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Americans Support their Second Amendment (Read 45026 times)
philperth2010
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #210 - Jan 1st, 2023 at 10:52pm
 
Mortdooley wrote on Jan 1st, 2023 at 10:40pm:
Gun control laws have proven one thing, gun control laws don't work.


Bullshit mate!!!

Quote:
Australia managed to enact strong legislation around guns after a 1996 incident in Port Arthur, Tasmania, that left 35 dead and 21 injured. An AR-15 semiautomatic rifle was used in both the Parkland and Australia attacks.


https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/what-the-u-s-could-learn-from-austra...

EXPLAINER: WHY CAN’T THE UNITED STATES ENACT AUSTRALIAN-STYLE GUN CONTROL?

https://www.ussc.edu.au/analysis/explainer-america-australia-gun-control

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Mortdooley
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #211 - Jan 1st, 2023 at 11:05pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 1st, 2023 at 8:58pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 1st, 2023 at 2:10pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31st, 2022 at 2:11pm:
Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Where is "self-defence" mentioned, Panther? 


It's right next to the part that mentions muskets.

Americans don't need a reason to own guns they have the 2A. The founding fathers knew how to deal with bedwetting gun grabbers like you.


Quote:
It's right next to the part that mentions muskets.


Muskets get a mention in the Militia act of 1792, Self defence is not mentioned anywhere.



As you claim to be a Constitutional Scholar you need to read the entire Constitution, Bill of Rights and the Federalist Papers. They are all interconnected!
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AusGeoff
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #212 - Jan 1st, 2023 at 11:07pm
 
Mortdooley wrote on Jan 1st, 2023 at 10:40pm:
Gun control laws have proven one thing, gun control laws don't work...


Of course they do.    Look at the rate of gun deaths in Australia, or
the fact that we've had no mass shootings since the firearms amnesty
introduced after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996.

The lie that gun control laws don't work is nothing more than a fantasy
promoted by gun-happy, trigger happy, wannabe American cowboys.


Long guns make up for short penises?      Cheesy


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Brian Ross
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #213 - Jan 2nd, 2023 at 12:34pm
 
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Panther
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #214 - Jan 2nd, 2023 at 1:55pm
 
Mortdooley wrote on Jan 1st, 2023 at 10:40pm:
Gun control laws have proven one thing, gun control laws don't work. You will never find a solution when you insist on looking in the wrong place! Criminals don't obey the law so pass any law you like and somehow not only does it prove to not work but you think doubling down and passing more of the same will change the outcomes. Somehow we made it from the seventeenth century to the 1960s before we needed gun control laws. What do you think changed?

Quote:
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”


Our good times have made weak men who sometimes lash out and murder others. Life is cyclical and hard times are coming, an honest man would be a fool to be disarmed before that happens!

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« Last Edit: Jan 2nd, 2023 at 2:22pm by Panther »  

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greggerypeccary
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #215 - Jan 2nd, 2023 at 1:57pm
 
AusGeoff wrote on Jan 1st, 2023 at 11:07pm:
Mortdooley wrote on Jan 1st, 2023 at 10:40pm:
Gun control laws have proven one thing, gun control laws don't work...


Of course they do.    Look at the rate of gun deaths in Australia, or
the fact that we've had no mass shootings since the firearms amnesty
introduced after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996.

The lie that gun control laws don't work is nothing more than a fantasy
promoted by gun-happy, trigger happy, wannabe American cowboys.


Long guns make up for short penises?      Cheesy





...
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Brian Ross
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #216 - Jan 2nd, 2023 at 2:34pm
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #217 - Jan 2nd, 2023 at 5:44pm
 
Mortdooley wrote on Jan 1st, 2023 at 11:05pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jan 1st, 2023 at 8:58pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 1st, 2023 at 2:10pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31st, 2022 at 2:11pm:
Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Where is "self-defence" mentioned, Panther? 


It's right next to the part that mentions muskets.

Americans don't need a reason to own guns they have the 2A. The founding fathers knew how to deal with bedwetting gun grabbers like you.


Quote:
It's right next to the part that mentions muskets.


Muskets get a mention in the Militia act of 1792, Self defence is not mentioned anywhere.



As you claim to be a Constitutional Scholar you need to read the entire Constitution, Bill of Rights and the Federalist Papers. They are all interconnected!


There is no relevant reference to self defence in any of these areas.
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Mortdooley
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #218 - Jan 2nd, 2023 at 9:24pm
 
Remembering When Gun Control Was at Least Remotely Rational

By Selwyn Duke

Acurious mutation in gun control activism occurred during the last few decades, whence began a fixation on something dubbed the “assault rifle.”

