Australian Politics Forum - Police 'executed' in Qld

Gnads

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Re: Police 'executed' in Qld
Reply #450 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:00am

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 3:03pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 2:53pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 2:26pm:

The picture I'm getting is that being a police officer isn't as dangerous as I thought it was. Look where they are....at the very bottom of that list.

That can't be right....can it?

If it is right then perhaps the current police workplace safety protocols which are in place could explain why the figures are lower than we think....or being made to think.

Police would come under "Law Enforcement", which obviously isn't in that list Lisa

Ok. Well I've just located this document. It kinda verifies my suspicions ... well Aussie's too in that it's not AS dangerous as we think. Although .... the issue of suicide is still bothering me.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10345329.2020.1784502?journalCode=rc...

👆 Policing is considered one of the most dangerous and stressful occupations. The role and duties of officers mean that they are more likely to encounter not only accidents, but also assaults. Furthermore, the physical demands and occupational stresses of the job mean that officers are at risk of medical conditions that cause strain on the body such as heart attacks.

This paper examines the current nature of police officer fatalities in Australia. In turn, this paper aims to identify strategies to prevent police fatalities. To do this, the study examined all police officer deaths in Australia between 2002 and 2019 (n = 39). Results revealed three main typologies of police fatalities in Australia: accidents, assaults and health-related fatalities. Accidents accounted for the largest proportion of fatalities, followed by assaults and health fatalities.

Furthermore, the results showed a significant decrease in the number of police fatalities post 2006. These results are discussed in terms of changes to policing policies and practices that may have influenced this decline. Overall, these findings provided valuable insights into the current nature of police fatalities.

These findings have implications for policing authorities in implementing prevention strategies to reduce and prevent officer deaths.

Significant decrease in Police fatalities since 2006?

Could that be because proportionally we actually have less Police?

I saw a person tracking the movements of their stolen Land Cruiser ute for the past 2 weeks- west of Toowoomba in towns near where the shootings just occurred ... Chinchilla & Dalby ... they even had service station cctv footage...the thieves were bold as brass - hadn't even changed the number plates

it was reported to Police & the owner was advised the Police didn't have the resources(man power) to apprehend these thieves....

yet 4 coppers go to a property on a missing persons & then 3hrs 42mins later a 13/16 man special emergency response team arrive in an armour plated Bear Cat vehicle to shoot it out with the Train nutters shooting them dead by 10.30pm.

Mind you they didn't even check on the neighbour laying in the road to see if he was still alive.

Lack of resources ey?

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33211 Gender:	Re: Police 'executed' in Qld Reply #451 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:00am <* *>
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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33211 Gender:	Re: Police 'executed' in Qld Reply #452 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:04am Bobby. wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 4:16pm: Teary speeches in parliament today about it but no call for an independent Federal inquiry. There will be an investigation & a coronial enquiry ... it's mandatory.
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Gnads

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Re: Police 'executed' in Qld
Reply #453 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:20am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 11:05pm:

.308 covers a lot of ground.... I was certain someone said semi-auto.... anything from a Belgian ten shot NATO round or even a bolt action or M-14 or so.

They sure hit those first two cops hard to bring them down.

Still the question is why.... are people that mad on drugs?

Don't mind the M-14 myself... not on full auto... but I'm a single shot man anyway ....

There were 1,000s of the Chinese SKS 7.62 cal semi autos for sale in the 80's early 90's.

Bet there's still some of them floating around.

1 high calibre, 2 x .22s & a shotgun .... sort of doesn't fit the description of the fire power & how many bullets were flying about.

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ProudKangaroo

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Re: Police 'executed' in Qld
Reply #454 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:43am

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 7:28pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 3:35pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 2:26pm:

The picture I'm getting is that being a police officer isn't as dangerous as I thought it was. Look where they are....at the very bottom of that list.

That can't be right....can it?

If it is right then perhaps the current police workplace safety protocols which are in place could explain why the figures are lower than we think....or being made to think.

It's a different work environment.
Most people are compliant with cops.

The danger arises quickly with coppers, and it's always different.
There is no time to fill out risk assessments. That's all done on the fly. That's the training they lack imo, but they're lucky in this country, they don't really need hard core defence training.... Yet.

