Australian Politics Forum - Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse

lee

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Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Apr 4^th, 2023 at 1:43pm

Deep ocean currents around Antarctica headed for collapse, study finds

"The deep ocean circulation that forms around Antarctica could be headed for collapse, say scientists.

Such decline of this ocean circulation will stagnate the bottom of the oceans and generate further impacts affecting climate and marine ecosystems for centuries to come.

The results are detailed in a new study coordinated by Scientia Professor Matthew England, Deputy Director of the ARC Centre for Excellence in Antarctic Science (ACEAS) at UNSW Sydney. The work, published today in Nature, includes lead author Dr. Qian Li—formerly from UNSW and now at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)—as well as co-authors from the Australian National University (ANU) and CSIRO.

Cold water that sinks near Antarctica drives the deepest flow of the overturning circulation—a network of currents that spans the world’s oceans. The overturning carries heat, carbon, oxygen and nutrients around the globe. This influences climate, sea level and the productivity of marine ecosystems.

“Our modelling shows that if global carbon emissions continue at the current rate, then the Antarctic overturning will slow by more than 40 per cent in the next 30 years – and on a trajectory that looks headed towards collapse,” says Prof England."

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/984320

So according to the headline definitely "heading for collapse". But in the text "could be headed for collapse". And of course it is models all the way down. Roll Eyes

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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6169 Gender:	Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse Reply #1 - Apr 4^th, 2023 at 2:28pm Ah yes, the modelling....the models are the unquestionable texts of the climate alarmists, none of which have ever corresponded to reality.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse Reply #2 - Apr 4^th, 2023 at 2:34pm At the other end, the North Atlantic overturning circulation faces similar problems.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #3 - Apr 4^th, 2023 at 2:39pm

lee wrote on Apr 4^th, 2023 at 1:43pm:

Deep ocean currents around Antarctica headed for collapse, study finds

"The deep ocean circulation that forms around Antarctica could be headed for collapse, say scientists.

Such decline of this ocean circulation will stagnate the bottom of the oceans and generate further impacts affecting climate and marine ecosystems for centuries to come.

The results are detailed in a new study coordinated by Scientia Professor Matthew England, Deputy Director of the ARC Centre for Excellence in Antarctic Science (ACEAS) at UNSW Sydney. The work, published today in Nature, includes lead author Dr. Qian Li—formerly from UNSW and now at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)—as well as co-authors from the Australian National University (ANU) and CSIRO.

Cold water that sinks near Antarctica drives the deepest flow of the overturning circulation—a network of currents that spans the world’s oceans. The overturning carries heat, carbon, oxygen and nutrients around the globe. This influences climate, sea level and the productivity of marine ecosystems.

“Our modelling shows that if global carbon emissions continue at the current rate, then the Antarctic overturning will slow by more than 40 per cent in the next 30 years – and on a trajectory that looks headed towards collapse,” says Prof England."

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/984320

So according to the headline definitely "heading for collapse". But in the text "could be headed for collapse". And of course it is models all the way down. Roll Eyes

Hopefully scientists will continue to increase their understanding of these processes, before an irreversible tipping point is reached....

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lee

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #4 - Apr 4^th, 2023 at 4:25pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 4^th, 2023 at 2:39pm:

Hopefully scientists will continue to increase their understanding of these processes, before an irreversible tipping point is reached....

What tipping point? There is NO tipping point. Using unverified, unvalidated models does not show any level of understanding. Roll Eyes

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Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 121982 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse Reply #5 - Apr 4^th, 2023 at 4:28pm I blame China:
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21507 Gender:	Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse Reply #6 - Apr 4^th, 2023 at 4:52pm Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 4^th, 2023 at 2:34pm: At the other end, the North Atlantic overturning circulation faces similar problems. The AMO will shortly turn to the cooling phase.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #7 - Apr 4^th, 2023 at 5:12pm

lee wrote on Apr 4^th, 2023 at 4:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 4^th, 2023 at 2:39pm:

Hopefully scientists will continue to increase their understanding of these processes, before an irreversible tipping point is reached....

What tipping point? There is NO tipping point. Using unverified, unvalidated models does not show any level of understanding. Roll Eyes

"The deep ocean circulation that forms around Antarctica could be headed for collapse, say scientists."

The tipping point when that circulation stops, and we are 'toast'.

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lee

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #8 - Apr 4^th, 2023 at 5:52pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 4^th, 2023 at 5:12pm:

"The deep ocean circulation that forms around Antarctica could be headed for collapse, say scientists."

The tipping point when that circulation stops, and we are 'toast'.

So there you have two assumptions from a numpty.

1. "Could" becomes in his little mind "Absolutely certain".

2. We don't know enough about the oceans to categorically state it would, if happened, be a climate "tipping point". Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #9 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 1:48pm

lee wrote on Apr 4^th, 2023 at 5:52pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 4^th, 2023 at 5:12pm:

"The deep ocean circulation that forms around Antarctica could be headed for collapse, say scientists."

The tipping point when that circulation stops, and we are 'toast'.

So there you have two assumptions from a numpty.

1. "Could" becomes in his little mind "Absolutely certain".

oh dear, see how the ideologue in incapable of rational argument; I said I hope scientists can increase their knowledge, so that they can definitely say a tipping point IS real, BEFORE it happens.

