Australian Politics Forum - World cup soccer on now.

Dnarever

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Re: World cup soccer on now.
Reply #195 - Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:08pm

Jasin wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 9:36pm:

Argentina shouldn't be hard for the others to beat. They're just a 'one-man' side in a 'team' sport. You only have to deal with Messi. Australia didn't achieve that.

Tell that to Maradona, Pele' or Ronaldo etc. If he is as good it seems could be the case we may find that nobody handles him or they leave someone else open in trying.

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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 25086 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: World cup soccer on now. Reply #196 - Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:12pm Redmond Neck wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 12:58pm: Silly bloody game anyway! I like the game where one bloke shoves two blokes heads up three blokes arses! I think that is the after party of the Sydney Mardi Gras.
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Jasin

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Re: World cup soccer on now.
Reply #197 - Dec 5^th, 2022 at 6:27am

Dnarever wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:08pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 9:36pm:

Argentina shouldn't be hard for the others to beat. They're just a 'one-man' side in a 'team' sport. You only have to deal with Messi. Australia didn't achieve that.

Tell that to Maradona, Pele' or Ronaldo etc. If he is as good it seems could be the case we may find that nobody handles him or they leave someone else open in trying.

The most successful teams in Team Sports are teams that play as a synchonised 'unit' - together.
Teams that have the above average player like Pele, Maradonna, Messi, etc - well they will always be 2nd Best.

The best example is Jonah Lomu and the All Blacks in Rugby. The Springboks and French knew they only had to play against 'ONE' player in a sport that demands 'a team' effort.
So to is Argentina and it has shown in the past, that teams who keep Messi under control, basically keep the whole Argentinian team under control and win.
Australia did not do that. They let Messi do what he liked. They did not suppress him in anyway. Instead - they worshipped his 'God-like' status and ego. They paid attention to him in all the wrong ways and 'paid' for it.

That's how you win against teams with those 'singularity' superstar 'individual' players in a ...TEAM SPORT.

Comprendo? Huh

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Dnarever

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Re: World cup soccer on now.
Reply #198 - Dec 5^th, 2022 at 8:40am

Jasin wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 6:27am:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:08pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 9:36pm:

Argentina shouldn't be hard for the others to beat. They're just a 'one-man' side in a 'team' sport. You only have to deal with Messi. Australia didn't achieve that.

Tell that to Maradona, Pele' or Ronaldo etc. If he is as good it seems could be the case we may find that nobody handles him or they leave someone else open in trying.

The most successful teams in Team Sports are teams that play as a synchonised 'unit' - together.
Teams that have the above average player like Pele, Maradonna, Messi, etc - well they will always be 2nd Best.

The best example is Jonah Lomu and the All Blacks in Rugby. The Springboks and French knew they only had to play against 'ONE' player in a sport that demands 'a team' effort.
So to is Argentina and it has shown in the past, that teams who keep Messi under control, basically keep the whole Argentinian team under control and win.
Australia did not do that. They let Messi do what he liked. They did not suppress him in anyway. Instead - they worshipped his 'God-like' status and ego. They paid attention to him in all the wrong ways and 'paid' for it.

That's how you win against teams with those 'singularity' superstar 'individual' players in a ...TEAM SPORT.

Comprendo? Huh

The facts very clearly do not support your view.

Pele' won 3 world cups played in 4 world cup finals.
Maradona won a World cup.
Ronaldo won 2 world cups.

The great players tend to be the leading light in great teams.

When the best teams meet the team with the outstanding player invariably has the edge.

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Jasin

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Re: World cup soccer on now.
Reply #199 - Dec 5^th, 2022 at 10:27am

Dnarever wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 8:40am:

Jasin wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 6:27am:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:08pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 9:36pm:

Argentina shouldn't be hard for the others to beat. They're just a 'one-man' side in a 'team' sport. You only have to deal with Messi. Australia didn't achieve that.

Tell that to Maradona, Pele' or Ronaldo etc. If he is as good it seems could be the case we may find that nobody handles him or they leave someone else open in trying.

The most successful teams in Team Sports are teams that play as a synchonised 'unit' - together.
Teams that have the above average player like Pele, Maradonna, Messi, etc - well they will always be 2nd Best.

