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expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly. (Read 11542 times)
aquascoot
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #240 - May 26th, 2023 at 7:07am
 
Bobby. wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 5:39am:
freediver wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 6:55pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 2:41pm:
Aqua,
Quote:
bobby

this is what i mean about "you cant trust the mainstream media"

maria knight churns out an article every 3 days about how wonderful ukraine is doing.

she is like goebels in berlin in 1945 churning out articles about how the russians are being slaughtered in the streets of berlin.

its just propaganda my friend



The first casualty of war is the truth.


Didn't you once tell me that it is a journalist's job to repeat what they read online,
and it is everyone else's job to figure out whether it is true?



I think I did.
I mostly link the readers here to quality websites such as the BBC and CNN.
I take no responsibility if those sites are wrong -
which sometimes they - are but it's very rare.

I am a messenger and also a martyr for the truth online.

namaste


impossible to know what the truth is nowadays bobby.

with chat  gpt and deep fakes, soon the internet will just feed you stories based on the "agenda" of those with the most $$$$$ to control the flow of information.

you can try to get a good spectrum by "steel manning" your opponents.

i should try to find 10 things i like about biden and zelensky
mattyfisk should try to find 10 things he likes about trump and putin.

very few people will genuinely do that work

people have a desire not to waste energy on things they dont like.

its called "following the path of least resistance"

matty fisk and gweggy follow this path (the path of the inferior man)

if you want to build the strength to not just do whats easy, you have to train yourself to do whats hard.

heres a couple of things you can do to build your mental strength

1.  ice baths and cold immersions
2 intermittent fasting (one day a week of no food from 6 am to 6 pm
3  3 x 3 minutes of maximal sprints every second day ( i do mine up my driveway)
4  gratitude training (kneeling before your fridge)
5 no gossiping , triangulating or poo talking on any person in your social sphere
6 join a hard volunteer organisation (ses, bush fire brigade etc)

if you can train yourself to do hard things you wont be the sort of weak pussy who is too lazy to look at both sides of the arguement

sure putin is a bad man but he is totally understandable
sure zelensky has some good points but he is also a disaster for many of his citizens

the media wont tell you that because people dont want the healthy brocholli type news
they want the juicy sugary spicy junk food type stories.

you are better then that
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Bobby.
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #241 - May 26th, 2023 at 7:15am
 
Dear Aqua,
more people need to follow your advice.
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JC Denton
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #242 - May 26th, 2023 at 8:43am
 
Quote:
Mattyfisk posted

Not just humiliated, dear, thoroughly rogered.

A so-called superpower invades its nearest neighbour and gets forced back to the fringes.

Then, piece by piece, forced into retreat from that. Banished from the world, up for crimes against humanity, GDP growth back to 1990s levels, and an entire generation forced into the meatgrinder - or exile.

One thing we know, Aquascoot, you sure can pick the losing side.

Ever get the feeling you've been plundered?


wot?

on the GDP thing, how is that true? isn't the russian federation's gdp projected to grow this year more than most european countries?

who called the russian federation a superpower? you are conflating it with the soviet union which is not the same thing. why do so few people understand the 'superpower' concept

banished from the world? you mean a few western countries - most of the world is located in south and east asia, latin america and africa, and the rf is certainly not 'banished' from those places. india and china a piece are about a third of the world's population - the indian govt is ambivalent towards the russian federation, with some people there telling me the average indian person supports it somewhat (go look at what the hindustani times publishes on its yt channel), same is true in china. it's one of the reasons these allegedly devastating sanctions have had such a minimal impact.

an entire generation? the force the russians are deploying in ukraine is relatively small -- way too small in my opinion -- and even of the 300,000 recently mobilised, most are still being held in reserve. this is pure projection, it's the ukrainians sacrificing most of their young male population.

what is this absolute bullsh1t karnal lol
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« Last Edit: May 26th, 2023 at 8:52am by JC Denton »  
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #243 - May 26th, 2023 at 9:56am
 
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 7:07am:
impossible to know what the truth is nowadays


How has it ever been possible to know truth - necessarily free of information deficit, cultural/moral proscriptions or personal bias?

