Australian Politics Forum - Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".

iSteveSteve New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 47 Gender:	Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology". Reply #30 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 4:21pm Dnarever wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 2:59pm: What is it about anti corruption that is overly about feeling ? How does that make corrupt politics OK because there are no feelings only cash. Both sides of the political divide are corrupt at times. This is self-evident and indisputable.
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iSteveSteve

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #31 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 4:25pm

Jasin wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 5:34pm:

I'm a Centrist as well. Although I originated from the Conservative Left.
I believe in both the Right and Left working together for a greater good for only a greater good can come of such.

I do not like the Extremists be they Left or Right.
Those tend to move as far from each other to the point they can't see their opposition for who they are and thus think they are the 'only ones' that matter.

I have no time for extremists.

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Dnarever

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #32 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 6:45pm

iSteveSteve wrote on Mar 1^st, 2023 at 4:16pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 2:46pm:

iSteveSteve wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 9:50am:

Things that need to be said at the beginning:
-I consider myself to be an independent centrist.
-I do lean more towards right-wing politics, but I have issues with both sides of the political divide.
-While I am an Australian, I have been posting on an Amerikan political website for years, hence the possibility of more Amerikan-style terminology creeping into my posts.
-I intend to create a "Why I have a problem with "Conservative Ideology" sometime down the line.

"Why do I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology?"

I will keep this short, to begin with.
"The collectivist mindset" inherently in that ideology.
"The emphasis on "feelings" rather than critical, rational thinking.

Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.
I guess I will find out here, hopefully.

All ideologies are collective - they're all a low-resolution 'one thing to rule them all' - a final word on the vast territory they purport to cover.

The air is thin in the stratospheric land of ideology - maybe you can visit, but you can't live there.

The right of politics is focused on individuality.
Ppl are encouraged to secure their own financial independence.
Ppl are encouraged to become entrepreneurs.
Small and big businesses are better catered for.

Ideals of the past. You could not get much further from the current practise of right wing politics.

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LucyFur

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #33 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 6:47pm

Frank wrote on Mar 1^st, 2023 at 10:33am:

Progress or corruption:

men are saying they are *actually* women and, powerful institutions are validating that claim.

Tools for voting. Synonymous with corruption. Some would say you need a doctorate of non-political type to validate that male fish take up the role of females to help their buddy convince the lady he is good in bed by observation, a phenomenon which happens in human beings, mice (through pheromones) too. Furthermore you're only supposed to gain money off your diploma, not power over states.

Fortunately by now we all know that male lions go together in the bush, though some rare cases will deny it. So it is not necessary to be validated by political parties, because political parties have always been more truthful than other institutions. Lips Sealed

Furthermore, we must listen to Meghan Markle, because besides being a celebrity she has broken the royal family vows to none other than involve herself in political propaganda. Her focus is certainly, the people.

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« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2023 at 6:55pm by LucyFur »

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Dnarever

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #34 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 6:52pm

Frank wrote on Mar 1^st, 2023 at 2:54pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 9:58pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 9:24pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 9:21pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 8:44pm:

Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.

Oh?? It isn't, duck?? Progressive centrists? Progressive conservatives? Progressive pea gobbles?

I shouldn't laugh at you but it cannot be helped. You are hopelessly confused. Like a duck on ice.
What a life.

Do not worry Dear Frank - I know you do the very best you can.

It may actually help that you don't know what you are talking about, less damage that way.

So if progressive is not left - what is it?
Centrist? Conservative? Nuffin to do wiv politics? Just progressive with no actual direction, like a duck? Waddling nowhere particular, like you?

What?

Currently most progressives are on the left but not all leftist politicians are progressive - most are not.

Most are but most are not??

That sounds like your very own idea, duck.

Grin

Have you ever tried to fix your comprehension issue?

I will try to explain.

Say there are 90 Progressives in the House. of this say that 80 are Democrat and 10 Republicans. (there are not really 10). So most Progressives are Democrat.

Looking at the Democrats where we have about 80 Progressives but there are say 200 Democrats.

In this case most progressives are Democrat (80 to 10) but most Democrats are not progressive (80 of 200).

Sorry for not keeping to fingers and toes numbering - my bad.

If you look at the progressive caucus you find about 100 members but at least 20 are not progressive likely many more. So these numbers are somewhat close to reality give or take.

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Frank

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #35 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 6:58pm

Dnarever wrote on Mar 1^st, 2023 at 6:52pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 1^st, 2023 at 2:54pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 9:58pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 9:24pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 9:21pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 8:44pm:

Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.

Oh?? It isn't, duck?? Progressive centrists? Progressive conservatives? Progressive pea gobbles?

I shouldn't laugh at you but it cannot be helped. You are hopelessly confused. Like a duck on ice.
What a life.

Do not worry Dear Frank - I know you do the very best you can.

It may actually help that you don't know what you are talking about, less damage that way.

So if progressive is not left - what is it?
Centrist? Conservative? Nuffin to do wiv politics? Just progressive with no actual direction, like a duck? Waddling nowhere particular, like you?

What?

Currently most progressives are on the left but not all leftist politicians are progressive - most are not.

Most are but most are not??

That sounds like your very own idea, duck.

Grin

Have you ever tried to fix your comprehension issue?

I will try to explain.

Say there are 90 Progressives in the House. of this say that 80 are Democrat and 10 Republicans. (there are not really 10). So most Progressives are Democrat.

Looking at the Democrats where we have about 80 Progressives but there are say 200 Democrats.

