The Wrong Referendum

https://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/wrong-referendum.html

This year, Australians will go to the polls to have their say on the wrong referendum.

On the one hand, the aboriginal voice to parliament is a racist, meaningless, populist gesture straight from the Chinese Communist Party playbook.

On the other hand, the major parties have, over the past few decades, broken a convention that has been followed since 1948 for allocating 6 and 3 year senate terms after a double dissolution election. By introducing new legislation for counting votes, and repeatedly breaking promises regarding how these terms would be allocated, the major parties have opened the door to whichever group controls the senate effectively stealing additional senate seats for themselves. This has affected the outcome of two federal elections and consequently the type of legislation that has been allowed to pass through parliament.

Although an agreed convention ought to work for allocating long and short term senate seats, the repeated broken promises mean that the only way to fix the problem is via a referendum that dictates the seat allocation. Unfortunately, despite previously showing strong support for, and universal agreement on the method, the major parties are no longer willing to even acknowledge there is a problem to be fixed, because to do so is to acknowledge their own lies to the Australian people.

Back to the voice to parliament. It is, at its core, racist. You may be tempted to dismiss this as some kind of benign racism, just as you might be tempted to dismiss whatever form the voice takes a benign dictatorship, but it is far more insidious. It is an attempt to rebrand racism as a social good and a means to solve genuine and significant problems, particularly in remote aboriginal communities. It does this by providing a facade of progress that will, maybe for a decade or two, let people think we are fixing these problems. Further, it will continue the ultimate cause of these problems. The aboriginal culture that we as a society are suddenly so keen to protect is not the tradition culture of pre-colonisation aboriginal society. Instead, it is a new culture that has been crafted through generations of learned helplessness. By stealing aboriginal wages and giving them whatever we deem necessary, we have taught aborigines in our regional communities that there is no point trying to work hard to better their lives, and that they should look to white authority figures for a handout. This has been watered down in recent decades into various forms of welfare and the soft bigotry of low expectations. Even more recently, we have been teaching aborigines to turn this history of oppression into blind racism, which always comes with some kind of handout.

Rest of article: https://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/wrong-referendum.html

freediver wrote on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 9:22am:



Misrepresentation: it is a new culture struggling with annihilation and dispossession, and generations of learned welfare dependency.


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WTF does this mean? Surely just a sneaky attempt to deny the fact welfare dependency is forced onto people, NOT sought by them. 

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That's what the imposition of welfare dependency is. 

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A handout? Enforced welfare dependency resulting in the egregious gap statistics....

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I've already refuted enough of it...

Australia: Populated by Indigenous Aborigines...
...then British Cops and Robbers, then American Free Settler Colonialists with a right to own a gun and shoot Boongs, then every other peoples from around the world.

There is really no 'official' thing as an Australian.

Jasin wrote on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 1:26pm:



Remember Redfern in Sydney?

The Abbos got almost free state housing there -

how did they thank us?
they smashed the houses to pieces -
with holes in every wall until they all had to be bulldozed.
You can't help Abbos - no matter how much money you spend on them -
they are dying out - they will be extinct in 100 years.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 3:26pm:


I actually agree with you, at least in this context. You would realise this if you would stop parroting CCP propaganda long enough to read what you are responding to.

I have seen you try to change dozens of different threads to this same topic. I have had the identical argument with you several times about it. It is boring and irritating. You don't live in this country. You know nothing at all about it. You even thought we were in the USA for a while. But you keep trying to tell us what it is really like here.

Ah, my bad. I keep forgetting that every topic is in fact about your idiotic CCP propaganda.

Jasin wrote on Apr 8^th, 2023 at 5:45pm:


The CCP starved 50 million of it's own citizens to death by trying to feed them equally. That was not America's fault. The only thing they are good at producing is corpses.

And changing the subject.

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They were trying to give the Chinese people their own food back. In the process, 50 million of them starved to death.

