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Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology". (Read 3737 times)
MeisterEckhart
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #15 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 5:40pm
 
iSteveSteve wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 4:52pm:
"Binarism" is another feature I have a major problem with.
"You are with us or against us" mentality.

Can you name an ideology worth being called one that does not bind you to orthodoxy?
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LucyFur
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #16 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 6:37pm
 
Jasin wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 5:34pm:
I'm a Centrist as well. Although I originated from the Conservative Left.
I believe in both the Right and Left working together for a greater good for only a greater good can come of such.

I do not like the Extremists be they Left or Right.
Those tend to move as far from each other to the point they can't see their opposition for who they are and thus think they are the 'only ones' that matter.


Exactly that.
Both political divides exist so that they can tell each other when they each screw up.  Grin

Extremism such as communism, nazism seems to not even have anything to do with what they stood up for in the first place on the closer to the middle left-wing/right-wing. It's also forced on the population which I don't believe in because where there is variation you cannot oppress the minority, there must be freedom for people even when they go wrong in terms of thinking, and it is better that they learn from their mistakes and do not get killed for thinking and existing: white supremacy and antisemitism. (But for breathing yes.) It is true that racists abide by the right, particularly the extremist right, but then again, normal left-wing people are more selfish in statistics.

Right extremism like anti-immigration are not sustainable, people like to have relatives join them sometimes, and for a small population like AUS it wouldn't be an issue, US is a disaster internally, so sewing its borders up would be useless. If either would move to the moon, I betcha people would still want to leave, as well as want to come to live there, it wouldn't make up a crisis situation. Trump should of focused on ruining the false popularity of the US because everybody thinks it's the land of freedom and where dreams come true but it's the poo hole of the world, being worse in some instances than other countries considered such, with the population being not only uneducated regardless of holding the most data and studies online in comprehensive form but also with people who are judgeful and a corrupt system where lying gets you further in life and rich, even in the acting career.

Milleniarian conspiracies that the second coming of Jesus is to be expected, when every year they announced it, and where the proof for it as well as religion itself is lacking, as religious extremism. Or the New World Qrder panic propaganda about Jews, Illuminati and the silly Freemasons taking over the world with communist regimes, another form of right-wing extremism that resides in emotionalism and what if it exists, belief based on nothing just like religion.



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LucyFur
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #17 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 6:44pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 12:54pm:
Great stuff Steve, I'm much the same myself, centrist, but varying according to economic conditions

I've been a union co-delegate, and I've been a sole-trader. Both sides gave me valuable insight into labour and capital. I wasn't born just a lefty or just a righty

My mum was a Labor type person, and my dad was a Liberal voter all his life. I got to understand each of their political "stories", so my politics is a blend of both, but never taking sides

Therefore, I've never voted for the divisive major parties, they use only half their brains. The Laborites use one half, and the Liberals use the other half, both never using their whole brains

This "half brain" philosophy may have worked in the past, when constituents were ignorant, dumb and politically aggressive, but it's now past it's use-by date, evidenced by new discoveries in psychology that are surpassing old ways of conditioning of the mind, different voting patterns, and lower primary votes for the Lib and Lab parties

The original intent of "Progressive" ideology has been twisted by every political man and his dog, and in Australia, the two major parties have their own unique take on it, the ascent of homosexuality and women wearing the pants, the exact opposite to Islam, and how many muslims and mosques are there in Australia?, with more coming in. So you can see how the half brain works, it doesn't work, it only promotes conflict. "Conflict is healthy for democracy" they say, well, not any longer

The original intent of Progressivism was far more broad-ranging than what the "half brain" Libs and Labs will ever understand or apply


I would say I prefer the Centrist set of ideas, but I would think you mean you're not abiding by that but rather are independent in thinking which is the same as Steve. I value the truth as well, above a set of ideas and the lack of abiding by them that usually happens anyway in politics.
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Jasin
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #18 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 7:06pm
 
When it comes to Politics - the Left are really the anti-Political.
In that they belong to the Big Brother (1984) Media Team that is Europe, Africa, Asia and... Oceania.
The New World Order is more orthodox to Politics and that is where the Right fits right in with their Team being N.America, S.America, Sahul (Aust, Melanesia) and the Middle-East.