In this case most progressives are Democrat (80 to 10) but most Democrats are not progressive (80 of 200).

Sorry for not keeping to fingers and toes numbering - my bad.

If you look at the progressive caucus you find about 100 members but at least 20 are not progressive likely many more. So these numbers are somewhat close to reality give or take.

How do you know who is progressive?

What are you progressing TO? What is the goal?

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Dnarever

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #36 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 7:06pm

iSteveSteve wrote on Mar 1^st, 2023 at 4:21pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 2:59pm:

What is it about anti corruption that is overly about feeling ? How does that make corrupt politics OK because there are no feelings only cash.

Both sides of the political divide are corrupt at times.
This is self-evident and indisputable.

At the current time corporate interests have legally bought the vast majority of them. At this time US politicians govern for the benefit of corporate interest. In other words they govern against the best interest of the voters.

At this time the majority of both sides are owned by the same corporate interests and are legally corrupt. They are legally corrupt because the supreme court ruled that it is ok for the corporations to pay the politicians.

The most successful politicians are those who raise the most money (Democrat and Republican) i.e the politicians who take the most corporate donations are the most successful. The corporations do not give donations to politicians who do not make the decisions that they want to be made.

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Jasin

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #37 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 7:11pm

I would say that Boris Johnson the Anglo, Donald Trump the Saxon and Scott Morrison the Protestant were pretty more progressive 'towards Politics' as a priority as the Right.

While Joe Biden the creepiest President, Albanese his leg humping dog and Rishi Sunak the "I'm different" are more progressive 'towards the Media' as a priority as the Left.

So there you have it. Both are very progressive.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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LucyFur

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #38 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 7:21pm

iSteveSteve wrote on Mar 1^st, 2023 at 4:16pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 2:46pm:

iSteveSteve wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 9:50am:

Things that need to be said at the beginning:
-I consider myself to be an independent centrist.
-I do lean more towards right-wing politics, but I have issues with both sides of the political divide.
-While I am an Australian, I have been posting on an Amerikan political website for years, hence the possibility of more Amerikan-style terminology creeping into my posts.
-I intend to create a "Why I have a problem with "Conservative Ideology" sometime down the line.

"Why do I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology?"

I will keep this short, to begin with.
"The collectivist mindset" inherently in that ideology.
"The emphasis on "feelings" rather than critical, rational thinking.

Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.
I guess I will find out here, hopefully.

All ideologies are collective - they're all a low-resolution 'one thing to rule them all' - a final word on the vast territory they purport to cover.

The air is thin in the stratospheric land of ideology - maybe you can visit, but you can't live there.

The right of politics is focused on individuality.
Ppl are encouraged to secure their own financial independence.
Ppl are encouraged to become entrepreneurs.
Small and big businesses are better catered for.

It is unfortunate that people who believe should be leaders are encouraged, and corruption and selfishness flourish. But that has happened under any regime that allowed private business to exist.

"Quote:
race obsession

Do you mean fairness and equality ?"

It's not all rainbows. Can't wait for Steve to explain why this whitewashing of the concept is not fair, to right-wingers.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 56799 Gender:	Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology". Reply #39 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 7:48pm Is Joe Biden's 'Building Back(wards)' to the good old days as his dementia remembers it an influence on Putin to return to the more powerful USSR days of old? Is this progressive?
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iSteveSteve

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #40 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 7:48pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 5:40pm:

iSteveSteve wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 4:52pm:

"Binarism" is another feature I have a major problem with.
"You are with us or against us" mentality.

Can you name an ideology worth being called one that does not bind you to orthodoxy?

Not sure what you mean, but most of the "progressives" on the website I was on had zero tolerance for anyone who wasn't fully committed to "The Narrative".
If you aren't with them, you are a fascist.
Trying to have an intelligent conversation about climate change is virtually impossible there, for example.
Those on the right and centre were more tolerant of different reason-based opinions.

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Frank

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #41 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 7:51pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 5:40pm:

iSteveSteve wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 4:52pm:

"Binarism" is another feature I have a major problem with.
"You are with us or against us" mentality.

Can you name an ideology worth being called one that does not bind you to orthodoxy?

Liberalism. Unorthodox, in its very name.

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Setanta

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #42 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 7:54pm

iSteveSteve wrote on Mar 1^st, 2023 at 7:48pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 5:40pm:

iSteveSteve wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 4:52pm:

"Binarism" is another feature I have a major problem with.
"You are with us or against us" mentality.

Can you name an ideology worth being called one that does not bind you to orthodoxy?

Not sure what you mean, but most of the "progressives" on the website I was on had zero tolerance for anyone who wasn't fully committed to "The Narrative".
If you aren't with them, you are a fascist.
Trying to have an intelligent conversation about climate change is virtually impossible there, for example.
Those on the right and centre were more tolerant of different reason-based opinions.

We have those here except they like "extreme or alt" right rather than nazi but they do that too in a pinch.

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iSteveSteve

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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #43 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 7:54pm

LucyFur wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

I would say I prefer the Centrist set of ideas, but I would think you mean you're not abiding by that but rather are independent in thinking which is the same as Steve. I value the truth as well, above a set of ideas and the lack of abiding by them that usually happens anyway in politics.

I look at every policy independently.
I have no ideological narrative.

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iSteveSteve New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 47 Gender:	Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology". Reply #44 - Mar 1^st, 2023 at 7:57pm Setanta wrote on Mar 1^st, 2023 at 7:54pm: We have those here. Hyperpartisanship on either side is a major problem with politics, unfortunately.
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