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Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology". (Read 3733 times)
iSteveSteve
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #45 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 8:03pm  
LucyFur wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 7:21pm:
iSteveSteve wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 4:16pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 2:46pm:
iSteveSteve wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:50am:
Things that need to be said at the beginning:
-I consider myself to be an independent centrist.
-I do lean more towards right-wing politics, but I have issues with both sides of the political divide.
-While I am an Australian, I have been posting on an Amerikan political website for years, hence the possibility of more Amerikan-style terminology creeping into my posts.
-I intend to create a "Why I have a problem with "Conservative Ideology" sometime down the line.

"Why do I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology?"

I will keep this short, to begin with.
"The collectivist mindset" inherently in that ideology.
"The emphasis on "feelings" rather than critical, rational thinking.

Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.
I guess I will find out here, hopefully.

All ideologies are collective - they're all a low-resolution 'one thing to rule them all' - a final word on the vast territory they purport to cover.

The air is thin in the stratospheric land of ideology - maybe you can visit, but you can't live there.




The right of politics is focused on individuality.
Ppl are encouraged to secure their own financial independence.
Ppl are encouraged to become entrepreneurs.
Small and big businesses are better catered for.




It is unfortunate that people who believe should be leaders are encouraged, and corruption and selfishness flourish. But  that has happened under any regime that allowed private business to exist.



One of the biggest problems I have with the right of politics is its inherent greed.
I was shocked at the findings of the Royal Commission into the banking industry.
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Dnarever
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #46 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 9:19pm  
iSteveSteve wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 8:03pm:
LucyFur wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 7:21pm:
iSteveSteve wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 4:16pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 2:46pm:
iSteveSteve wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:50am:
Things that need to be said at the beginning:
-I consider myself to be an independent centrist.
-I do lean more towards right-wing politics, but I have issues with both sides of the political divide.
-While I am an Australian, I have been posting on an Amerikan political website for years, hence the possibility of more Amerikan-style terminology creeping into my posts.
-I intend to create a "Why I have a problem with "Conservative Ideology" sometime down the line.

"Why do I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology?"

I will keep this short, to begin with.
"The collectivist mindset" inherently in that ideology.
"The emphasis on "feelings" rather than critical, rational thinking.

Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.
I guess I will find out here, hopefully.

All ideologies are collective - they're all a low-resolution 'one thing to rule them all' - a final word on the vast territory they purport to cover.

The air is thin in the stratospheric land of ideology - maybe you can visit, but you can't live there.




The right of politics is focused on individuality.
Ppl are encouraged to secure their own financial independence.
Ppl are encouraged to become entrepreneurs.
Small and big businesses are better catered for.




It is unfortunate that people who believe should be leaders are encouraged, and corruption and selfishness flourish. But  that has happened under any regime that allowed private business to exist.



One of the biggest problems I have with the right of politics is its inherent greed.
I was shocked at the findings of the Royal Commission into the banking industry.


I thought the results were well known and expected, much of it wasn't caught the reality is likely much worse. It cost me a lot of money.
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Dnarever
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #47 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 9:49pm  
Frank wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 6:58pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 6:52pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 2:54pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:58pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:24pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:21pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:15pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.


Oh?? It isn't,  duck?? Progressive centrists? Progressive conservatives? Progressive pea gobbles?



I shouldn't laugh at you but it cannot be helped. You are hopelessly confused. Like a duck on ice.
What a life.



Do not worry Dear Frank - I know you do the very best you can.

It may actually help that you don't know what you are talking about, less damage that way.

So if progressive is not left - what is it?
Centrist? Conservative? Nuffin to do wiv politics? Just progressive with no actual direction, like a duck? Waddling nowhere particular, like you?

What?



Currently most progressives are on the left but not all leftist politicians are progressive - most are not.


Most are but most are not??

That sounds like your very own idea, duck.

Grin Grin


Have you ever tried to fix your comprehension issue?

I will try to explain.

Say there are 90 Progressives in the House. of this say that 80 are Democrat and 10 Republicans. (there are not really 10). So most Progressives are Democrat.

Looking at the Democrats where we have about 80 Progressives but there are say 200 Democrats.

In this case most progressives are Democrat (80 to 10) but most Democrats are not progressive (80 of 200). 

Sorry for not keeping to fingers and toes numbering - my bad.

If you look at the progressive caucus you find about 100 members but at least 20 are not progressive likely many more. So these numbers are somewhat close to reality give or take.


How do you know who is progressive?

What are you progressing TO? What is the goal?




In US politics they run as progressive (some lie about it) for example kyrsten sinema ran as a progressive.

Once elected she took the bribes and became a centrist, you know like voting in line with corporations along side Joe Manchin and co in opposition to her party and leaders supposed position. She then even left the democrats.

The genuine Progressives join the progressive caucus, they vote in line with other progressives on progressive issues.

The corporate democrats undermine their elections and do not fund them. They get the blame for anything that goes wrong. They are mostly ignored by the MSM.

In short it isn't rocket science.