Currently the Left (Media induced Politics) are in Power in N.America (hence it's involvement in European affairs aka Ukraine), Sahul (Aust) and the UK (which is more Political than Germany (already defaulted), France and Italy.

Religion could be said that what the Germans did to the Jews (Because Jesus's last words to his Jewish people when they had him crucified was "Wait till me little brother Hitler gets yas ya bastards! Angry) - the Moslems will soon do to the French (which is why Britain has 'stepped back' via Brexit).
When France burns like a Notre Dame Cathedral - the Moslems will get their 'Messiah' (to offset their Prophet Mohommed, like the Prophet Hitler offset the Messiah Jesus) and they will lay down their arms finally and end their existence as a military 'Empire' of Islam.
Then it will be Italy's turn - where the Mafia and all that Vatican Gold will genocide the now 'unarmed' Moslems wandering like the Jews of old (who are now 'militarised').
They will pray to Allah for help - but only the New Empire of Israel will come to their aid and destroy the Mafia-Vatican nasties.
Finally it will be Britain's turn, as Germany, France and Italy have given up their Political/Religious/Military empowerments to return to their 'true European' ways (Eurovision! Cheesy). But Britain will now have to carry it's Union Jack Cross before a 'UNITED' Islam and Israel (known as Istari: I-star-I... the Star between the Two Pillars of Heaven) and Britain will be utterly destroyed 'crucified' to die for the sins of its 'successful' Colonies, where as Germany, France and Italy could not and thus why their colonies failed.

It's all just a 'process' of long ago eating from the Tree of Knowledge from the Middle-East, but it was the British via it's Colonies that ate from the Tree of Life (the New Worlds).

It's kinda complicated, but in a way pretty simple. We live in a very 'finite' small little world and there is only a limited amount of outcomes the world can adjust to.

The Right and Left are in essence via the Big Brother Media side and the NWO side - no different than just both hemispheres of the human mind.

Don't worry. All will not be lost in World War 3.
We still got a few more to go yet. Wink

This is progress.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Grappler Racist Filth
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #19 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 7:58pm
 
Half-brain politics used to work when people were relatively uneducated - they used to say that Joh... JOH.. you mark my words... used to speak in half ... you know half sentences... well you know... that's how Queenslunders are... because half a sentence was about the most the average Queenslander could understand at a time.

Those policies... you know... that's how it goes... they are there... and well they exist .... always for the best... the best for Queenslund!  That says it all!!

Umm ... yes, Joh... excuse me SIR Joh.....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Dnarever
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #20 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:44pm
 
iSteveSteve wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 4:52pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 2:34pm:
Steve when you say progressive what are you referring to?

The US progressive anti corruption in politics and govern for the benefit of the people instead of corporate America type of Progressivism or something more associated with the corporate democrats who are just as corrupt as the Republicans ?

Policy such as $15 minimum wage, Fixing Health care, Education costs, sensible gun control etc.


The majority of "Progressives" I have been communicating with emphasise things such as "Universal Health Care", wealth distribution, and social justice, particularly for the LGBQT+ community.
To be clear, I don't have a problem with this.

I do have a problem with such things as "Cancel Culture", Groupthink, "feelings being more important than the facts", race obsession, and misrepresentation designed to shut down discussing anything they disagree with.
"Binarism" is another feature I have a major problem with.
"You are with us or against us" mentality.




Quote:
"Cancel Culture"
- A game of the right - little to no meaning in terms of progressive beliefs.


Quote:
"feelings being more important than the facts"


The left in politics tend to have feeling where the right tend to lack them in many cases almost completely. Progressives are no more impacted than anyone operating in a normal range. I see the right excluding feelings often just  another way of saying morals is a bigger issue. Progressive policy tends to be well balanced and well thought out. It is true that it is mostly more targeted to help people than big business.

