Australian Politics Forum - expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.

John Smith

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #150 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 8:51am

Bobby. wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 11:09pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 10:59pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 12:23pm:

but the fact remains, putin will prevail in the ukraine.

he simply had too many artillery shells and a much bigger population

but NATO has a combined GDP of more than $40 trillion cf Russia's $1.5 trillion, so as long as there is something to bomb in Ukraine, NATO will outlast Russia.

Let's say that Ukraine gets back its territory -

They get as their prize - 100s of 1000s of bombed out buildings -
whole cities turned into piles of smoking rubble -
100s of 1000s of their people dead -
half their population has left the county as refugees -
their roads, bridges, farms and factories in ruin.
Their territory poisoned with depleted Uranium for millions of years -
their farm land infested with land mines that will take 50 years to clear out -
they will be lucky if the Zaporizhia nuclear power plant doesn't melt down -
that is not a win.

Ukraine has already lost everything.

All that means is that once the war stops, Ukraine will go through many years of economic boom as it rebuilds.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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aquascoot

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #151 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:02am

Yes zelensky either goes to the negotiating table 12 months ago with a lot of his infrastructure intact
Or he goes to the negotiating table in 3 months time
With the place looking like Iraq no running water or electricity

We can see how the Western countries deal with this situation once the virtue signalling is over

Iraq is still a basket case with people living in rubble
And with America bankrupt and its own citizens descending into poverty
The chances they will rebuild Ukraine are 0

Zolensky should have taken the deal 12 months ago

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #152 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 10:26am

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 22^nd, 2023 at 10:11am:

What we need to wait for is the meaning behind Zelensky's warm welcome at the G7 meeting.

What was being signalled?

Were the affirmations of support for Zelensky - the handshaking and back-slapping, the rush for photo opportunities with him - about a steadfast commitment to Ukraine's defence, or consolation?

What was the G7 signalling?

- Solidarity and commitment to aiding Ukraine to a victory?
- Consolations/commiseration for an anticipated defeat?
- A signal that Ukraine will be rescued at the cost of Western powers' hegemony in Ukraine?

In the case of a realised victory facilitated by the West, what will be the cost to Ukraine? Surrender of the south and southeast?

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Bobby.

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #153 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 1:54pm

JC Denton wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 8:36am:

there is almost no possibility he can go to the 'negotiating table' bc the ultranationalists will kill him. this war isn't just a battle for the survival of the ukrainian state, it's about zelensky's (and presumably some of his clique's) personal survival too. the only hope is the CIA helps him clean house before he initiates a negotiation but that is unlikely too. the best ukraine can do is stall russia as much as possible in the hopes of either political upheaval (extremely unlikely) or political concessions to leave ukraine entirely by putin (unlikely, but there's some possibly) himself. it may not be possible whatsoever bc the irredentist ultranationalists in ukraine will never be content with any negotiated agreement unless they get crimea 'back' as well, which the kremlins will never ever agree to.

so if this chain of logic is correct, ukraine will be completely destroyed slowly over the coming years.

It will - including Kiev.

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Captain Caveman

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #154 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 2:35pm

aquascoot wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:02am:

Yes zelensky either goes to the negotiating table 12 months ago with a lot of his infrastructure intact
Or he goes to the negotiating table in 3 months time
With the place looking like Iraq no running water or electricity

We can see how the Western countries deal with this situation once the virtue signalling is over

Iraq is still a basket case with people living in rubble
And with America bankrupt and its own citizens descending into poverty
The chances they will rebuild Ukraine are 0

Zolensky should have taken the deal 12 months ago

He took a deal 12 months ago.
Just not a deal to talk peace, rather a deal to make peace talks illegal. Undecided

Someone above him wanted this.

As for usamerica, look up Michael Yon and Darien gap.
They're crossing the borders by the truck load, all day, every day, and half of them are not poor.
These people are paying good money to someone.
The ones that pay big money don't get robbed by the natives but those that don't are open slather.
Seems the USA is open to anyone who wants to go there.
Good luck with that.
The country is going down the toilet.

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Bobby.

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #155 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 3:53pm

We see the horrors of WW2 in Europe again- now in Ukraine.

They talk of winning and glory.
Both sides in WW2 committed the worst war crimes in history -
there is nothing glorious about it.
57 consecutive nights of the Blitz on Britain was a war crime
by the Nazis -
and so was the reply - to bomb nearly every city in Germany
until it was a pile of smoking rubble mostly aimed at women and children.
It was a total war where women and children were targets on both sides.
It makes me feel disgusted that I'm a human being to
think of what human beings can do to each other -
yet we see it again, right in front of us now in Ukraine.
It's as though demonic forces were there all the time -
but only hiding to reveal themselves once again.
Are human beings just pure evil?

