afghanistan, which failed just like america's invasion of afghanistan failed. there was no initial "shock and awe" in ukraine, the force russia committed into the country was small, power infrastructure was not targeted (like in iraq), and initially this was better understood as a means of creating prescence and space and triggering a negotiation (following the georgian example in 2008-2009) which apparently almost succeeded, if boris johnson had (allegedly) not sabotaged the proceedings sometime in march or april 2022.

the police force alone in kiev was larger than the force russia had around the capital; if you really think a force of 50,000 or so was intended to capture a metropolitan area of 3-4 million you've been reading different military text books than i have. after it was clear ukraine wasn't going to negotiate for whatever reason, the front around kiev was (rightfully) evacuated, because there was no chance of capturing that city with the quantity of men submitted.


much of what russia is doing or has been doing can be understood probably as

1) not disrupting ordinary life domestically too much (hence the recalcitrance to transition to  some degree of war economy, which ukraine has 100% at this point on top of NATO largesee - something i don't agree with btw)

2) not wanting to disrupt relations with its important trading partners such as india, china, etc, hence the relative reluctance (certainly compared to america) to initially target civilian infrastructure, though we have seen increasing willingness to degrade ukrainian AA resources as politically it has become more expedient and percieved politically viable to do so

you have clearly overestimated the impact of the sanctions, exaggerated and created a phony/dishonest narrative of russia's global isolation,  parroted strawman after strawman and generally are just a bore to talk to
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« Last Edit: May 28th, 2023 at 8:12pm by JC Denton »  
 
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Bobby.
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #316 - May 28th, 2023 at 8:03pm
 
Karnal wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 7:55pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 6:08pm:
Karnal wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 5:59pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 5:18pm:
Karnal wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 4:37pm:
A fascinating piece of Thatcherite propaganda, Bobby.

They explained the WWII home front situation so well, then paste the Tory spin in at the end.

Ever get the feeling you've been propagated?




Nothing to do with Thatcher.

Did you really spend over 2 hours watching it? -
of course not.

forgiven

namaste


Of course. Good doco. Watch the last line.

Thatcher was the British prime minister from 1979 to 1990, dear.



You only got to watch that doco cause of me -
that's the only reason.


True. Thank you.

And we invite you to read between the lines of your docos. Read the message.

Your doco is not about British military production circa WWII, it's about free trade, privatisation and managers taking hold of a national production putsch. It's a highly ideological doco.

I'm currently reading up on whether Britain got out of the great depression through trade liberalisation, tax cuts and the government doing nothing.

So far, that's not looking too true.

You?



I don't know the answer to that.
I know that the USA got rich out of WW2.
Britain was left bankrupt.
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Karnal
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #317 - May 28th, 2023 at 8:15pm
 
aquascoot wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 6:51pm:
Karnal wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 6:00pm:
aquascoot wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 5:23pm:
Karnal wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 4:59pm:
Quote:
so keep selling your european model of paradise,  people arent buying,
the italians have gone back to a fundamentalist catholic PM who is booting out all the woke wankers.

france as well

the dutch farmers are in revolt.


the proud nationalists are going to prevail

they have the resources.

america, my friend is 31 trillion in debt and teetering on the edge of defaulting
ever get the feeling you are kidding yourself


You sound hurt and unsure. An existential moment, is it?

We all get them, dear. It's how you bounce out of bed that counts.

Watch Bobby's video. Mother England was successful because she was globally integrated. It's how she won the war and the peace.

One can't win war or peace without friends. This is why Mother England is failing today. She withdrew from the biggest trading block in the world. Bobby's Tory doco makers back in the 1980s would have been appalled, but what to do?

Britain left the EU with the same regulations it had before. It now has higher immigration than before, and not from Europe, but the Middle East and South Asia.

Brexit is the single biggest disaster Britain has faced since WWII. Lowest economic growth in the G7,  and without markets for trade - and skilled labour - no way back up.

Nations and economies outlive us. Putin's Russia will die with Putin, along with the plan for a Russian Ukraine. Ukrainians now wholeheartedly turn to the West. In the next 20 years, they should be full members of the EU.

Ukraine will then have opportunities Mother England would kill for now.



lucky vlad has so many friends


Just so. Why do you think they've tried to hide him on the right?




. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

try again


When was your photo taken, dear?

I'm curious.
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Karnal
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #318 - May 28th, 2023 at 8:21pm
 
Quote:
what the bugger are you talking about? there were very few real soviet 'invasions' besides the invasion of afghanistan,


Oh? The Poles, Czechs, Hungarians and poor old East Germans might beg to differ, dear.

Quite a few white Russians may care to differ too. There was a civil war, after all.

They don't count much. Stalin saw to them, eh?
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Karnal
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #319 - May 28th, 2023 at 8:26pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 8:03pm:
Karnal wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 7:55pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 6:08pm:
Karnal wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 5:59pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 5:18pm:
Karnal wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 4:37pm:
A fascinating piece of Thatcherite propaganda, Bobby.

They explained the WWII home front situation so well, then paste the Tory spin in at the end.