Quote:
race obsession


Do you mean fairness and equality ?

Quote:
misrepresentation designed to shut down discussing anything they disagree with.


See this an awful lot in the right. I don't see it as much with genuine progressives, they will very often have the answers on topic..

Quote:
"Binarism"
You mean the right - the Male Female Binary is their game as is the black / white binary ?

Quote:
"You are with us or against us" mentality.


Again you point at the right. Just look at their media beliefs. You see the Rights attitude is that you are with us or against us, A balanced position in the media the right consider to be against them. I don't know why but they have always been like that.

None of these things specifically relate to being progressive in fact they belong at least as much if not more to the right and the corporate left.

Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:49pm by Dnarever »  
 
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Frank
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #21 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:15pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.


Oh?? It isn't,  duck?? Progressive centrists? Progressive conservatives? Progressive pea gobbles?



I shouldn't laugh at you but it cannot be helped. You are hopelessly confused. Like a duck on ice.
What a life.

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Dnarever
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #22 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:21pm
 
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:15pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.


Oh?? It isn't,  duck?? Progressive centrists? Progressive conservatives? Progressive pea gobbles?



I shouldn't laugh at you but it cannot be helped. You are hopelessly confused. Like a duck on ice.
What a life.



Do not worry Dear Frank - I know you do the very best you can.

It may actually help that you don't know what you are talking about, less damage that way.
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Frank
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #23 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:24pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:21pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:15pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.


Oh?? It isn't,  duck?? Progressive centrists? Progressive conservatives? Progressive pea gobbles?



I shouldn't laugh at you but it cannot be helped. You are hopelessly confused. Like a duck on ice.
What a life.



Do not worry Dear Frank - I know you do the very best you can.

It may actually help that you don't know what you are talking about, less damage that way.

So if progressive is not left - what is it?
Centrist? Conservative? Nuffin to do wiv politics? Just progressive with no actual direction, like a duck? Waddling nowhere particular, like you?

What?

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Frank
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #24 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:55pm
 
https://mobile.twitter.com/ReasonedUK/status/1630308200451801088

The Progressive: a Bbwianesque, totally confused, incoherent twat.
A duck.




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Dnarever
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #25 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:58pm
 
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:24pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:21pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:15pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.


Oh?? It isn't,  duck?? Progressive centrists? Progressive conservatives? Progressive pea gobbles?



I shouldn't laugh at you but it cannot be helped. You are hopelessly confused. Like a duck on ice.
What a life.



Do not worry Dear Frank - I know you do the very best you can.

It may actually help that you don't know what you are talking about, less damage that way.

So if progressive is not left - what is it?
Centrist? Conservative? Nuffin to do wiv politics? Just progressive with no actual direction, like a duck? Waddling nowhere particular, like you?

What?



Currently most progressives are on the left but not all leftist politicians are progressive - most are not.

Interesting that it wasn't always the case. Interesting that Lincoln and Roosevelt were both progressives.

The Lincoln–Roosevelt League was a group of republican progressives.

In current terms the Democrats have a progressive caucus. Interesting anyone can join so the result is that they have many members who are not progressive.

Moderate Democrats is a common name for Democrats who are not progressive - they are also not moderate. They are mostly corporate democrats. They take business bribes and are as legally corrupt as the vast majority of republicans. Progressives do not take corporate donations / bribes.

Corporate democrats include all of the leadership. Biden Harris Jeffries, Nancy etc. None of these are progressive. In corporate terms this group will support virtually all the same policies as the Republicans - they are both legally paid, owned and do the bidding of about the same business groups.

The major focus of Progressives is to remove corruption from politics. Give the power back to the people and take it away from the corporations that hold it today.

I don't see why anyone would prefer corporate corruption to Progressive policy for the benefit of the people.

In short it is the progressives who are really genuinely trying to fight against the swamp. It was never the fake guy from before.
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2023 at 10:12pm by Dnarever »  
 
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Frank
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #26 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 10:01am
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:58pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:24pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:21pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:15pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.