Never mind that an assault rifle, insofar as the designation was ever at all valid, had always referenced a weapon with a “select fire” feature allowing three types of operation: semi-automatic, fully-automatic or in three-shot bursts. This doesn’t, of course, describe the class of rifles (e.g., AR-15-style) now targeted, whose operation is semi-automatic only (one bullet released per trigger pull), just like 50 percent of all new guns sold. But whatever you call them, here are two facts:


Back in the ‘80s and into the ‘90s, our rancorous firearms debates centered around banning handguns
The obsession with banning them is much, much newer than they are.

They’re merely part of a weapons class (rifles) used in fewer killings than are “personal weapons” — hands, fists and feet. That’s according to the FBI, mind you.

In contrast, handguns are used in 62 percent of murders committed with firearms. There was a time when this guided gun-control activists’ thinking, too.

Back in the ‘80s and into the ‘90s, our rancorous firearms debates centered around banning handguns. I disagreed with such a course, but at least the gun-control set’s arguments contained a smidgen of logic.

These weapons are used to commit a robust plurality of our nation’s murders, they said.

They’re concealable and thus are criminals’ firearm of choice, they said. So if anyone believed in gun control as remedy, the focus on handguns at least made sense: Banning firearms would reduce crime, the thesis went, so it was rational to focus on the guns most used, by far, in crimes. It was today’s SJW’s grandfather’s gun control.


No longer is their focus on handguns, not even a peep. Instead, it’s all Assault Weapons™ all the time
But those days now almost seem quaint. Emotion, which always figured prominently in gun-control appeals, has now completely taken over. No longer is their focus on handguns, not even a peep. Instead, it’s all Assault Weapons™ all the time. A couple of reasons for this leap to mind:

High-profile mass shootings, which became a lamentably regular phenomenon starting in the ‘90s, are often committed with semi-automatic sporting rifles such as the AR-15 (even though a semi-automatic shotgun would be far more effective in such a scenario; i.e., against soft targets at close range).
They’re low-hanging fruit — Gun grabbers’ previous failures perhaps taught them that targeting handguns is currently in vain; pistols are the most commonly owned type of firearm, after all. So they focus on AR-15-type weapons.
This can be effective because

laymen often find them scary, as they may look like sub-machine guns they see in movies. And as anti-Second Amendment activist Josh Sugarmann demagogically put it in 1989, “Assault weapons…are a new topic. The weapons’ menacing looks, coupled with the public’s confusion over fully-automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons — anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun — can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons”;
AR-15-type rifles are possessed by only a minority of gun owners, and with gun owners being just 32 percent of the country, this translates into their being in relatively few Americans’ hands. And people are more amenable to banning a product when doing so won’t affect them directly; and
given how the weapons have been misrepresented, the argument “Why do you need such things, anyway?” can be persuasive.

2020’s 600-plus BLM/Antifa riots, which also were allowed to proceed unfettered and destroyed billions in property and claimed at least two dozen lives
As to the last point, one correct response is that if our freedoms are based on “needs,” we’ll have relatively few freedoms left. We don’t need a fast sports car, ice cream, opera, palatial homes, swimming pools (drowning is the most common cause of death in children 1-4), to go hang-gliding (one of the more dangerous sports) or a multitude of other things. This is why a freedom must be considered innocent until proven guilty; the burden must lie not with the person who’d retain it, but with the one who’d remove it.

Lastly, those who’d criminalize firearms generally believe the weapons are at best superfluous because they trust the government to protect them. That’s certainly a quaint idea. Remember the L.A. riots in 1992, when the government, constrained by political correctness, refused to quell the unrest and allowed miscreants to run amuck? Hapless truck driver Reginald Denny was beaten to within an inch of his life, and some of the only people we saw who could defend themselves were Korean store owners wielding firearms. There also was Hurricane Katrina in 2005, during which many police abandoned their posts and armed gangs were roaming about. Then, of course, there were 2020’s 600-plus BLM/Antifa riots, which also were allowed to proceed unfettered and destroyed billions in property and claimed at least two dozen lives.

But, hey, we’re sure that the next time the boogeymen come, the gubmint will be there for you, right?

Well, you just rest secure in that knowledge, Mr. Liberal, and may you, if worse comes to worst, rest in peace. I’ll just rest with a piece, thank you.

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Brian Ross
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #219 - Jan 2nd, 2023 at 10:29pm
 
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Panther
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Americans Will Always Support the Second Amendment
Reply #220 - Jan 3rd, 2023 at 10:57am
 
...