It's the 'unknown-unknowns' that form the unbridgable abyss between the truth-seeker and the truth.

But you're not arguing for what's true as much as you're arguing for what's best.

There's the true (whatever that is) and then there's the good.
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aquascoot
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #244 - May 26th, 2023 at 11:14am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 9:56am:
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 7:07am:
impossible to know what the truth is nowadays


How has it ever been possible to know truth - necessarily free of information deficit, cultural/moral proscriptions or personal bias?

It's the 'unknown-unknowns' that form the unbridgable abyss between the truth-seeker and the truth.

But you're not arguing for what's true as much as you're arguing for what's best.

There's the true (whatever that is) and then there's the good.



I'm stealing this from Jordan Peterson
But he had some good things to say about the influence of the American pragmatists on the constitution

You basically run with a idea
See if it works
And if it does you can assume it is true enough

This would be one of my issues with the big food industry
The social media platforms
The pharmaceutical industry

We have run the experiment
And people are in general fatter
More mentally unhealthy
Having their healthspan expire two decades earlier than their lifespan
When this never used to be the case

So rather than get lost in the weeds
I think we can look at these three industries and say
They are not true

We could then looked at the military industrial complex
The invasions of Iraq Afghanistan
Vietnam Libya
And see whether they produced the desired results
Inasmuch as they don't they are also untruthful enterprises
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aquascoot
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #245 - May 26th, 2023 at 11:18am
 
JC Denton wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 8:43am:
Quote:
Mattyfisk posted

Not just humiliated, dear, thoroughly rogered.

A so-called superpower invades its nearest neighbour and gets forced back to the fringes.

Then, piece by piece, forced into retreat from that. Banished from the world, up for crimes against humanity, GDP growth back to 1990s levels, and an entire generation forced into the meatgrinder - or exile.

One thing we know, Aquascoot, you sure can pick the losing side.

Ever get the feeling you've been plundered?


wot?

on the GDP thing, how is that true? isn't the russian federation's gdp projected to grow this year more than most european countries?

who called the russian federation a superpower? you are conflating it with the soviet union which is not the same thing. why do so few people understand the 'superpower' concept

banished from the world? you mean a few western countries - most of the world is located in south and east asia, latin america and africa, and the rf is certainly not 'banished' from those places. india and china a piece are about a third of the world's population - the indian govt is ambivalent towards the russian federation, with some people there telling me the average indian person supports it somewhat (go look at what the hindustani times publishes on its yt channel), same is true in china. it's one of the reasons these allegedly devastating sanctions have had such a minimal impact.

an entire generation? the force the russians are deploying in ukraine is relatively small -- way too small in my opinion -- and even of the 300,000 recently mobilised, most are still being held in reserve. this is pure projection, it's the ukrainians sacrificing most of their young male population.

what is this absolute bullsh1t karnal lol



Carmel and many like him are practising more or a religion
Then an honest assessment

I think there is really nothing that Putin or trump could do
That would alter their mind about Putin or trump
That sort of concrete thinking is in no way different from a fundamentalist religious perspective

The left are very prone to this sort of analysis

The right not so much
If you run a small business or you are a small tradesman
You are constantly rubbing up against people and market forces
At this forces you to keep your sanity

There are no such forces operating on the lone wolf social justice keyboard warrior
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #246 - May 26th, 2023 at 11:24am
 
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 11:14am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 9:56am:
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 7:07am:
impossible to know what the truth is nowadays


How has it ever been possible to know truth - necessarily free of information deficit, cultural/moral proscriptions or personal bias?

It's the 'unknown-unknowns' that form the unbridgable abyss between the truth-seeker and the truth.

But you're not arguing for what's true as much as you're arguing for what's best.

There's the true (whatever that is) and then there's the good.



I'm stealing this from Jordan Peterson

Unfortunately, Peterson tends to be intellectually dishonest if it augments the point he's trying to make.