Even you know who some of them are.
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Frank
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #48 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 8:43am  
Dnarever wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 9:49pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 6:58pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 6:52pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 1st, 2023 at 2:54pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:58pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:24pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:21pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:15pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.


Oh?? It isn't,  duck?? Progressive centrists? Progressive conservatives? Progressive pea gobbles?



I shouldn't laugh at you but it cannot be helped. You are hopelessly confused. Like a duck on ice.
What a life.



Do not worry Dear Frank - I know you do the very best you can.

It may actually help that you don't know what you are talking about, less damage that way.

So if progressive is not left - what is it?
Centrist? Conservative? Nuffin to do wiv politics? Just progressive with no actual direction, like a duck? Waddling nowhere particular, like you?

What?



Currently most progressives are on the left but not all leftist politicians are progressive - most are not.


Most are but most are not??

That sounds like your very own idea, duck.

Grin Grin


Have you ever tried to fix your comprehension issue?

I will try to explain.

Say there are 90 Progressives in the House. of this say that 80 are Democrat and 10 Republicans. (there are not really 10). So most Progressives are Democrat.

Looking at the Democrats where we have about 80 Progressives but there are say 200 Democrats.

In this case most progressives are Democrat (80 to 10) but most Democrats are not progressive (80 of 200). 

Sorry for not keeping to fingers and toes numbering - my bad.

If you look at the progressive caucus you find about 100 members but at least 20 are not progressive likely many more. So these numbers are somewhat close to reality give or take.


How do you know who is progressive?

What are you progressing TO? What is the goal?




In US politics they run as progressive (some lie about it) for example kyrsten sinema ran as a progressive.

Once elected she took the bribes and became a centrist, you know like voting in line with corporations along side Joe Manchin and co in opposition to her party and leaders supposed position. She then even left the democrats.

The genuine Progressives join the progressive caucus, they vote in line with other progressives on progressive issues.

The corporate democrats undermine their elections and do not fund them. They get the blame for anything that goes wrong. They are mostly ignored by the MSM.

In short it isn't rocket science.

Even you know who some of them are.



Never mind the US. You are not in the US. You are a progressive here.
Stop dissembling like a progressive.


iSteveSteve wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:50am:
"Why do I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology?"

I will keep this short, to begin with.
"The collectivist mindset" inherently in that ideology.
"The emphasis on "feelings" rather than critical, rational thinking.

Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.
I guess I will find out here, hopefully.
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Dnarever
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #49 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:04am  
Frank wrote on Mar 2nd, 2023 at 8:43am:
Never mind the US. You are not in the US. You are a progressive here.
Stop dissembling like a progressive.


[quote author=istevesteve link=1677541830/0#0 date=1677541830]

"Why do I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology?"

I will keep this short, to begin with.
"The collectivist mindset" inherently in that ideology.
"The emphasis on "feelings" rather than critical, rational thinking.

Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.
I guess I will find out here, hopefully.





I think I clearly showed earlier that Steve's view is not in the ballpark of progressive in his criticism. It looks a lot like he views the term progressive as interchangeable with the left.

Quote:
Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.


Funny that you pick traits synonymous with what is expected from and typical of the right of politics.

The appearance of feelings from the left in reality is emphasised by the complete deficte of feelings from the right. Many see a sensible balance of feelings as a benefit not a weakness.
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issuevoter
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #50 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:48am  
Supporters of "Progressive policies," are not necessarily motivated by ideology. Many follow fashion, others are swayed by socio-economic self-interest.

However, the first problem with progressive ideology is the fatuous assumption that having the greater good as the principal, their ideas must be right. This is attended by the conviction that those who oppose such ideas are not democratic political opponents, but enemies.

An important negative attitude is that towards profit. ABC comedians, who fall into the above groups, seem to think QANTAS's recent positive profit announcement was somehow a bad thing. Their attempt at humour, "ABC for all Australians" was a thinly disguised political critique, and a network attack on our fundamental economic system.
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Frank
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #51 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 11:35am  
Dnarever wrote on Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:04am:
Frank wrote on Mar 2nd, 2023 at 8:43am:
Never mind the US. You are not in the US. You are a progressive here.
Stop dissembling like a progressive.


[quote author=istevesteve link=1677541830/0#0 date=1677541830]

"Why do I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology?"

I will keep this short, to begin with.
"The collectivist mindset" inherently in that ideology.
"The emphasis on "feelings" rather than critical, rational thinking.

Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.
I guess I will find out here, hopefully.





I think I clearly showed earlier that Steve's view is not in the ballpark of progressive in his criticism. It looks a lot like he views the term progressive as interchangeable with the left.

Quote:
Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.


Funny that you pick traits synonymous with what is expected from and typical of the right of politics.

The appearance of feelings from the left in reality is emphasised by the complete deficte of feelings from the right. Many see a sensible balance of feelings as a benefit not a weakness. 

Sooooo....  what's a non-left progressive like today?
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Dnarever
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #52 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 11:46am  
issuevoter wrote on Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:48am:
Supporters of "Progressive policies," are not necessarily motivated by ideology. Many follow fashion, others are swayed by socio-economic self-interest.