The best example is Jonah Lomu and the All Blacks in Rugby. The Springboks and French knew they only had to play against 'ONE' player in a sport that demands 'a team' effort.
So to is Argentina and it has shown in the past, that teams who keep Messi under control, basically keep the whole Argentinian team under control and win.
Australia did not do that. They let Messi do what he liked. They did not suppress him in anyway. Instead - they worshipped his 'God-like' status and ego. They paid attention to him in all the wrong ways and 'paid' for it.

That's how you win against teams with those 'singularity' superstar 'individual' players in a ...TEAM SPORT.

Comprendo? Huh

The facts very clearly do not support your view.

Pele' won 3 world cups played in 4 world cup finals.
Maradona won a World cup.
Ronaldo won 2 world cups.

The great players tend to be the leading light in great teams.

When the best teams meet the team with the outstanding player invariably has the edge.

Tell that to Wayne Bennet and many other great Coaches.
Sadly, many Soccer nations couldn't get the gist of this facet when facing Maradonna and Pele. But I've seen sides shut down Messi before. I've even seen a German side thrash an ego-driven Brazil of 'individual' stars 7-1 with a clinical no-personality side of cohesion. I saw Canterbury-Bankstown shut down Balmain with the great Ellery Hanley, but in 'Redneck' football Terry Lamb just took their Ace Card out of action with a stiff arm. A bit rough, but it worked. Balmain, having relied on the individual brilliance of Hanley were lost without him. Grin

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Dnarever

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Re: World cup soccer on now.
Reply #200 - Dec 5^th, 2022 at 10:44am

Jasin wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 10:27am:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 8:40am:

Jasin wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 6:27am:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 11:08pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 9:36pm:

Argentina shouldn't be hard for the others to beat. They're just a 'one-man' side in a 'team' sport. You only have to deal with Messi. Australia didn't achieve that.

Tell that to Maradona, Pele' or Ronaldo etc. If he is as good it seems could be the case we may find that nobody handles him or they leave someone else open in trying.

The most successful teams in Team Sports are teams that play as a synchonised 'unit' - together.
Teams that have the above average player like Pele, Maradonna, Messi, etc - well they will always be 2nd Best.

The best example is Jonah Lomu and the All Blacks in Rugby. The Springboks and French knew they only had to play against 'ONE' player in a sport that demands 'a team' effort.
So to is Argentina and it has shown in the past, that teams who keep Messi under control, basically keep the whole Argentinian team under control and win.
Australia did not do that. They let Messi do what he liked. They did not suppress him in anyway. Instead - they worshipped his 'God-like' status and ego. They paid attention to him in all the wrong ways and 'paid' for it.

That's how you win against teams with those 'singularity' superstar 'individual' players in a ...TEAM SPORT.

Comprendo? Huh

The facts very clearly do not support your view.

Pele' won 3 world cups played in 4 world cup finals.
Maradona won a World cup.
Ronaldo won 2 world cups.

The great players tend to be the leading light in great teams.

When the best teams meet the team with the outstanding player invariably has the edge.

Tell that to Wayne Bennet and many other great Coaches.
Sadly, many Soccer nations couldn't get the gist of this facet when facing Maradonna and Pele. But I've seen sides shut down Messi before. I've even seen a German side thrash an ego-driven Brazil of 'individual' stars 7-1 with a clinical no-personality side of cohesion. I saw Canterbury-Bankstown shut down Balmain with the great Ellery Hanley, but in 'Redneck' football Terry Lamb just took their Ace Card out of action with a stiff arm. A bit rough, but it worked. Balmain, having relied on the individual brilliance of Hanley were lost without him. Grin

Quote:

Wayne Bennet

You mean the Wayne Bennett that had Wally Lewis, Alfie Langer, Darren Lockyer, Steve Renouf, Corey Parker, Glenn Lazeras etc. and still never won a soccer world cup ?