Oh?? It isn't,  duck?? Progressive centrists? Progressive conservatives? Progressive pea gobbles?



I shouldn't laugh at you but it cannot be helped. You are hopelessly confused. Like a duck on ice.
What a life.



Do not worry Dear Frank - I know you do the very best you can.

It may actually help that you don't know what you are talking about, less damage that way.

So if progressive is not left - what is it?
Centrist? Conservative? Nuffin to do wiv politics? Just progressive with no actual direction, like a duck? Waddling nowhere particular, like you?

What?



Currently most progressives are on the left but not all leftist politicians are progressive - most are not.

Interesting that it wasn't always the case. Interesting that Lincoln and Roosevelt were both progressives.

The Lincoln–Roosevelt League was a group of republican progressives.

In current terms the Democrats have a progressive caucus. Interesting anyone can join so the result is that they have many members who are not progressive.

Moderate Democrats is a common name for Democrats who are not progressive - they are also not moderate. They are mostly corporate democrats. They take business bribes and are as legally corrupt as the vast majority of republicans. Progressives do not take corporate donations / bribes.

Corporate democrats include all of the leadership. Biden Harris Jeffries, Nancy etc. None of these are progressive. In corporate terms this group will support virtually all the same policies as the Republicans - they are both legally paid, owned and do the bidding of about the same business groups.

The major focus of Progressives is to remove corruption from politics. Give the power back to the people and take it away from the corporations that hold it today.

I don't see why anyone would prefer corporate corruption to Progressive policy for the benefit of the people.

In short it is the progressives who are really genuinely trying to fight against the swamp. It was never the fake guy from before.


So Robespierre w as a progressive by your reckoning.

They called him The Incorruptible.
Guillotined thousands before he was guillotined himself.  Progress, that.


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Frank
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #27 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 10:33am
 
Progress or corruption:

men are saying they are *actually* women and, powerful institutions are validating that claim.



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Frank
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #28 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 2:54pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:58pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:24pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:21pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:15pm:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:44pm:
Are you sure that you actually mean progressive ? A lot of the right see progressive as an interchangeable term for the left - its not.


Oh?? It isn't,  duck?? Progressive centrists? Progressive conservatives? Progressive pea gobbles?



I shouldn't laugh at you but it cannot be helped. You are hopelessly confused. Like a duck on ice.
What a life.



Do not worry Dear Frank - I know you do the very best you can.

It may actually help that you don't know what you are talking about, less damage that way.

So if progressive is not left - what is it?
Centrist? Conservative? Nuffin to do wiv politics? Just progressive with no actual direction, like a duck? Waddling nowhere particular, like you?

What?



Currently most progressives are on the left but not all leftist politicians are progressive - most are not.


Most are but most are not??

That sounds like your very own idea, duck.

Grin Grin
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iSteveSteve
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Re: Why I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology".
Reply #29 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 4:16pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 2:46pm:
iSteveSteve wrote on Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:50am:
Things that need to be said at the beginning:
-I consider myself to be an independent centrist.
-I do lean more towards right-wing politics, but I have issues with both sides of the political divide.
-While I am an Australian, I have been posting on an Amerikan political website for years, hence the possibility of more Amerikan-style terminology creeping into my posts.
-I intend to create a "Why I have a problem with "Conservative Ideology" sometime down the line.

"Why do I have a problem with "Progressive Ideology?"

I will keep this short, to begin with.
"The collectivist mindset" inherently in that ideology.
"The emphasis on "feelings" rather than critical, rational thinking.

Perhaps I mixed with an unfortunate left-wing group that lacked integrity and respect for the Truth.
I guess I will find out here, hopefully.

All ideologies are collective - they're all a low-resolution 'one thing to rule them all' - a final word on the vast territory they purport to cover.

The air is thin in the stratospheric land of ideology - maybe you can visit, but you can't live there.




The right of politics is focused on individuality.
Ppl are encouraged to secure their own financial independence.
Ppl are encouraged to become entrepreneurs.
Small and big businesses are better catered for.



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