Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Aborigines want voting rules relaxed (Read 963 times)
The Heartless Felon
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2869
Gender: male
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #15 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 12:37pm
 
As Frank posted:

The details to be inserted in to Constitution would be:

"In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:

1.There shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;
2.The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
3.The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures."

Since the Australian Parliament legislates for ALL Australians, including ATSI peoples, this means that the Voice's representation is not limited.

I'll say no...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
UnSubRocky
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Crocodile Hunter: Origins

Posts: 25098
Rockhampton
Gender: male
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #16 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 1:37pm
 
Not everyone old enough to vote is able to vote. The mentally incompetent; the blind; etc., are unable to cast votes. And you cannot get other people to vote for you.

I still don't know what the "Voice to parliament" entails. Sounds like apartheid.
Back to top
 

At this stage...
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Online


Representative of me

Posts: 44892
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #17 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 1:42pm
 
Quote:
South Australia's history of voting rights for Aboriginal Australians

Although South Australia has led the way many times for the rights of Aboriginal Australians, the state has also brought about some cruel and inhumane laws.

This is a look at some of the pinnacles and plummets for Aboriginal Australians to hold their right to vote in South Australia.

In 1834 the South Australia Act was drafted to create laws to allow the sale of land to help fund the building of the colony, SA Migration Museum director Mandy Paul said.

"The debate about land rights was set up right from the beginning of the colony," she said.

Quote:
"[The Act] included the observation that lands were waste[lands] and unoccupied and supposedly fit for colonisation."


And although it neglected to mention original owners of the land, the Letters Patent of 1836 (which enacted the 1834 Act) contained specific references.

It read in part:

Quote:
    "Provided always that nothing in these our Letters Patent contained shall affect or be construed to affect the rights of any Aboriginal Natives of the said Province to the actual occupation or enjoyment in their own persons or in the persons of their descendants of any Lands therein actually occupied or enjoyed by such Natives."


"The [Letters Patent] basically recognised the proprietary rights of Aboriginal people to the soil," Ms Paul said.

That recognition was a result of intense negotiation between those wishing to establish a colony and liberals wanting to acknowledge original ownership, she said.

Aboriginal men given right to vote in 1856

Next was the passing of the 1851 Act for Better Government, which separated South Australia's governance from New South Wales.

State representatives set about reform and one of the first pieces of legislation passed was the South Australian Constitution in 1856, which included the right for all men to vote.

"South Australia ended up with what was, for the time, a very radical constitution," Ms Paul said.

"All men over 21, including Aboriginal men, apart from those who were in jail, could vote. In the world, at that time, that was really something."

But it wasn't until 1896, two years after all women were given the right to vote, that the first Indigenous vote was recorded.

In the research book Black Fellow Citizens: Aborigines And The Commonwealth Franchise, Pat Stretton and Christine Finnimore recorded 81 of the 102 enrolled Aboriginal Australians at Raukkan voted.
Point McLeay Mission Station in 1905, showing the country side and several stone buildings. Point McLeay mission station was the first location Aboriginal men and women were observed voting in SA in 1896.(State Library of South Australia)

Their right to vote was not always observed, however.

"Through administrative practice, Aboriginal people could be disenfranchised and were frequently," Ms Paul said.

Several historical references revealed Aboriginal women were actively discouraged from voting at Raukkan in the 1896 election.

They were a 'dying race'

The 1901 Constitution of the Australian Commonwealth and following Franchise Act 1902 brought with it hardships to traditional owners.

"Some historians argue that the whole idea of race and a white Australia was really one of the driving forces behind Federation in the first place," Ms Paul said.

The Commonwealth Franchise Act of 1902 which removed Aboriginal Australians' rights to vote in a federal election.

The Commonwealth Franchise Act 1902 removed Aboriginal Australians' rights to vote in a federal election.(National Archives of Australia)

The constitution refused to acknowledge Aboriginal people's existence prior to colonisation. It also excluded Aboriginal people from being included in the census.

At the time, under state legislation, Indigenous men and women were allowed to vote in both state and federal elections in South Australia.

But under the new Act, Indigenous voters were stripped of their right to vote in federal elections.

"It was commonly assumed that Aboriginal people were a dying race and that was one of the drivers of how things were structured," Ms Paul said.
A period of racist control

In a bid to protect what was believed to be an endangered population, the South Australian government created the Aborigines Act in 1911.