Dangers on construction sites can be identified and tend to be reoccurring dangers.
If something changes, we sit down and review safe work methods and job safety analyses, we toolbox (talk in a group) about the work to be carried out. We use what they call a risk matrix. What that is is a series of numbers and letters on a graph. It is used for every step of the job to be carried out.
If you end up in the red section.... Rethink your procedures to work the risk down lower. It can be done 99% of the time.
When we're happy and in the green section of the matrix, we all sign on to say we agree to follow the steps and procedures as per the toolbox discussion.
If foelr some reason the task changes, we have time to stop and reassess the situation and again, work the risk to as low as possible.
This all takes time.

If you've got 5.56mm NATO rounds flying around you at random, time is life or death. You've got to act quickly while trying to keep as safe as possible.

Top post there!

You're right.

I'm now left wondering if there's such a thing as a "safe" job nowadays.

You never know when you will encounter some moron who has been radicalised online who might get triggered in the real world and take it out on you...

Anything customer-facing has this undercurrent of danger ever present.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Police 'executed' in Qld
Reply #455 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 10:06am

Gnads wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:20am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 11:05pm:

.308 covers a lot of ground.... I was certain someone said semi-auto.... anything from a Belgian ten shot NATO round or even a bolt action or M-14 or so.

They sure hit those first two cops hard to bring them down.

Still the question is why.... are people that mad on drugs?

Don't mind the M-14 myself... not on full auto... but I'm a single shot man anyway ....

There were 1,000s of the Chinese SKS 7.62 cal semi autos for sale in the 80's early 90's.

Bet there's still some of them floating around.

1 high calibre, 2 x .22s & a shotgun .... sort of doesn't fit the description of the fire power & how many bullets were flying about.

My thoughts, too. The SKS etc is a shorter round but still good for 200m or so.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Police 'executed' in Qld
Reply #456 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 10:34am

ProudKangaroo wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:43am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 7:28pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 3:35pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 2:26pm:

The picture I'm getting is that being a police officer isn't as dangerous as I thought it was. Look where they are....at the very bottom of that list.

That can't be right....can it?

If it is right then perhaps the current police workplace safety protocols which are in place could explain why the figures are lower than we think....or being made to think.

It's a different work environment.
Most people are compliant with cops.

The danger arises quickly with coppers, and it's always different.
There is no time to fill out risk assessments. That's all done on the fly. That's the training they lack imo, but they're lucky in this country, they don't really need hard core defence training.... Yet.

Dangers on construction sites can be identified and tend to be reoccurring dangers.
If something changes, we sit down and review safe work methods and job safety analyses, we toolbox (talk in a group) about the work to be carried out. We use what they call a risk matrix. What that is is a series of numbers and letters on a graph. It is used for every step of the job to be carried out.
If you end up in the red section.... Rethink your procedures to work the risk down lower. It can be done 99% of the time.
When we're happy and in the green section of the matrix, we all sign on to say we agree to follow the steps and procedures as per the toolbox discussion.
If foelr some reason the task changes, we have time to stop and reassess the situation and again, work the risk to as low as possible.
This all takes time.

If you've got 5.56mm NATO rounds flying around you at random, time is life or death. You've got to act quickly while trying to keep as safe as possible.

Top post there!

You're right.

I'm now left wondering if there's such a thing as a "safe" job nowadays.

You never know when you will encounter some moron who has been radicalised online who might get triggered in the real world and take it out on you...

Anything customer-facing has this undercurrent of danger ever present.

👆 This post nails something we've yet to name in this topic : the risk of aggression in the workplace.

Quick anecdote : one of my cousins who's a doctor experienced this whilst working a casual shift in Emergency. The POS who turned up (handcuffed mind you and held by 2 police officers the size of front rowers) was out of control thanks to crystal meth.

It all happened quickly but in the space of a minute the POS had bitten both officers and had spat on my cousin.

Long story short .... all 3 professionals had to go on sick leave and stress leave as the POS was HIV positive. Incessant testing every week plus professional counselling plus time off work and ultimately it was the tax payer who paid for it all. And I'm not just referring to the POS who enjoyed free bed and breakfast in jail.

AGGRESSION ----> depression and/or anxiety and/or fear. Even suicide.