That is, so that the possibility of a tipping point is either ruled in or ruled out.

Quote:

2. We don't know enough about the oceans to categorically state it would, if happened, be a climate "tipping point". Roll Eyes

Indeed... hence the need for further investigation.

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lee

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #10 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 3:41pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 1:48pm:

oh dear, see how the ideologue in incapable of rational argument; I said I hope scientists can increase their knowledge, so that they can definitely say a tipping point IS real, BEFORE it happens.

That's not what you said.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 1:48pm:

I said I hope scientists can increase their knowledge, so that they can definitely say a tipping point IS real, BEFORE it happens.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 4^th, 2023 at 5:12pm:

"The deep ocean circulation that forms around Antarctica could be headed for collapse, say scientists."

The tipping point when that circulation stops, and we are 'toast'.

Nothing about scientists increasing their knowledge. Roll Eyes

"Could" has never meant "absolutely certain". You can't get more rational than that.

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 1:48pm:

Indeed... hence the need for further investigation.

Which come from observations, not models. Roll Eyes

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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 26229 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse Reply #11 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 3:50pm Are we looking at a slowing of the conveyor belt of ocean currents worldwide?
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21507 Gender:	Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse Reply #12 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 4:03pm "Global warming is speeding up ocean currents. Here’s why" https://www.science.org/content/article/global-warming-speeding-ocean-currents-h... From April 2022. Take your pick.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #13 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 6:03pm

lee wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 3:41pm:

That's not what you said.

Dear me....you even kindly quoted what I said, namely:

" I said I hope scientists can increase their knowledge, so that they can definitely say a tipping point IS real, BEFORE it happens

Quote:

Nothing about scientists increasing their knowledge. Roll Eyes

despite the fact I clearly said "I hope the scientists can increase their knowledge"....to the point of being able to confirm tipping points due to AGW, not just the possibility which you are content to blithely ignore.

Quote:

"Could" has never meant "absolutely certain". You can't get more rational than that.

That's true, but you are not equipped to judge rationality, when you can't even comprehend simple english.

Quote:

Which come from observations, not models. Roll Eyes

Precluding investigation of outcomes?

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lee

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #14 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 7:02pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 6:03pm:

Dear me....you even kindly quoted what I said, namely:

Nope. What you said -

lee wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 3:41pm:

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 3:12pm:
"The deep ocean circulation that forms around Antarctica could be headed for collapse, say scientists."

The tipping point when that circulation stops, and we are 'toast'.

Nothing about scientists increasing their knowledge.

Your claims of "scientists" is from today. Not yesterday. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 6:03pm:

That's true, but you are not equipped to judge rationality, when you can't even comprehend simple english.

There you have me. You indeed do understand "simple English". Your only mode is "simple".

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 6:03pm:

Precluding investigation of outcomes?

First you would need a proven model. No-one has come up with one. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #15 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:18pm

lee wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 7:02pm:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1680579839/13#13 date=1680681805]Dear me....you even kindly quoted what I said, namely:

Nope. What you said -

lee wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 3:41pm:

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 3:12pm:
"The deep ocean circulation that forms around Antarctica could be headed for collapse, say scientists."

The tipping point when that circulation stops, and we are 'toast'.

Oh... so you posted the wrong quote...be more careful next time...

Quote:

Nothing about scientists increasing their knowledge.

wromg, it's plainly there in the post you quoted.

Quote:

Your claims of "scientists" is from today. Not yesterday. Roll Eyes

Irrelevent , stop squirming and admit your mistake.

Quote:

There you have me. You indeed do understand "simple English". Your only mode is "simple".

I'll let others judge the merits of that cheap riposte.

Quote:

First you would need a proven model. No-one has come up with one. Roll Eyes

No, you need to keep improving your models, via increasing knowledge.

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lee

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #16 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:49pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:18pm:

wromg, it's plainly there in the post you quoted.

Not the original post. So you don't weant to admit your mistake. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:18pm:

Irrelevent , stop squirming and admit your mistake.

I made a mistake. You lied. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:18pm:

I'll let others judge the merits of that cheap riposte.

Very good. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:18pm:

No, you need to keep improving your models, via increasing knowledge.

Yes. The knowledge has to come first. That's observations. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #17 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 9:34pm

lee wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:18pm:

wromg, it's plainly there in the post you quoted.

Not the original post. So you don't weant to admit your mistake. Roll Eyes

Go back and look at my first post (#3)
you will see my call for increasing scientific knowledge. .

Quote:

I made a mistake. You lied. Roll Eyes

So now you claim the 'mistake' I don't want to admit' was not a mistake but a lie.
You are obviously dementing, or merely slippery.

Quote:

Yes. The knowledge has to come first. That's observations. Roll Eyes

models are developed and finessed, as quantity and quality of observations are increased.

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lee

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Re: Deep Oceans Antarctica heading for Collapse
Reply #18 - Apr 6^th, 2023 at 11:36am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 9:34pm:

you will see my call for increasing scientific knowledge. .

Oh you mean the one about the "irreversible tipping point"? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 9:34pm:

models are developed and finessed, as quantity and quality of observations are increased.

Yes and to date they show no link to observations. That means they are junk. Roll Eyes

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