However, the first problem with progressive ideology is the fatuous assumption that having the greater good as the principal, their ideas must be right. This is attended by the conviction that those who oppose such ideas are not democratic political opponents, but enemies.

An important negative attitude is that towards profit. ABC comedians, who fall into the above groups, seem to think QANTAS's recent positive profit announcement was somehow a bad thing. Their attempt at humour, "ABC for all Australians" was a thinly disguised political critique, and a network attack on our fundamental economic system.


Quote:
Supporters of "Progressive policies," are not necessarily motivated by ideology. Many follow fashion, others are swayed by socio-economic self-interest.


Yes but even at 85% it craps on the alternative of being locked into corruption.

Quote:
first problem with progressive ideology is the fatuous assumption that having the greater good as the principal, their ideas must be right.


Then you look at it in practise and see that Progressives are the first to consider alternate data and to change their position when they are wrong.

For example look at the Wuhan lab and covid. Many people originally said it had nothing to do with them then the right picked up the idea that the Lab is the source. Many on the corporate left took the opposite position.

The progressive position is that they don't really know but that it does look suspicious, originally they said it likely wasn't related, they reached this conclusion based on the WHO's official position. It was then found that the WHO group that came to this conclusion was stacked with Chinese researchers. Progressives looked at the facts and changed their position.

Your statement is the exact opposite of the truth, there is no political group more willing to admit when they are wrong.
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Frank
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #53 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 11:50am  
So progressive = what ducky likes.

Peas are therefore progressive.
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Dnarever
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #54 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 12:05pm  
Frank wrote on Mar 2nd, 2023 at 11:35am:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:04am:
Frank wrote on Mar 2nd, 2023 at 8:43am:
Never mind the US. You are not in the US. You are a progressive here.
Stop dissembling like a progressive.


[quote author=istevesteve link=1677541830/0#0 date=1677541830]

"Why do I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology?"

I will keep this short, to begin with.
"The collectivist mindset" inherently in that ideology.
"The emphasis on "feelings" rather than critical, rational thinking.

Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.
I guess I will find out here, hopefully.





I think I clearly showed earlier that Steve's view is not in the ballpark of progressive in his criticism. It looks a lot like he views the term progressive as interchangeable with the left.

Quote:
Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.


Funny that you pick traits synonymous with what is expected from and typical of the right of politics.

The appearance of feelings from the left in reality is emphasised by the complete deficte of feelings from the right. Many see a sensible balance of feelings as a benefit not a weakness. 

Sooooo....  what's a non-left progressive like today?



A polar Bear or maybe a Tasmanian tiger.
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iSteveSteve
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #55 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:05pm  
Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 7:58pm:
Half-brain politics used to work when people were relatively uneducated - they used to say that Joh... JOH.. you mark my words... used to speak in half ... you know half sentences... well you know... that's how Queenslunders are... because half a sentence was about the most the average Queenslander could understand at a time.

Those policies... you know... that's how it goes... they are there... and well they exist .... always for the best... the best for Queenslund!  That says it all!!

Umm ... yes, Joh... excuse me SIR Joh.....


Moit, you are showing your age.  Wink
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iSteveSteve
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #56 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:11pm  
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Again you point at the right. Just look at their media beliefs. You see the Rights attitude is that you are with us or against us, A balanced position in the media the right consider to be against them. I don't know why but they have always been like that.

None of these things specifically relate to being progressive in fact they belong at least as much if not more to the right and the corporate left.

Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.


The "right" is "a broad church".
The left has no tolerance for dissent within its ranks. "Collectivism", remember?  Wink

But as I said, I am an independent centrist and see good and bad on either side of the political divide.  Cool
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LucyFur
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #57 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:33pm  
iSteveSteve wrote on Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:05pm:
Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 7:58pm:
Half-brain politics used to work when people were relatively uneducated - they used to say that Joh... JOH.. you mark my words... used to speak in half ... you know half sentences... well you know... that's how Queenslunders are... because half a sentence was about the most the average Queenslander could understand at a time.

Those policies... you know... that's how it goes... they are there... and well they exist .... always for the best... the best for Queenslund!  That says it all!!

Umm ... yes, Joh... excuse me SIR Joh.....


Moit, you are showing your age.  Wink

R u sayin we get to tLK to a dinosaur?
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Jasin
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #58 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:35pm  
Grapps is a Pleisosaur. He likes to stick his neck out occassionally.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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iSteveSteve
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #59 - Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:35pm  
LucyFur wrote on Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:33pm:
iSteveSteve wrote on Mar 2nd, 2023 at 9:05pm:
Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 7:58pm:
Half-brain politics used to work when people were relatively uneducated - they used to say that Joh... JOH.. you mark my words... used to speak in half ... you know half sentences... well you know... that's how Queenslunders are... because half a sentence was about the most the average Queenslander could understand at a time.

Those policies... you know... that's how it goes... they are there... and well they exist .... always for the best... the best for Queenslund!  That says it all!!

Umm ... yes, Joh... excuse me SIR Joh.....


Moit, you are showing your age.  Wink

R u sayin we get to tLK to a dinosaur?


I'm one too.
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