Drugs are a significant factor in triggering AGGRESSION. Do not take drugs! Stay away from those bastard things!

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Bias_2012 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10766 Gender:	Re: Police 'executed' in Qld - timeline of events Reply #457 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 11:18am Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 8:15am: Here : https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-15/qld-police-shooting-offenders-nathaniel-g... Yeah lots of red flags in there
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Aussie

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Re: Police 'executed' in Qld
Reply #458 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 1:01pm

Gnads wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 9:00am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 3:03pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 2:53pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 2:26pm:

The picture I'm getting is that being a police officer isn't as dangerous as I thought it was. Look where they are....at the very bottom of that list.

That can't be right....can it?

If it is right then perhaps the current police workplace safety protocols which are in place could explain why the figures are lower than we think....or being made to think.

Police would come under "Law Enforcement", which obviously isn't in that list Lisa

Ok. Well I've just located this document. It kinda verifies my suspicions ... well Aussie's too in that it's not AS dangerous as we think. Although .... the issue of suicide is still bothering me.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10345329.2020.1784502?journalCode=rc...

👆 Policing is considered one of the most dangerous and stressful occupations. The role and duties of officers mean that they are more likely to encounter not only accidents, but also assaults. Furthermore, the physical demands and occupational stresses of the job mean that officers are at risk of medical conditions that cause strain on the body such as heart attacks.

This paper examines the current nature of police officer fatalities in Australia. In turn, this paper aims to identify strategies to prevent police fatalities. To do this, the study examined all police officer deaths in Australia between 2002 and 2019 (n = 39). Results revealed three main typologies of police fatalities in Australia: accidents, assaults and health-related fatalities. Accidents accounted for the largest proportion of fatalities, followed by assaults and health fatalities.

Furthermore, the results showed a significant decrease in the number of police fatalities post 2006. These results are discussed in terms of changes to policing policies and practices that may have influenced this decline. Overall, these findings provided valuable insights into the current nature of police fatalities.

These findings have implications for policing authorities in implementing prevention strategies to reduce and prevent officer deaths.

Significant decrease in Police fatalities since 2006?

Could that be because proportionally we actually have less Police?

I saw a person tracking the movements of their stolen Land Cruiser ute for the past 2 weeks- west of Toowoomba in towns near where the shootings just occurred ... Chinchilla & Dalby ... they even had service station cctv footage...the thieves were bold as brass - hadn't even changed the number plates

it was reported to Police & the owner was advised the Police didn't have the resources(man power) to apprehend these thieves....

yet 4 coppers go to a property on a missing persons & then 3hrs 42mins later a 13/16 man special emergency response team arrive in an armour plated Bear Cat vehicle to shoot it out with the Train nutters shooting them dead by 10.30pm.

Mind you they didn't even check on the neighbour laying in the road to see if he was still alive.

Lack of resources ey?

Do I detect a dose of well overdue cynicism there Gnads? Is the penny dropping?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Police 'executed' in Qld - timeline of events
Reply #459 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:01pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 11:18am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 8:15am:

Here :

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-15/qld-police-shooting-offenders-nathaniel-g...

Yeah lots of red flags in there

Indeed.

'Baptist Church' and 'Anti-vaxxers' being the two big ones.

Serious question: has Sir lasnail made any posts since this happened, or has he mysteriously disappeared?

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 90014 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Police 'executed' in Qld Reply #460 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:13pm We're beginning to hear the Usual Suspect stories.... the woman was under the control of a controlling bloke... the blokes have history of some weird stuff... I'll wait this one out...... something fishy ................. guess that's the end of the start of the Race War....
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 151130 Gender:	Re: Police 'executed' in Qld Reply #461 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:14pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:13pm: We're beginning to hear the Usual Suspect stories.... .... Yep. Baptist Church. Anti-vaxxers. The warning signs were there. Has anyone seen Sir lastnail?
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Gnads

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Re: Police 'executed' in Qld - timeline of events
Reply #462 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:21pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:01pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 11:18am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 8:15am:

Here :

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-15/qld-police-shooting-offenders-nathaniel-g...

Yeah lots of red flags in there

Indeed.

'Baptist Church' and 'Anti-vaxxers' being the two big ones.

Serious question: has Sir lasnail made any posts since this happened, or has he mysteriously disappeared?

