Australian Politics Forum - The Aboriginal Voice referendum

thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1440 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 4:16pm

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 3:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 2:36pm:

Liberal Party confirms it will oppose the Indigenous Voice to Parliament Roll Eyes

Good call.

It will be interesting to see what effect this development has on the polls, given that the newspoll released yesterday showed a majority Yes vote in most states.

The Libs - part of the 'Noalition' - are after all currently unelectable....

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Boris

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1441 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 4:19pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 3:52pm:

"The oldest continuous surviving culture in the world" -- Linda Burnie.

Try telling that to Lidia Thorpe who thinks that a genocide has taken place against indigenous people.

It's not.

The Khoisan - Kalahari Bushmen have a culture that is 150,000 years old.

Australian Aborigines - child raping murdering cannibals are 50,000 if that.

So yet another lie from the Left

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1442 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 4:19pm

Howard:

On the night of the 1998 election I publicly committed myself to endeavouring to achieve Reconciliation by the year 2001. In the end, that did not happen.
...
(In 2007) why I am here tonight. I announce that, if reelected, I will put to the Australian people within 18 months a referendum to formally recognise Indigenous Australians in our Constitution - their history as the first inhabitants of our country, their unique heritage of culture and languages, and their special (though not separate) place within a reconciled, indivisible nation.
https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22me...

Beasley's draft, 1999.
https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22me...

2014
Australian PM Tony Abbott has vowed to "sweat blood" to secure constitutional recognition for indigenous people, saying he wants a referendum in 2017.
But Mr Abbott said he would not rush with the date until he was confident the referendum would succeed.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30443319

2018

Asked about the voice proposal – which has stalled since Turnbull rejected it in October – Morrison said he didn’t support a “third chamber” of parliament. When the broadcaster Fran Kelly rejected that characterisation, Morrison replied: “It really is. People can dress it up any way they like – but I think two chambers is enough.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/sep/26/scott-morrison-claims-ind...

A race based, undemocratic third chamber of parliament was never supported. But with socialist left Laborite Albinocchio in government, the Aboriginal aristocracy is pushing for maximum power and co-sovereignty. They made an offer to spluttering, snivelling Albinocchio he cannot refuse. And if the Voice gets up, they will continue to make maximalist demands on government, public service, statutory authorities, government departments.

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1443 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 4:29pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 4:16pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 3:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 2:36pm:

Liberal Party confirms it will oppose the Indigenous Voice to Parliament Roll Eyes

Good call.

It will be interesting to see what effect this development has on the polls, given that the newspoll released yesterday showed a majority Yes vote in most states.

The Libs - part of the 'Noalition' - are after all currently unelectable....

This wheeze has been made into an overtly emotional issue even though it is about the Constitution and how laws are made, not about courtesy and feelings. Therefore many people would be reluctant to say to a pollster or any stranger that they are 'not nice' people but nasty racists (as opponents are routinely called by the Voice activists, in the spirit of reconciliation.

The same is happening in the corporations, univerities, sporting clubs and churches etc - the noisy, self-righteous nodders make the more timid opponents of the Voice careful about revealing their thoughts for fear of being shamed and called or thought of as racists.
The shrill nodders whose ultimate argument is "racism" forget that many Aborigines also oppose the Voice.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1444 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 4:56pm

A perfect example of definition and mission creep.... rememb er she who must not be named who it was said pre the departure of QEII would never be Queen?

https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/kings-coronation-camillas-new-title-and-prince-ge...

This is how these things work... they wait a while until the furore has died down and quietly change things around... proving the public generally are easily distracted.

This will happen with any 'advisory body' voice as well, you mark my words.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Valkie

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1445 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 6:42pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 1:03pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 11:40am:

Will he get to be in on the Voice?

https://quadrant.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/pascoe-fauxborigine.png

If the current criterion – self-identification – is applied, that would open up a can of worms. We need to know who exactly qualifies as an Aborigine and how those persons establish their bona fides. For example, would any degree of Aboriginality in one’s ancestry qualify? If so, then the Aboriginal population can only continue to expand indefinitely — expand to the point where this will become less about disadvantage and more about entitlement. If not, then where is the cut-off? Is it 50 per cent aboriginality? 25 per cent? 12.5 per cent? Wherever it is set, someone is going to be aggrieved.

It cannot be left to Parliament, or worse the High Court, to define, expand or contract this demographic at whim. If the Voice goes into the Constitution, then it must be the Constitution (by means of a referendum) that defines and redefines – over time and as necessary – who is an Aborigine.
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/the-constitution/2023/03/the-most-insidious-defe...

I'm Aborigine - and so is my wife!

That photo is absolutely hilarious.

Pascoe the pretend Aboriginal. Grin

As an elder, he will not be recognised without ritual scarring.

When he gets his scars, by the old ways, he might have a claim.

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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1446 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:31pm

Actually the Nats are on the right track when they said (today) they want a legislated voice - not constitutional change - to empower local communities to close the gap.