Ever get the feeling you've been propagated?




Nothing to do with Thatcher.

Did you really spend over 2 hours watching it? -
of course not.

forgiven

namaste


Of course. Good doco. Watch the last line.

Thatcher was the British prime minister from 1979 to 1990, dear.



You only got to watch that doco cause of me -
that's the only reason.


True. Thank you.

And we invite you to read between the lines of your docos. Read the message.

Your doco is not about British military production circa WWII, it's about free trade, privatisation and managers taking hold of a national production putsch. It's a highly ideological doco.

I'm currently reading up on whether Britain got out of the great depression through trade liberalisation, tax cuts and the government doing nothing.

So far, that's not looking too true.

You?



I don't know the answer to that.
I know that the USA got rich out of WW2.
Britain was left bankrupt.


Just so. Most of occupied Europe's gold was sent to Fort Knox.

They sold most of that gold to fund the Vietnam War, so they decided to have a floating dollar instead.

Britain did that in 1933, so there is some truth to your doco.

Read the message, Bobby. Follow the money.
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Bobby.
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #320 - May 28th, 2023 at 8:34pm
 
Karnal wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 8:26pm:
Just so. Most of occupied Europe's gold was sent to Fort Knox.

They sold most of that gold to fund the Vietnam War, so they decided to have a floating dollar instead.

Britain did that in 1933, so there is some truth to your doco.

Read the message, Bobby. Follow the money.



Yes and Angela wasn't allowed to see Germany's gold -
maybe it just wasn't there?
Gold has always been run by Govt. criminals.
Some say there is 100 times more 'paper gold' than real gold.
(the gold has been sold 100 times over and doesn't really exist)
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Bobby.
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #321 - May 28th, 2023 at 8:35pm
 
Chess Legend And Putin Critic Garry Kasparov On Why Russia Will Lose In Ukraine



My thoughts:

Garry didn't explain the end game very well.
What if Russia is kicked out of Ukraine but they remain on the border
firing artillery shells into Ukraine every day?
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JC Denton
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #322 - May 28th, 2023 at 8:51pm
 
Karnal wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 8:21pm:
Quote:
what the bugger are you talking about? there were very few real soviet 'invasions' besides the invasion of afghanistan,


Oh? The Poles, Czechs, Hungarians and poor old East Germans might beg to differ, dear.

Quite a few white Russians may care to differ too. There was a civil war, after all.

They don't count much. Stalin saw to them, eh?


yeah mate, you know that's not what i meant, it's like holding up the invasion of georgia in 08-09 as a 'real war', those were capitulations, not actual wars. you might  as well be using the georgian icnident as an counter-example of how the russian army actually does have the same capacity as the soviets did if you want to play that game. the clear plan A here in ukraine was it for to be another event like that, but now it's transisitioned into plan B, a war of attrition as opposed to a rapid manouver based operation to trigger a negotition/capitulation.

no one thinks the armed forces of the russian federation are equivalent to the soviet army, except people trying to construct strawmen arguments. "hahahaha superpower my ass" yeah like uhhh no one thinks the RF is a superpower, no one who isn't an idiot anyway. the soviets spent 10-20% of GDP on their military, had 80% of the industrial capacity (with much of that industrial capacity concentrated in stuff that facilitaes a large and effective military) of the united states in 1980, were a classically marxist-leninst command economy that could concentrate resources where-ever the state wanted it to, was two times as large as the russian federation, etc. it's almost like --- wait for it --- they weren't the same country or something  Shocked Shocked Shocked and had completely different governments with different values and geopolitical objectives  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

might as well be saying the republic of italy is the roman empire
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #323 - May 28th, 2023 at 9:36pm
 
Ukraine keeps threatening an offensive that never comes.

They don't have the resources to defend much longer let alone attack.

The current spate of attacks inside Russia are a theatrical diversion to divert attention from the poor state of the Ukrainian military which keeps threatening an offensive and keeps claiming to have shot down all incoming Russian missiles, but buildings and weapons depots keep getting blown up by invisible mysterious forces which cannot be the shot-down Russian missiles.

Ukraine would have been in a better condition if they had surrendered and negotiated terms instead of fighting to the last Ukrainian while Uncle Sam urges them to get up and fight.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #324 - May 28th, 2023 at 9:43pm
 
JC Denton wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 8:51pm:
Karnal wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 8:21pm:
Quote:
what the bugger are you talking about? there were very few real soviet 'invasions' besides the invasion of afghanistan,


Oh? The Poles, Czechs, Hungarians and poor old East Germans might beg to differ, dear.

Quite a few white Russians may care to differ too. There was a civil war, after all.