For example, he admits that Dostoevsky's narratives and characters are not literally true, but they highlight insights into human nature. But when he's on his religious rant (where he's at his most unhinged), he makes grandiose claims that the Book of Exodus is 'so true it's still happening today' (whatever that's supposed to mean). He will not concede that Exodus is 'true' the way Dostoevsky's works are 'true'.

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MeisterEckhart
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #247 - May 26th, 2023 at 11:32am
 
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 11:14am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 9:56am:
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 7:07am:
impossible to know what the truth is nowadays


How has it ever been possible to know truth - necessarily free of information deficit, cultural/moral proscriptions or personal bias?

It's the 'unknown-unknowns' that form the unbridgable abyss between the truth-seeker and the truth.

But you're not arguing for what's true as much as you're arguing for what's best.

There's the true (whatever that is) and then there's the good.


You basically run with a idea
See if it works
And if it does you can assume it is true enough

Careful! That'sa forumla for a 'noble lie' - One that ma suit you at the cost of others' wellbeing - i.e. propaganda / dogma.

Who gets to decide what's true enough?

How much truth is necessary for a proposition to be true enough?
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JC Denton
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #248 - May 26th, 2023 at 11:39am
 
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 11:18am:
JC Denton wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 8:43am:
Quote:
Mattyfisk posted

Not just humiliated, dear, thoroughly rogered.

A so-called superpower invades its nearest neighbour and gets forced back to the fringes.

Then, piece by piece, forced into retreat from that. Banished from the world, up for crimes against humanity, GDP growth back to 1990s levels, and an entire generation forced into the meatgrinder - or exile.

One thing we know, Aquascoot, you sure can pick the losing side.

Ever get the feeling you've been plundered?


wot?

on the GDP thing, how is that true? isn't the russian federation's gdp projected to grow this year more than most european countries?

who called the russian federation a superpower? you are conflating it with the soviet union which is not the same thing. why do so few people understand the 'superpower' concept

banished from the world? you mean a few western countries - most of the world is located in south and east asia, latin america and africa, and the rf is certainly not 'banished' from those places. india and china a piece are about a third of the world's population - the indian govt is ambivalent towards the russian federation, with some people there telling me the average indian person supports it somewhat (go look at what the hindustani times publishes on its yt channel), same is true in china. it's one of the reasons these allegedly devastating sanctions have had such a minimal impact.

an entire generation? the force the russians are deploying in ukraine is relatively small -- way too small in my opinion -- and even of the 300,000 recently mobilised, most are still being held in reserve. this is pure projection, it's the ukrainians sacrificing most of their young male population.

what is this absolute bullsh1t karnal lol



Carmel and many like him are practising more or a religion
Then an honest assessment

I think there is really nothing that Putin or trump could do
That would alter their mind about Putin or trump
That sort of concrete thinking is in no way different from a fundamentalist religious perspective

The left are very prone to this sort of analysis

The right not so much
If you run a small business or you are a small tradesman
You are constantly rubbing up against people and market forces
At this forces you to keep your sanity

There are no such forces operating on the lone wolf social justice keyboard warrior
\

the "right" are just as stupid on ukraine as the left have been, the british have a conservative govt atm and they're the most bullish actors on the continent against the RF

it's unlikely trump would have done any differently than biden has had he been in office when this started, some neocon  hawk would have said something flattering about him and he'd of given them free licence afterwards to arm ukraine with whatever it wanted Cool
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« Last Edit: May 26th, 2023 at 11:45am by JC Denton »  
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #249 - May 26th, 2023 at 1:25pm
 
My take on Zelensky's G7 attendance:

The G7, and other world powers, have determined that the Ukraine war is at a stalemate. Any further prosecution of the war would be tantamount to genocide.

Zelensky was summoned to the G7 meeting against his will.

Zelensky was told that Ukrainian incursions into Russia whether by the Ukrainian army or non-aligned pro-Ukraine separatists will not be tolerated, and that it's on Zelensky to rein in the separatists.

Zelensky was told that the southeast and Crimea will be demarcated as a Russian-occupied zone pending a diplomatic outcome.