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Not about CCP policy. About your idiotic CCP propaganda.

What exactly do you think the problem is going to be? People have been predicting dire consequences from low birth rates for decades, but all I can see is benefit. At the very least, the Chinese are unlikely to be starving to death again soon.

Communism is a classless system in which the means of production are owned communally and private property is nonexistent or severely curtailed....How is allowing individual groups Like Aborigines to have input into their own lives Communism Freediver....It is actually the complete opposite....Why do you oppose giving Aboriginal people any autonomy Freediver....Are you that self serving and extreme you cannot see any good in anyone you denigrate on a daily basis???

The topic is the referendum. If you knew anything at all about this country you would know what that means.

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It is explained pretty clearly in the article. I'll give you a hint: the means of production are owned communally.

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Maybe not the wrong referendum but maybe there should be multiple referendums.

There is no doubt that your referendum is fully justified but not so sure that it cancels the need for this one.

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 11:13am:


Aha...an attempt at real debate.

So, the Nats  reject a yes vote in the referendum, because "it won't close the gap".

See your error; what is the referendum FOR? 

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You deplorable diversionary fraud... but let's see if there is anything on topic in the following:


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Non market-based employment (which is what is required to end welfare dependency in Oz) requires the local community to determine what is useful work to develop  their own community.

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FD talking about "communism", totally irrelevant in the "wrong referendum" debate (except in so far as a JG established by govt. acting as employer of last resort is a form of  "communism").


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Non-market based employment REQUIRES local community autonomy and input in employment design, managed/funded  by the federal govt. which is the ultimate arbiter of resource allocation.

[Note: you abandoned  the Job Guarantee debate  out of sheer incompetence. and ignorance.    

[quote]Freediver....Are you that self serving and extreme you cannot see any good in anyone you denigrate on a daily basis??? [/quote]

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Nothing to do with ending welfare dependency among Oz blacks....meantime I see you carrying on a debate (above)  about  communism with another poster.

Real transparent debating...(not)...

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I did. In the article. That's why you are asking the question. I'll give you a hint: the means of production are owned communally. If you want more detail, go back to the bit in the article that talks about the means of production being owned communally.

Why is this so complicated for you?

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Again, if you actually lived in this country, rather than parroting idiotic propaganda at us from your mothers basement on the outskirts of Beijing, you would understand the relevance.

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 12:03pm:



Again, if you had a shred of integrity and honesty, you would debate the issue of enforced welfare dependency, its relationship to the gap, and what to do about it  - even under the tricky heading  of" designed to invalidate a Yes vote......

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2023 at 12:57pm:


Have you figured out what "the means of production are owned communally" means yet?

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I have, about a dozen times now. It's like talking to a robot. Or a parrot.

Come on FD, where are you?

You need to prove you are not the most egregious liar on Ozpol, ....starting with post #10 and following the subsequent exchanges until you abandoned the discussion., in #38.

(I know you visted Ozpol yesterday, without replying to your own thread...)

Hey, this is  your chance to extract an apology from me, ...after all, being exposed as a liar, as I am asserting,  is not a trivial thing.

John Smith wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 4:22pm:


Are you?

Hey - I've got a good offer for you....... just sign this contract over your home and property and we'll take a vote on it, and once our premise is accepted, we'll sit down with the stakeholder future owners and spend six months working out how we'll divide it up for you.... then we'll just take it all legal, eh?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:


no

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:


no thanks, you're to stupid to do deals with

Fd still thinks he's relevant.  Hilarious 

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 11^th, 2023 at 10:42pm:


Just search wording of Voice amendment.

Here is the proposal for the Voice referendum!!!

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https://www.niaa.gov.au/indigenous-affairs/referendum-aboriginal-and-torres-stra...

issuevoter wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 7:14am:


I only found the same as philperth2010.

Sub-section 3:

"The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.”