They don't count much. Stalin saw to them, eh?


yeah mate, you know that's not what i meant, it's like holding up the invasion of georgia in 08-09 as a 'real war', those were capitulations, not actual wars. you might  as well be using the georgian icnident as an counter-example of how the russian army actually does have the same capacity as the soviets did if you want to play that game. the clear plan A here in ukraine was it for to be another event like that, but now it's transisitioned into plan B, a war of attrition as opposed to a rapid manouver based operation to trigger a negotition/capitulation.

no one thinks the armed forces of the russian federation are equivalent to the soviet army, except people trying to construct strawmen arguments. "hahahaha superpower my ass" yeah like uhhh no one thinks the RF is a superpower, no one who isn't an idiot anyway. the soviets spent 10-20% of GDP on their military, had 80% of the industrial capacity (with much of that industrial capacity concentrated in stuff that facilitaes a large and effective military) of the united states in 1980, were a classically marxist-leninst command economy that could concentrate resources where-ever the state wanted it to, was two times as large as the russian federation, etc. it's almost like --- wait for it --- they weren't the same country or something  Shocked Shocked Shocked and had completely different governments with different values and geopolitical objectives  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

might as well be saying the republic of italy is the roman empire

The Soviet Union was bankrupt when Gorbachev came to power.

The first wave of the 2022 Russian invasion was based on intel received from Russian oligarchs who'd been given funds to establish pro-Russian militant groups in Ukraine, that would rise up and assist in the overthrow of the Ukrainian government when the Russian army entered the country.

The oligarchs stole the money but reported to the Kremlin that they had established a strong pro-Russian underground capable of assisting the Russian military in its objectives. None of them thought Putin would actually order an invasion anyway, so stealing the funds seemed like a good idea at the time.
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Bobby.
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #325 - May 28th, 2023 at 9:47pm
 
A further doco of 2 hours 48 minutes.
How factories win wars.


The American Workers That Helped The US Dominate WW2 | War Factories


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Laugh till you cry
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #326 - May 28th, 2023 at 9:51pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 9:47pm:
A further doco of 2 hours 48 minutes.
How factories win wars.


The American Workers That Helped The US Dominate WW2 | War Factories


[media https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T0xpD7J8nA[/media]


If factories win wars as you say, China must be winning against the USA by square terametres of factories.
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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.
 
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Gordon
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #327 - May 28th, 2023 at 9:54pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
Ukraine keeps threatening an offensive that never comes.

They don't have the resources to defend much longer let alone attack.

The current spate of attacks inside Russia are a theatrical diversion to divert attention from the poor state of the Ukrainian military which keeps threatening an offensive and keeps claiming to have shot down all incoming Russian missiles, but buildings and weapons depots keep getting blown up by invisible mysterious forces which cannot be the shot-down Russian missiles.

Ukraine would have been in a better condition if they had surrendered and negotiated terms instead of fighting to the last Ukrainian while Uncle Sam urges them to get up and fight.


When anyone in the USA suggests exactly this, or points out the red lines that have been crossed in respect to NATO encroachment on Russia (such as the the USA would never tolerate) or the 2014 coup in Ukraine, they're called a Russian troll/shill.

Interesting how I find myself agreeing this.
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #328 - May 28th, 2023 at 9:56pm
 
Gordon wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 9:54pm:
Laugh till you cry wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
Ukraine keeps threatening an offensive that never comes.

They don't have the resources to defend much longer let alone attack.

The current spate of attacks inside Russia are a theatrical diversion to divert attention from the poor state of the Ukrainian military which keeps threatening an offensive and keeps claiming to have shot down all incoming Russian missiles, but buildings and weapons depots keep getting blown up by invisible mysterious forces which cannot be the shot-down Russian missiles.

Ukraine would have been in a better condition if they had surrendered and negotiated terms instead of fighting to the last Ukrainian while Uncle Sam urges them to get up and fight.


When anyone in the USA suggests exactly this, or points out the red lines that have been crossed in respect to NATO encroachment on Russia (such as the the USA would never tolerate) or the 2014 coup in Ukraine, they're called a Russian troll/shill.

Interesting how I find myself agreeing this.


It's your contrariness, that must be genetic.

Every time you see or hear text you think what would I do behind the Bondi sheds?
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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.
 
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Gordon
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #329 - May 28th, 2023 at 10:04pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 9:56pm:
Gordon wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 9:54pm:
Laugh till you cry wrote on May 28th, 2023 at 9:36pm:
Ukraine keeps threatening an offensive that never comes.

They don't have the resources to defend much longer let alone attack.

The current spate of attacks inside Russia are a theatrical diversion to divert attention from the poor state of the Ukrainian military which keeps threatening an offensive and keeps claiming to have shot down all incoming Russian missiles, but buildings and weapons depots keep getting blown up by invisible mysterious forces which cannot be the shot-down Russian missiles.

Ukraine would have been in a better condition if they had surrendered and negotiated terms instead of fighting to the last Ukrainian while Uncle Sam urges them to get up and fight.


When anyone in the USA suggests exactly this, or points out the red lines that have been crossed in respect to NATO encroachment on Russia (such as the the USA would never tolerate) or the 2014 coup in Ukraine, they're called a Russian troll/shill.

Interesting how I find myself agreeing this.


It's your contrariness, that must be genetic.

Every time you see or hear text you think what would I do behind the Bondi sheds?


Sheds? You seem to know something I don't. You always mention changing changing sheds. Are you an actual sex offender?
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IBI
 
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