An excerpt of The South Australian Aborigines Act 1911 detailing the Chief Protector's custodian role.

An "It set up a period of discriminatory and racist control that was to last until 1962," Ms Paul said.

Combined with the 1923 Training of Children Act, the government could take over the welfare and placement control of every Indigenous child in the state under the age of 18.

One lasting example of racist control was the 1939 amendment which stated an Aboriginal person could denounce their heritage and no longer mix with other Indigenous people to gain exemption from the Act.

The exemption certificates issued to those who denounced their heritage soon became known as "dog licences", Ms Paul said.
Aborigines Act repealed

As part of the removal of the Aborigines Act in 1962, residents were given back their right to travel freely through the state.

"It was part of a real shift in Aboriginal people's lives," Ms Paul said.

Residents at Raukkan and Point Pearce mission stations were free to leave the camps for the first time since 1911, she said.

[cont'd]
Back to top
 

It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
UnSubRocky
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Crocodile Hunter: Origins

Posts: 25098
Rockhampton
Gender: male
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #18 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 1:46pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 12:13pm:
How come the Abos are allowed to vote in this referendum?, it's about them. It should be left up to the rest of Australia to decide if they get a Voice, or not. The Abos would be totally biased to their own cause, would any of them vote "NO"?. Allowing them to vote would be tantamount to rigging the Referendum



That is how the democratic process work. Indigenous Australians make up 2% of the population. If all of them vote "Yes", that is 2% of voters who have voted "yes". The other 98% of the voters could vote either way. But it would be likely that the majority of voters will vote "no".

When the marriage equality law was set for a vote, the results were something like 69% "yes" 31% "no". The law was passed because the majority of voters knew that it did not affect them about what that gay 2% of Australia's population did. But, when it came to "The Voice to parliament" being proposed, that racial 2% getting things their way would likely affect the stability of the Australian people.
Back to top
 

At this stage...
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Online


Representative of me

Posts: 44892
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #19 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 1:48pm
 
Quote:
A period of racist control

In a bid to protect what was believed to be an endangered population, the South Australian government created the Aborigines Act in 1911.
An excerpt of The South Australian Aborigines Act 1911 detailing the Chief Protector's custodian role.

An excerpt of the South Australian Aborigines Act 1911 detailing the chief protector's custodian role.(AIATSIS Library)

Quote:
"It set up a period of discriminatory and racist control that was to last until 1962," Ms Paul said.


Combined with the 1923 Training of Children Act, the government could take over the welfare and placement control of every Indigenous child in the state under the age of 18.

One lasting example of racist control was the 1939 amendment which stated an Aboriginal person could denounce their heritage and no longer mix with other Indigenous people to gain exemption from the Act.

The exemption certificates issued to those who denounced their heritage soon became known as "dog licences", Ms Paul said.
Aborigines Act repealed

As part of the removal of the Aborigines Act in 1962, residents were given back their right to travel freely through the state.

"It was part of a real shift in Aboriginal people's lives," Ms Paul said.

Residents at Raukkan and Point Pearce mission stations were free to leave the camps for the first time since 1911, she said.

Census inclusion

Aboriginal Australians were included in the census after the 1967 referendum for their inclusion provided an overwhelmingly positive result.

And although it was an extremely important milestone for Aboriginal people in South Australia, against common belief it had no impact on their voting rights, Ms Paul said.

"People remember it as having an impact, but that is a coincidence," she said.

In 1962, a federal act was passed to allow all Aboriginal people to vote in federal elections — the two events are often mistakenly linked.

Aboriginal politicians of SA

In 1976 Sir Douglas Nicholls was appointed governor of South Australia, becoming the first Aboriginal governor of any state.

Ruby Hammond became the first Aboriginal candidate to stand for state parliament in 1988.

Kyam Maher, Steve Geroganas and Rossi Boots boss Myron Mann at the boot factory.

Kyam Maher (left) became South Australia's first Aboriginal parliamentary minister in 2015.(ABC News: Nick Harmsen)

In 2012, Kyam Maher was elected to the Legislative Council, replacing outgoing MLC Bob Sneath.

Then in February 2015, Mr Maher became the first Aboriginal politician to be awarded a ministerial position in the South Australian Government — the Minister for Manufacturing and Innovation, Automotive Transformation and Aboriginal Affairs and Reconciliation.