Who's from the Baptist Church ... wasn't the brothers.

Maybe the wife Stacey originally before she married Nathaniel Train.

This how The Brisbane Times reported some of the leadup.

Quote:

Conspiracy theorist Gareth Train bombarded his younger brother Nathaniel’s wife with threatening and vicious messages after she lodged a missing person’s report with NSW Police out of concern for her estranged husband’s welfare.

So Stacey lodged the Missing Persons Report.

Quote:

While working as a primary school principal in north-west NSW, Train had refused to get a mandatory COVID-19 vaccination, the teacher said. His sister-in-law Stacey, whom he had previously been married to, was a teacher in Queensland, also refused to be vaccinated.

Train moved to the north-west NSW town of Walgett from Queensland when he was appointed principal of the town’s primary school in mid-2020, but left after he suffered a heart attack in August 2021. His wife also worked at the school.

When she raised the alarm with police, Walgett officers sent the request for a welfare check directly to Darling Downs police station. When four police arrived at the remote home Gareth Train shared with his wife Stacey, Nathaniel was there too.

Walgett Police? She worked at Walgett ... I don't think so ....

the missing persons report was supposed to be from Dubbo Shocked

?????

And there's no such place as Darling Downs Police Station.

The 4 coppers sent came from Tara Police Station.

You can't believe anything reported in these papers today. The Journos are hopeless.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Police 'executed' in Qld
Reply #463 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:35pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:14pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:13pm:

We're beginning to hear the Usual Suspect stories.... ....

Yep.

Baptist Church.

Anti-vaxxers.

The warning signs were there.

Has anyone seen Sir lastnail? Undecided

WTF??

Baptist Church? You find being Baptist a red flag?

Never Muslims....but Baptists???

You want to have another think about that Greg?

Note to everyone else : Baptists are like Presbyterians and Methodists....pretty much like Anglicans. Both brothers who became murderers were problem kids and rebels who left the Baptist Church. Their parents and 2 other siblings remained in the Baptist Church.

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Captain Caveman

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Re: Police 'executed' in Qld
Reply #464 - Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:38pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 7:18am:

Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 5:25am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 10:23pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 15^th, 2022 at 10:09pm:

"shotgun a 30-06 rifle and 2x .22 rifles"

Hardly enough to start a war.... but enough to kill two cops and wound a third in an ambush....

I think the neighbor was shot with 30-06 being a single shot kill reports say shotgun was used for final shots on police.

I doubt the police were shot with 30-06 it has longer case than .308 firing same size projectiles.

ICE makes people go batshit crazy which might explain why there was no escape plan.

It's a little scary how many ICE addicts are running around with illegal guns.

And no amount of gun reform laws are going to change that fact.

We as humans need to stop picking on the honest citizens and clean up the filth.

Just wondering if the illegal firearms trading and ownership issue could be better managed with a much harsher jail sentence. What do you guys reckon?

Won't deter them imo, rather it will just congest jails with reformed addicts that most likely will reoffend if they haven't had their psychological outlook on life changed.

They just do not care to begin with, that's the problem.
Meth heads aren't social users, they're immunity to the drug is building with every puff.
It starts out socially, but the user is already in a state of poor mental health, so the continued use just increases in an effort to keep that high going.
That's when the problems start big time.

We need food and agriculture here in this country.
The gov would be better off building farms up and reform them that way.
Give them a direction and purpose in life. Some responsibilities.
The nice human they once were is still inside them. The trick is getting that back out of them and keeping it on the surface.
Spend 5yrs out west working the land, and I don't mean in an air conditioned John Deer, I mean physical Labor. You plow that land with a rotory hoe. Dig holes by hand. Mix concrete by hand. Hard work that has great personal satisfaction when completed.
As they're working they're also being reprogrammed through positive contact with everyone around them.
Most of them would probably hang around. It's better than the streets.
That would be better than locking them up just to have them relapse once released.

You also gotta take down the supply network.
The cooks.
The financiers.
The people that aren't using the drug but making more money than speed cameras out of the drug.
They're the ones you gotta lock away and turf the key into the ocean.
The indo president had the right idea for those people.
Rid the world of them all together.

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« Last Edit: Dec 16^th, 2022 at 2:46pm by Captain Caveman »

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