Seems to me, if you are going to enshrine a voice speaking for "matters relating to aboriginals"  in the constitution, then parliament needs to have power to act on the voice.

Gnads wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:01am:


How many remote Aboriginal communities have Government Representatives....How many remote Aboriginal communities have health care or education....How many remote Aboriginal communities have employment opportunities....The Mabo and Wik decisions gave Land Rights and Native Title to Aboriginal people as long as they maintain a physical and spiritual connection to their traditional lands....This is causing a problem when the services are not delivered and Aboriginal people remain on there traditional lands or lose them....The Voice will give these communities the chance to have positive input and make decisions concerning there own lives and needs....The current model is failing and remote Aboriginal people are not heard or considered by Government decision makers who do nothing to support these communities....The Voice will at least give the Government some input that is sadly lacking!!!

 

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 11:37am:


Thanks mate....It is easy to criticise when you ignore all the facts....Aboriginal people were not counted in the census (which is used to deliver services to the Australian people) until after 1967....Aboriginal people were considered no more important than animals or plants before that....History has a way of repeating itself???

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 12:33pm:


Most of the money goes to the bureaucrats - and costs - of running the poverty industry.

What is required is non-market-based employment organized at the local level.

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 12:33pm:


They do to some extent however it is not working is it....The Voice will allow these services to be delivered to communities with there involvement....Local communities will advise the Voice Committee about what services are required and how they can be delivered....The Government of the day will consider these proposals and either accept or reject them if they are not sound....I would put education and health as the top priority!!!

Jasin wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 8:39am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 1:11pm:



Rubbish they move from state to state, city to city or regional centres all the phukking time.

Big city bred ferals are moving to my regional area at huge rates.

1. because employment opportunities are scarce(they don't want to work).

2. because the old man is doing time in our local prison ....

so family turn up lock, stock & barrel demanding crisis housing, straining scant resources & bringing further criminality to the community.

Your grandiose ideology does nothing in reality ... just like your grasp on it.

What you want & the reality of how it can be achieved is just pipe dream BS.

Simple answer then - we take the billions out of their hands and put it in the hands of a single overseeing body that will consider their applications on merit for any funding and will disburse cash as it sees fit for worthwhile projects while keeping a very close watch on what actually happens and reporting weekly back to the relevant Minister.

They've proven and are proving that handling money is not in them, so somebody needs to do it for them. 

I've proven my point here....................      

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 8:36am:


How will it be chosen by Aboriginal people? Is the government going to set up a parallel democracy based on race?

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They all have the same opportunity as everyone else - to go back to work after their camping trip. They choose not to.

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As the article explains, this is a communist poverty trap.

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You are very confused Phil. We are under no obligation to provide the same services to people who choose to liver in remote communities as we do to those who choose to live where those services can actually be provided.

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How?

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You mean our lives, by demanding we mobilise at huge expense to provide services to remote communities with no viable or sustainable industry? Just an ever expanding parasitisation?

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Why can't they expected to support themselves?

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It is not working because of racists like you Phil. You would not tell these lies to a dying remote community of white people, but you happily trot them out to Aborigines and make false promises of endless services to unsustainable communities.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 12^th, 2023 at 8:59pm:



That's you in a nutshell ... you have no idea about certain peoples mindset......

especially that of generational & in some cases career welfare recipients. They do not possess a work ethic & that's something that is growing across generations.

I don't know who your Prof. Tcherneva is but I'd suggest they, if of a similar mindset to you that you'd better get your "voices" to Parliament & get this situation sorted once & for all ......

especially as you & he/she think you have all the answers & are so much more intelligent than all those who have gone before you ...politicians, professional bureaucrats, social scientists, academics etc etc whose joint efforts over 60 years have yet to solve the endemic problems within regional & remote Aboriginal communities..

despite the 100's of billions of dollars in building infrastructure for housing, education, health & employment in those communities.