In January 2016 he became the Leader of the Government in the Legislative Council.

Political recognition

In 2013, the South Australian Constitution Act of 1934 was changed to acknowledge Indigenous heritage.

Section 1.2.2 mentioned an apology given to parliament on May 28, 1997.

Section 1.2 was included to acknowledge the recognition of Aboriginal peoples.

An excerpt of 2013 Amendment to Constitution Act of 1934 which included Aboriginal Australians.

The 2013 amendment included an apology and waiver.(South Australian Government)

Though formally acknowledging Aboriginal people as the traditional owners of the land, Ms Paul said the inclusion of "the Parliament does not intend this section to have any legal force or effect" in the text made the adjustment tokenistic.

"It's great that [Section 1.2] is there, but it is rather undermined by its status."

She said although progress had been made in many areas of politics for Aboriginals in South Australia, there was still much more to do.

"On the one hand we no longer think of Aboriginal people [as in the 1900s] an inferior or dying race.

"But on the other hand they're still very much second-class citizens in their own country."

[Source]
Back to top
 

It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 14112
Gender: male
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #20 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 3:57pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 12:13pm:
How come the Abos are allowed to vote in this referendum?, it's about them. It should be left up to the rest of Australia to decide if they get a Voice, or not. The Abos would be totally biased to their own cause, would any of them vote "NO"?. Allowing them to vote would be tantamount to rigging the Referendum

 
As a matter of fact, quite  a few 'blacks' inc. Mundine and Price,  say they will vote "no"....
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Online


Representative of me

Posts: 44892
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #21 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 4:36pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 1:37pm:
Not everyone old enough to vote is able to vote. The mentally incompetent; the blind; etc., are unable to cast votes. And you cannot get other people to vote for you.


Actually, if you are vision impaired you can have someone help you to cast your vote.  If you have a language difficulty, again, you can have someone help cast your vote.  If you are mentally incapacitated you can have someone else help cast your vote.  Ideally, it would be an election official but it can be, with their permission, a member of your family. The electoral act is fairly liberal and the electoral officials are fairly liberal in it's application.  In their view it is better that someone casts their vote than someone doesn't.

Quote:
I still don't know what the "Voice to parliament" entails. Sounds like apartheid.


Only in your imagination.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 60427
Here
Gender: male
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #22 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 4:50pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 12:13pm:
How come the Abos are allowed to vote in this referendum?, it's about them. It should be left up to the rest of Australia to decide if they get a Voice, or not. The Abos would be totally biased to their own cause, would any of them vote "NO"?. Allowing them to vote would be tantamount to rigging the Referendum






Quote:
How come the Abos are allowed to vote in this referendum?, it's about them.


Can you think of a referendum where the people that it impacted didn't get a vote ?

How about the republic referendum ? If people who it affected were not allowed a vote who would be left ? Nobody?

Maybe we should outsource this vote to France? That would solve your issue?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Boris
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4438
Gender: male
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #23 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 5:11pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 4:36pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 1:37pm:
Not everyone old enough to vote is able to vote. The mentally incompetent; the blind; etc., are unable to cast votes. And you cannot get other people to vote for you.


Actually, if you are vision impaired you can have someone help you to cast your vote.  If you have a language difficulty, again, you can have someone help cast your vote.  If you are mentally incapacitated you can have someone else help cast your vote.  Ideally, it would be an election official but it can be, with their permission, a member of your family. The electoral act is fairly liberal and the electoral officials are fairly liberal in it's application.  In their view it is better that someone casts their vote than someone doesn't.

Quote:
I still don't know what the "Voice to parliament" entails. Sounds like apartheid.


Only in your imagination.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It is Apartheid - one race of people is superior and has power over all the other races
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Online


Representative of me

Posts: 44892
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #24 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 5:37pm
 
Boris wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 5:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 4:36pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 1:37pm:
Not everyone old enough to vote is able to vote. The mentally incompetent; the blind; etc., are unable to cast votes. And you cannot get other people to vote for you.


Actually, if you are vision impaired you can have someone help you to cast your vote.  If you have a language difficulty, again, you can have someone help cast your vote.  If you are mentally incapacitated you can have someone else help cast your vote.  Ideally, it would be an election official but it can be, with their permission, a member of your family. The electoral act is fairly liberal and the electoral officials are fairly liberal in it's application.  In their view it is better that someone casts their vote than someone doesn't.