Quote:

I saw Canterbury-Bankstown shut down Balmain with the great Ellery Hanley

Lamb shut down Hanley by running in from 15 metres after the ball was passed and taking his head off. Hanley's eyes rolled back in his head while he was still in the air, Hanley was left unconscious and concussed badly. Lamb should have been sent off. The tackle was very late and very high. This almost certainly changed the result of the grand final.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53070 Gender:	Re: World cup soccer on now. Reply #201 - Dec 5^th, 2022 at 6:57pm Explaining things to you is like...
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Dnarever

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Re: World cup soccer on now.
Reply #202 - Dec 5^th, 2022 at 6:59pm

Jasin wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 6:57pm:

Explaining things to you is like...

The small problem you have is that you are wrong.

You should have worked that out by now.

The feeling I get is that you have never played this type of team sport.

Most of the great teams are very good teams with one or more great players.

The Australian Cricket team of the 1930's is acknowledged as a great team. They had Don Bradman. Its everywhere you look.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 112842 Melbourne Gender:	Re: World cup soccer on now. Reply #203 - Dec 5^th, 2022 at 7:12pm Quote: The most successful teams in Team Sports are teams that play as a synchonised 'unit' - together. Teams that have the above average player like Pele, Maradonna, Messi, etc - well they will always be 2nd Best. But good teams can take 20 shots on goal and every one of them misses. You need an accurate striker.
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Jasin

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Re: World cup soccer on now.
Reply #204 - Dec 5^th, 2022 at 7:21pm

Ahh yes. The 'Don'.
The man the whole team hated because they had to 'serve' him.

Now it's simple mathematics.
Team Sport = Team, not 'individual'.
Individual Sport = Individual, not 'team'.

If you see it against the 'orthodox' because of Bradman, Pele, Cocaine Maradonna, etc - well, the world is f*ucked up because it's been going about it all the wrong way. Take a look at the Democrats for example.

But hey. The Socceroos gave Messi little attention and he made them pay for it. Cancel out Messi and the rest of the side, mostly 'reliant' on Messi would find it hard to surpass his 'shining star status' and win the game beyond him.

A good allround Team will always beat a Team with just one 'Superstar' player.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Dnarever

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Re: World cup soccer on now.
Reply #205 - Dec 5^th, 2022 at 7:39pm

Jasin wrote on Dec 5^th, 2022 at 7:21pm:

Ahh yes. The 'Don'.
The man the whole team hated because they had to 'serve' him.

Now it's simple mathematics.
Team Sport = Team, not 'individual'.
Individual Sport = Individual, not 'team'.

If you see it against the 'orthodox' because of Bradman, Pele, Cocaine Maradonna, etc - well, the world is f*ucked up because it's been going about it all the wrong way. Take a look at the Democrats for example.

But hey. The Socceroos gave Messi little attention and he made them pay for it. Cancel out Messi and the rest of the side, mostly 'reliant' on Messi would find it hard to surpass his 'shining star status' and win the game beyond him.

A good allround Team will always beat a Team with just one 'Superstar' player.

I have shown an endless list of occasions where that was proven untrue in practise.

Quote:

Cancel out Messi and the rest of the side

No it is a very good team Messi is just the icing on the top. What happens when a defence double teams a player it means that there is a player open somewhere else. In soccer an attacking player not defended is game over. At world cup level it isn't teams with one very good player it is teams with all very good players and maybe one or two players who are really special.

The great player have a decade or more of oppositions trying to shut them down and failing. There is not one opposition team that do not understand what they need to do the problem is that it can be impossible.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53070 Gender:	Re: World cup soccer on now. Reply #206 - Dec 5^th, 2022 at 8:00pm You obviously don't know what a 'Spoiler' (also known as a 'spanner') player is.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 112842 Melbourne Gender:	Re: World cup soccer on now. Reply #207 - Dec 6^th, 2022 at 9:18am Japan got knocked out - against Croatia with a penalty shootout from a drawn game. Brazil beat South Korea 4 - 1.
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53070 Gender:	Re: World cup soccer on now. Reply #208 - Dec 6^th, 2022 at 1:43pm So it looks like its back to the same old borings.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 112842 Melbourne Gender:	Re: World cup soccer on now. Reply #209 - Dec 6^th, 2022 at 1:45pm Jasin wrote on Dec 6^th, 2022 at 1:43pm: So it looks like its back to the same old borings. You'll miss it when it's over. We have the Rugby world cup next year.
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