BTW the 2 nd highlight I made ... I wasn't just referring to Aboriginals .... in the main it's non Aboriginal ferals.

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2023 at 6:46am:


Racist low ebb bullshit from our resident right wing dictator....Your whole argument is based on your own pathetic opinion not what is proposed by the voice....What is the point in trying to debate someone who claims his bullshit is fact???

philperth2010 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2023 at 9:17am:


Are you trying to say you do not understand what is going on Phil?

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Do you have any evidence for this? For someone who previously thought we were in the USA, you are getting remarkably detailed.

So a single example proves your sweeping generalisation? Isn't that like me saying the CCP put the entire country under water?

You can learn a lot about a country over the internet, but if you have never actually been there, there are always some things you just won't pick up on.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Apr 14^th, 2023 at 6:50am:


Towns like Wilcannia can't be simply abandoned.

It's needed as a tourist stop over, so the still sizable black population needs to be gainfully employed.

Back to the Alice: whites are actually leaving because of the out of control crime situation there, and horrific social dysfunction with high rates of sexual abuse in dysfunctional black families.

The nation has to deal with this, we can't simply close down the Alice. It's a lovely place which should be growing, not dying.   

This voice debate is the best thing that has happened for ages; the s**t is really hitting the fan now, with the Libs in total confusion and chaos, and Labor pathetically assuming a Yes vote will somehow magically change the horrific circumstances on the ground.

I'll be giving my Labor colleagues s**t in spadefuls; as for the Noaltion, we know poverty eradication is the last thing on their platform.

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Enforced welfare dependency itself is a symptom  of a dysfunctional economic system.
(Unless you guarantee employment for all, then by definition the dole as a means of subsistence is in effect forced onto people who aren't employed, and can't find employment.)

Pity about that, now you have two choices: stick your head in the sand, or actually do something to achieve Price's stated platform, ie ending violence and abuse in black communities.

The question remains  - HOW will she do it?

Aborigines scaring off all the Westerners - with the British leaving and the Americans leaving.
Aborigines think they got it made - getting rid of the 'invaders'.
...then the Eastern Europeans move in and its a whole new and non-political ballgame.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 13^th, 2023 at 9:50am:


They broke them ... & turned them into hovels.

Why because they don't know how to live in them & conduct themselves with respect & hygiene ... for something provided for them for SFA at taxpayer expense.

You know you're as bad as that ex-Labor Minister windbag Graham Richardson who went to the NT to visit remote communities ... coming back & saying Aboriginals were living in 3rd world conditions living in corrugated iron, steel framed houses on cement floors......

never asked anyone why that was so ..... it was because they lit fires inside & burnt down houses made of timber & other materials.

You can't burn down steel framed corrugated iron houses.

They also featured a community elder saying their public toilets weren't working & all this water was leaking out the back in a stream that was thick with green algae.....

never mind that the reason for that was that the toilets had been vandalised & the ceramic bowls had been kicked & smashed.....

oh dear no one had come out to fix it ey?

But the men folk in the community ... you know the Bush Mechanic types? ... of course they couldn't fix it or make repairs ....

nah ... oppressor Capt Cook whitey had to come and fix it.

Richo ... like the worthless POS he was resigned & did a political runner not much later.

That's why I always cringe when they bring that 2 faced crud on as a political commentator at election times.

You can waffle your shyte until the cows come home, or the moon turns to blue cheese but in all honesty you & your Professor girlfriend would not have a god damned clue.

Gnads wrote on Apr 15^th, 2023 at 7:20pm:


Well - they gave the old and wondrous wrought sandstone Newcastle Post Office to the Abos - they must have had it as a sacred site or something before the White Men came... lined up for their dole cheques before it changed to bank deposit....

All this crap has to stop... or someone will take back the asylum for you all.... idiots.....

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 16^th, 2023 at 11:00pm:


Waffle waffle waffle..... & in 60 years no one has been able to ..... where have you been oh mighty saviour??