After Supreme Court’s Gun Ruling, 2nd Amendment Groups Seek Gun Law ‘do-over’ in All Gun Law Cases



Source:      
San Diego Union-Tribune
       Quote:
Five months after the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling in a New York gun case set a new standard for how judges should analyze firearm restrictions, a series of hearings are set to begin Monday in federal court in San Diego that could eventually reshape California’s strict gun laws.

The Supreme Court’s 6-3 decision struck down New York’s law requiring “good cause” to carry a concealed weapon, a ruling that has already had an immediate affect in San Diego County. The local Sheriff’s Department has rapidly accelerated its issuance of concealed-carry weapons permits since the June 23 opinion as a result, officials said.

But the much broader implications of the ruling — the establishment of a new legal framework for courts to rule on the constitutionality of gun restrictions — is just now beginning to unfold.

Judges must now apply a standard “rooted in the Second Amendment’s text, as informed by history,” and “must demonstrate that the regulation is consistent with the nation’s historical tradition of firearm regulation.”

This new legal framework — what lawyers are calling the “text and history” or “text, history and tradition” standard — could bring sweeping changes to local and state gun laws, including those that outlaw homemade firearms, those that ban assault weapons and large-capacity magazines, and those that restrict gun purchases based on a buyer’s age or the frequency of the buyer’s purchases. A law banning the possession of batons and billy clubs could also be upended, with all of these challenges happening in U.S. district court in San Diego, a favorite venue for gun-rights groups.

Though some analysts are still waiting to see what legal impact the new standard will have, government lawyers have written that the framework for evaluating Second Amendment challenges has been “fundamentally altered,” while one attorney and gun-rights advocate said the new standard offers a “do-over” for Californians seeking to overturn the state’s gun restrictions.

“Everything was decided before on slightly different grounds,” Chuck Michel, an attorney and the president of the California Rifle and Pistol Association, said in reference to a two-step test that courts previously used to evaluate and rule on legal challenges to gun laws.

That test “was wiped out” by the Supreme Court’s ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen, Michel said.

“Now it’s a new test. Everything has to be reevaluated under the new test,” Michel said. “This is a do-over.”


Nick Wilson, senior director for gun violence prevention at the Center for American Progress, said it remains unclear which gun laws will or will not stand up to the new framework.

“At this point, we don’t know just how big of a deal Bruen is,” Wilson said. “Is it an existential threat to all our laws? ... There are so many unanswered questions at this time.”

In San Diego, many of the cases that will be decided anew are pending — again — in front of U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez, a George W. Bush appointee known as “St. Benitez” among firearms enthusiasts for his gun-friendly rulings in previous cases...........continued



What a Great Time for the Second Amendment!

San Diego is but one locality that will be hearing hundreds of gun cases that need to be revisited because SCOTUS effectively changed all the rules the courts must follow when deciding Second Amendment Rights cases regarding restrictive firearm regulations.

It is estimated that well in excess of 10,000 gun regulations will need to be re-written all across America, & overly restrictive regulations will have to be stricken from the books because the SCOTUS Bruen Decision effectively rendered most older gun regulations unconstitutional.
 

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Brian Ross
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #221 - Jan 3rd, 2023 at 11:39am
 
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Panther
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #222 - Jan 3rd, 2023 at 12:33pm
 
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When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Brian Ross
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #223 - Jan 3rd, 2023 at 2:47pm
 
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AusGeoff
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Re: Americans Support their Second Amendment
Reply #224 - Jan 3rd, 2023 at 3:17pm
 

Panther...

Madison certainly did say this:

Quote:
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the
citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms".


But...  the point you're missing—by citing his words—are that he wrote
them 235 years ago.  And of course it's a pointless exercise in conflating
the US society's mores and morals from 1788 with those of 2023.

That you have to rely on such an outdated, obsolete opinion in order to
support your current lust for guns is telling.

In Madison's day—for example—a trained militia man would be lucky to
fire off two or three rounds from his long gun in the space of a minute.
Compare that with the firing rate of weapons used in the recent American
mass shootings.

I'd be interested to see you address this horrifying statistic:

41,000 Americans die from gun violence every year - an average of more than 110 per day.

Do you think this is acceptable to the wider US society?   Do you personally
have no problems with accepting this figure?  Do you think it's far too high,
or perfectly reasonable?  Are the US's slack gun laws responsible, and do
you think a rewording of the 2nd Amendment could vastly reduce these numbers?
And are you happy to know that more than 2,200 of those gun deaths were
of children under 18 years of age?

And finally, as a supporter of the 2nd Amendment (as it stands) how many adult
gun deaths a year would you think is acceptable?    100, 1,000 or more?   And
how many children's gun deaths a year?   10, 100 or less?


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