It's a pity they have forgotten the old CDEP scheme achieved just that; but they knew then - and now - nothing of macro economics when the neoliberal-blinded Libs forced the cancellation of the scheme, so the Nats rolled over.

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1447 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:53pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:31pm:

Actually the Nats are on the right track when they said (today) they want a legislated voice - not constitutional change - to empower local communities to close the gap.

It's a pity they have forgotten the old CDEP scheme achieved just that; but they knew then - and now - nothing of macro economics when the neoliberal-blinded Libs forced the cancellation of the scheme, so the Nats rolled over.

It was the Libs today, parrot.
And your second sentence - like most of your monomania - is gibberish.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1448 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 9:28pm

Valkie wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 6:42pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 1:03pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 11:40am:

Will he get to be in on the Voice?

https://quadrant.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/pascoe-fauxborigine.png

If the current criterion – self-identification – is applied, that would open up a can of worms. We need to know who exactly qualifies as an Aborigine and how those persons establish their bona fides. For example, would any degree of Aboriginality in one’s ancestry qualify? If so, then the Aboriginal population can only continue to expand indefinitely — expand to the point where this will become less about disadvantage and more about entitlement. If not, then where is the cut-off? Is it 50 per cent aboriginality? 25 per cent? 12.5 per cent? Wherever it is set, someone is going to be aggrieved.

It cannot be left to Parliament, or worse the High Court, to define, expand or contract this demographic at whim. If the Voice goes into the Constitution, then it must be the Constitution (by means of a referendum) that defines and redefines – over time and as necessary – who is an Aborigine.
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/the-constitution/2023/03/the-most-insidious-defe...

I'm Aborigine - and so is my wife!

That photo is absolutely hilarious.

Pascoe the pretend Aboriginal. Grin

As an elder, he will not be recognised without ritual scarring.

When he gets his scars, by the old ways, he might have a claim.

Like being identified as a Lakota of the people, you have to have the scars from the Sun Dance.... only a true warrior bears the scars as proof of manhood...

I thought Dutton put it well when he said it would be better to have the discussion on composition and operation of a voice now and explain it well to the people, rather than over a six month period after a vote.

Just the fact that they don't want to discuss it now and present it to the people is enough to sink it. If you think politicians of the progressive stamp and a few elitist 'stakeholders' drawn from only one side of the discussion can be trusted - I cannot help you in your folly.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1449 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 10:07pm

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 8:31pm:

Actually the Nats are on the right track when they said (today) they want a legislated voice - not constitutional change - to empower local communities to close the gap.

It's a pity they have forgotten the old CDEP scheme achieved just that; but they knew then - and now - nothing of macro economics when the neoliberal-blinded Libs forced the cancellation of the scheme, so the Nats rolled over.

It was the Libs today, parrot.

I was referring to comment from the Nats today, after Dutton said no to the voice.
I accept your apology.

Quote:

And your second sentence - like most of your monomania - is gibberish.

A JG (like the CDEP) is managed at the local level, with input by the local community, just as the Nats spokesman was calling for, today, re programs to close to gap.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 51255 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1450 - Apr 5^th, 2023 at 10:18pm What's special about Aborigines? They are regarded as some sort of fkkn exotic species. They aren't. Are they equal to everyone else or aren't they?? FFS.
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 44218	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1451 - Apr 6^th, 2023 at 12:20pm Noel Pearson accused Peter Dutton of 'preparing the grave' to bury the Uluru Statement, after Liberals reject Voice proposal
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1452 - Apr 6^th, 2023 at 1:25pm

Frank wrote on Apr 5^th, 2023 at 10:18pm:

What's special about Aborigines? They are regarded as some sort of fkkn exotic species. They aren't. Are they equal to everyone else or aren't they??
FFS.

1. They were still a stone age people in 1788 - that's special.

But note; the invaders' ships were still powered by wind, 2000 years after Caesar's invasion of Britain, in wind- powered Roman ships.

Technology is speeding up: a mere 200 years after the invasion of Oz by Britain, space ships are powered by hydrogen-burning rockets.

2. Not exotic people, but still suffering the effects of the loss of their h-g culture.

3. they are "equal", but suffering the egregious socio-economic effects of cultural displacement and neoliberal welfare dependency.

4. You cannot "walk in others' shoes"?

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13884 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1453 - Apr 6^th, 2023 at 1:30pm Brian Ross wrote on Apr 6^th, 2023 at 12:20pm: Noel Pearson accused Peter Dutton of 'preparing the grave' to bury the Uluru Statement, after Liberals reject Voice proposal yes I heard Noel on RN today. A sad case, appealing to 'generosity'...no chance. He would do better promoting the JG.
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 44218	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1454 - Apr 6^th, 2023 at 3:44pm Like rats deserting a sinking ship - Ken Wyatt quits Liberal Party over Voice to Parliament stance
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Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
* This poll has now closed *
No 42 (75.0%) Yes 14 (25.0%) Total votes: 56 « Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25^th, 2023 at 11:17am »