For that, Zelensky will get F-16s and a continued supply of materiel to defend the remaining Ukraine territory.
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aquascoot
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #250 - May 26th, 2023 at 6:00pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 11:32am:
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 11:14am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 9:56am:
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 7:07am:
impossible to know what the truth is nowadays


How has it ever been possible to know truth - necessarily free of information deficit, cultural/moral proscriptions or personal bias?

It's the 'unknown-unknowns' that form the unbridgable abyss between the truth-seeker and the truth.

But you're not arguing for what's true as much as you're arguing for what's best.

There's the true (whatever that is) and then there's the good.


You basically run with a idea
See if it works
And if it does you can assume it is true enough

Careful! That'sa forumla for a 'noble lie' - One that ma suit you at the cost of others' wellbeing - i.e. propaganda / dogma.

Who gets to decide what's true enough?

How much truth is necessary for a proposition to be true enough?



i'd say the exact opposite.

if , for instance , canberra says that the truth is , we are going to spend 10 billion a year on aboriginal policies that will close the gap and , after 5 years, we see that aborigines have gone backwards on 17 of the 19 parameters used to measure 'closing the gap' then we can establish that as a lie.

you can put forward a hypothesis
run the experiment and then establish the truth of the matter.


we decided to allow our health system to become run by doctors trained only in treating the symptoms of disease and in big phamra producing medications for them to use.

they said "the truth is that this will improve health"

now, after 40 years or so of big pharma, hospital yealth model peoples life expectancy has gone up by 5 years BUT the average person has a debilitating illness of some sort for the last 20 years of their life as opposed to 4 years baack in 1980.

so health span (the number of years you can remain active, play cricket with the grankids, have sex, walk the dog etc) has gone backwards by 11 years.

so that was a LIE and we need to rethink health and see gyms as health care centres and hospitals as  money making ventures for the medical pharma complex.

the data are pretty clear. if you want to be pragmatic about it

this is the way to establish truth
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #251 - May 26th, 2023 at 6:21pm
 
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 6:00pm:
they said "the truth is that this will improve health"

Predictions are utterances of faith, not truth.
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Jasin
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #252 - May 26th, 2023 at 7:10pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 6:21pm:
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 6:00pm:
they said "the truth is that this will improve health"

Predictions are utterances of faith, not truth.

Not when they are based on the facts of the past.

What the Germans did to the Jews (because of what they did to Jesus long ago).
The Moslems will do to the French (because of what Mohommed did long ago).

What goes around, comes around (on this spherical world).
Fact!
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Karnal
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #253 - May 26th, 2023 at 7:14pm
 
JC Denton wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 8:43am:
Quote:
Mattyfisk posted

Not just humiliated, dear, thoroughly rogered.

A so-called superpower invades its nearest neighbour and gets forced back to the fringes.

Then, piece by piece, forced into retreat from that. Banished from the world, up for crimes against humanity, GDP growth back to 1990s levels, and an entire generation forced into the meatgrinder - or exile.

One thing we know, Aquascoot, you sure can pick the losing side.

Ever get the feeling you've been plundered?


wot?

on the GDP thing, how is that true? isn't the russian federation's gdp projected to grow this year more than most european countries?

who called the russian federation a superpower? you are conflating it with the soviet union which is not the same thing. why do so few people understand the 'superpower' concept

banished from the world? you mean a few western countries - most of the world is located in south and east asia, latin america and africa, and the rf is certainly not 'banished' from those places. india and china a piece are about a third of the world's population - the indian govt is ambivalent towards the russian federation, with some people there telling me the average indian person supports it somewhat (go look at what the hindustani times publishes on its yt channel), same is true in china. it's one of the reasons these allegedly devastating sanctions have had such a minimal impact.

an entire generation? the force the russians are deploying in ukraine is relatively small -- way too small in my opinion -- and even of the 300,000 recently mobilised, most are still being held in reserve. this is pure projection, it's the ukrainians sacrificing most of their young male population.

what is this absolute bullsh1t karnal lol


Russia has lost an entire generation of smart workers, dear, lost either to exile or the war.

Banished from Europe, where it was economically integrated. It now has to sell more oil to China and India for less, and this deal is far from sustainable. No country wants to be a fossil fuel economy alone. The gulf states are doing everything they can to diversify and get out.