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53070 Gender:	Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly. Reply #156 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 4:47pm Russia is just trying to protect Ukraine from the American Democrat Gay/Trans/Porn Party invasion.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53070 Gender:	Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly. Reply #157 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 6:44pm I've said a number or times, long ago. That Russia's navy is a rusted out version of the USSR and here's a present look at the Russian Navy 10 years later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIddma4UGSU
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

freediver

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #158 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 8:53pm

Bobby. wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 3:53pm:

We see the horrors of WW2 in Europe again- now in Ukraine.

They talk of winning and glory.
Both sides in WW2 committed the worst war crimes in history -
there is nothing glorious about it.
57 consecutive nights of the Blitz on Britain was a war crime
by the Nazis -
and so was the reply - to bomb nearly every city in Germany
until it was a pile of smoking rubble mostly aimed at women and children.
It was a total war where women and children were targets on both sides.
It makes me feel disgusted that I'm a human being to
think of what human beings can do to each other -
yet we see it again, right in front of us now in Ukraine.
It's as though demonic forces were there all the time -
but only hiding to reveal themselves once again.
Are human beings just pure evil?

Would you prefer we rolled over and let the Nazis take over?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Bobby.

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #159 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 8:57pm

freediver wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 8:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 3:53pm:

We see the horrors of WW2 in Europe again- now in Ukraine.

They talk of winning and glory.
Both sides in WW2 committed the worst war crimes in history -
there is nothing glorious about it.
57 consecutive nights of the Blitz on Britain was a war crime
by the Nazis -
and so was the reply - to bomb nearly every city in Germany
until it was a pile of smoking rubble mostly aimed at women and children.
It was a total war where women and children were targets on both sides.
It makes me feel disgusted that I'm a human being to
think of what human beings can do to each other -
yet we see it again, right in front of us now in Ukraine.
It's as though demonic forces were there all the time -
but only hiding to reveal themselves once again.
Are human beings just pure evil?

Would you prefer we rolled over and let the Nazis take over?

No but was it really necessary to bomb women and children?
Do two wrongs make a right?

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freediver

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #160 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 8:58pm

Quote:

in order for them to win an attritional victory (absurd) they have to be killing 5 russians for every 1 ukrainian

Depending on which estimates you use, they are killing between 1 and 20 Russian troops for every Ukrainian.

Why does it need to be a conventional attritional victory? When was the last war that was decided on those terms?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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freediver

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #161 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:00pm

Bobby. wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 8:57pm:

freediver wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 8:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 3:53pm:

We see the horrors of WW2 in Europe again- now in Ukraine.

They talk of winning and glory.
Both sides in WW2 committed the worst war crimes in history -
there is nothing glorious about it.
57 consecutive nights of the Blitz on Britain was a war crime
by the Nazis -
and so was the reply - to bomb nearly every city in Germany
until it was a pile of smoking rubble mostly aimed at women and children.
It was a total war where women and children were targets on both sides.
It makes me feel disgusted that I'm a human being to
think of what human beings can do to each other -
yet we see it again, right in front of us now in Ukraine.
It's as though demonic forces were there all the time -
but only hiding to reveal themselves once again.
Are human beings just pure evil?

Would you prefer we rolled over and let the Nazis take over?

No but was it really necessary to bomb women and children?
Do two wrongs make a right?

It's war Bobby. It's not meant to be right.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 112925 Melbourne Gender:	Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly. Reply #162 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:03pm freediver wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:00pm: It's war Bobby. It's not meant to be right. But Jesus said we should love our enemies and we should turn the other cheek.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51285 At my desk.	Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly. Reply #163 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:14pm Bobby. wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:03pm: freediver wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:00pm: It's war Bobby. It's not meant to be right. But Jesus said we should love our enemies and we should turn the other cheek. We just had this conversation bobby.
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Bobby.

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Re: expert - says Ukraine is losing the war badly.
Reply #164 - May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:17pm

freediver wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:14pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:03pm:

freediver wrote on May 23^rd, 2023 at 9:00pm:

It's war Bobby. It's not meant to be right.

But Jesus said we should love our enemies and
we should turn the other cheek.

We just had this conversation bobby.

But how could anyone call themselves a Christian and then bomb women and children?

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