Quote:
I still don't know what the "Voice to parliament" entails. Sounds like apartheid.


Only in your imagination.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It is Apartheid - one race of people is superior and has power over all the other races


Oh, dearie, dearie, me, what a tool you are proving to be, Matty.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 99088
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #25 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 5:41pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 11:25am:
freediver wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 7:01am:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/mar/26/fears-indigenous-australians-could-be-disfranchised-in-voice-referendum-unless-voting-rules-changed

Despite the Greens pushing the government to allow voters to enrol on referendum day, voters will be required to enrol in advance in order to cast their vote – something advocates say could negatively affect Indigenous communities.

“In a perverse way, [the current rules are] stopping our mob and suppressing their voice to get a voice – it’s a very unusual situation,” the Kamilaroi man said.

“If someone turns up at a polling booth and there’s a person in the community that can vouch for that person – they should be able to vote, that is what we are advocating for.”



And of course they would all need a translator like McGowan's, to explain the wording of the referendum question in Aboriginese and explain the meaning and purpose of constitutional change in the context of the  legal framework of how Australia is governed.

I'd like to hear in Aborigines Kriol how the details would be explained to all those remote ones (!) who don't speak English and can't read and write.
Readers are invited to translate this into Aborigines Kriol:


"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details to be inserted in to Constitution would be:

"In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:

1.There shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;
2.The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
3.The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures."



https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dOM9Cqlr7zc/V3G7e7dlnYI/AAAAAAAAAUM/mPP76K1Qrr49Squ4Z...


You like Danish, no?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 99088
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #26 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 5:45pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 12:13pm:
How come the Abos are allowed to vote in this referendum?, it's about them. It should be left up to the rest of Australia to decide if they get a Voice, or not. The Abos would be totally biased to their own cause, would any of them vote "NO"?. Allowing them to vote would be tantamount to rigging the Referendum






Jacinta Price and Warren Mundine beg to differ, dear. You might say they're the blackface of the no vote.

A bunch of us white fellas plan to vote against these Abos.

You?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 99088
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #27 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 5:48pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 12:32pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 12:13pm:
How come the Abos are allowed to vote in this referendum?, it's about them. It should be left up to the rest of Australia to decide if they get a Voice, or not. The Abos would be totally biased to their own cause, would any of them vote "NO"?. Allowing them to vote would be tantamount to rigging the Referendum






Ha! Good point!

Frodo is an Abo. He MiGHT finally have something relevant to post in this topic.


You were right the first time, dear. It's not up to the Abos. They make up 3% of the population.

We probably have more Greeks.

You?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 32168
Gender: male
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #28 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 7:09pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 4:36pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 1:37pm:
Not everyone old enough to vote is able to vote. The mentally incompetent; the blind; etc., are unable to cast votes. And you cannot get other people to vote for you.


Actually, if you are vision impaired you can have someone help you to cast your vote.  If you have a language difficulty, again, you can have someone help cast your vote.  If you are mentally incapacitated you can have someone else help cast your vote.  Ideally, it would be an election official but it can be, with their permission, a member of your family. The electoral act is fairly liberal and the electoral officials are fairly liberal in it's application.  In their view it is better that someone casts their vote than someone doesn't.

Quote:
I still don't know what the "Voice to parliament" entails. Sounds like apartheid.


Only in your imagination.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



You've given nothing to prove his assumption incorrect.

The exact opposite would be more to the point.
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 32168
Gender: male
Re: Aborigines want voting rules relaxed
Reply #29 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 7:11pm
 
Karnal wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 5:45pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 27th, 2023 at 12:13pm:
How come the Abos are allowed to vote in this referendum?, it's about them. It should be left up to the rest of Australia to decide if they get a Voice, or not. The Abos would be totally biased to their own cause, would any of them vote "NO"?. Allowing them to vote would be tantamount to rigging the Referendum






Jacinta Price and Warren Mundine beg to differ, dear. You might say they're the blackface of the no vote.

A bunch of us white fellas plan to vote against these Abos.

You?


A bunch of SJW softcocks?

I'll be voting with those Abos - Price & Mundine.
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print