Russia is on the UN Security Council with veto powers. That's a superpower.

GDP-growth is down, with Russia's own accounts far from believable. Russian foreign reserves have been frozen, billions in capital lost, the foreign wealth of it's entire kleptocracy seized. There's no Western foreign investment or trade, and an over-reliance on one fickle fair-weather friend: Chi-na.

The West has locked Russia out, with sanctions biting hard:

[url]The evidence presented here suggests that these measures have been highly effective since, perhaps, mid-2022 and that the Russian economy by the end of 2023 will be in serious difficulties. By this time, it may become clear whether the war on Ukraine can be maintained militarily and whether the Russian regime in its current form will survive.[/url]

https://www.economicsobservatory.com/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-russian-ec...

This is not bullshit, dear, it's the truth. If you want to see how insulated economies survive with a sole reliance on China, look at North Korea.

The damage to Russian soft power, of course, is incalculable. Its former Soviet satelites are looking for friends elsewhere, China is soaking them in. It has become personal, the world turning on Russian people too. Outside Russia, Russians can't apologise enough. Russians have become the new Germans.

On the hard power front, Finland has joined NATO, Sweden's nearly there, and Europe's increasing weapons spending. Trump couldn't do this - Putin could.

Don't kid yourself, JC. Fuck with the G7, this is what you get. Remember this: it used to be the G8.

Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?
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Dnarever
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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #254 - May 26th, 2023 at 7:15pm
 
JC Denton wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 11:39am:
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 11:18am:
JC Denton wrote on May 26th, 2023 at 8:43am:
Quote:
Mattyfisk posted

Not just humiliated, dear, thoroughly rogered.

A so-called superpower invades its nearest neighbour and gets forced back to the fringes.

Then, piece by piece, forced into retreat from that. Banished from the world, up for crimes against humanity, GDP growth back to 1990s levels, and an entire generation forced into the meatgrinder - or exile.

One thing we know, Aquascoot, you sure can pick the losing side.

Ever get the feeling you've been plundered?


wot?

on the GDP thing, how is that true? isn't the russian federation's gdp projected to grow this year more than most european countries?

who called the russian federation a superpower? you are conflating it with the soviet union which is not the same thing. why do so few people understand the 'superpower' concept

banished from the world? you mean a few western countries - most of the world is located in south and east asia, latin america and africa, and the rf is certainly not 'banished' from those places. india and china a piece are about a third of the world's population - the indian govt is ambivalent towards the russian federation, with some people there telling me the average indian person supports it somewhat (go look at what the hindustani times publishes on its yt channel), same is true in china. it's one of the reasons these allegedly devastating sanctions have had such a minimal impact.

an entire generation? the force the russians are deploying in ukraine is relatively small -- way too small in my opinion -- and even of the 300,000 recently mobilised, most are still being held in reserve. this is pure projection, it's the ukrainians sacrificing most of their young male population.

what is this absolute bullsh1t karnal lol



Carmel and many like him are practising more or a religion
Then an honest assessment

I think there is really nothing that Putin or trump could do
That would alter their mind about Putin or trump
That sort of concrete thinking is in no way different from a fundamentalist religious perspective

The left are very prone to this sort of analysis

The right not so much
If you run a small business or you are a small tradesman
You are constantly rubbing up against people and market forces
At this forces you to keep your sanity

There are no such forces operating on the lone wolf social justice keyboard warrior
\

the "right" are just as stupid on ukraine as the left have been, the british have a conservative govt atm and they're the most bullish actors on the continent against the RF

it's unlikely trump would have done any differently than biden has had he been in office when this started, some neocon  hawk would have said something flattering about him and he'd of given them free licence afterwards to arm ukraine with whatever it wanted Cool


Quote:
it's unlikely trump would have done any differently than biden has


Trump had 4 years of Pro Trump decision making, Russia supported Trumps election campaign and have already announced that they are on team Trump for 2024.

Trump would have been supporting the Russian invasion just as the Trump solution to the invasion is to give Russia much of Ukraines land.
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