Australian Politics Forum - The Climate Change Cult will not like this

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19807 Gender:	Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this Reply #30 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 6:10pm FD wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 4:38pm: Just look at what an average 1⁰ degree rise has already done. What has it done. Be precise. The 1.5C caterwauling has no scientific basis. The 2C caterwauling has even less than no scientific basis.
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Frank

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #31 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 6:39pm

FD wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 4:20pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 9:38am:

During the winter and spring of 2013/2014, Britain suffered a prolonged period of destructive winter storms, resulting in widespread flooding and damage. However this was not the first time that the country had been devastated by heavy periods of rain and bad weather.

/en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_floods_in_Europe[/url]

Just so. You see? Rain. If the Pakis can't manage their weather, they should call in someone who can.

Maybe they should ask Mother back. Colonialism ended far too soon, no?

Exactly.

They are like neglected children, abandoned at 13.

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Frank

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #32 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 6:42pm

FD wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 4:38pm:

Belgarion wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 1:42pm:

It is shattering to the Climate Cultists when their false religion is exposed. The interviewer in the OP was outraged and the cutists on this forum are behaving the same. Grin

Just so. Just look at what an average 1⁰ degree rise has already done. No one's calling the recent flood and bushfire survivors cultists - or their insurance companies. We want to help, dear. That's the Australian way.

A 2⁰ rise will fundamentally change the planet's ecosystems. The melting of glaciers alone will destroy major river systems. As we've already seen, however, the fires, floods and droughts will be worse than they ever were, we have already seen it. We may be the last generation left to be relatively untouched by climate change.

We'll hit 2⁰ some time this century. The world then will be a totally different place.

Pointless to be outraged, but at least we now have politicians in power who are prepared to take some action. Xi, Modi and Putin are going to need some persuading too.

You?

You do realise that this is....er... statistics?

https://clintel.org/world-climate-declaration/

Collect bananas, 10 rupees and sack cloth - then rend donated sack cloth and heap ash on your sinful head. Naughty, naughty wee bufty from glorious Pakistan. Soo bad.i

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FD

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #33 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 7:09pm

lee wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 6:10pm:

FD wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 4:38pm:

Just look at what an average 1⁰ degree rise has already done.

What has it done. Be precise.

The 1.5C caterwauling has no scientific basis.

The 2C caterwauling has even less than no scientific basis. Roll Eyes

No one can be precise on the damage caused by the 2020 bushfires or the 2022 floods, dear. No one can be precise on the record European heatwave or the UK drought or, yes, the Pakistani floods and I dare say the Russian bushires too.

All of these weather events are unprecedented and caused by global warming, as every schoolboy knows.

I note you're not asking your astrophysicist to be precise. He's just saying yeah-but-no-but-yeah-but-no. He also says covid doesn't exist.

The rest of the scientific community is saying yeah, you quadruple the human population and release more CO2 than the world can handle and, ah. It gets hot.

Oh, and covid exists.

Naughty naughty, no?

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FD

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #34 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 7:18pm

Frank wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 6:42pm:

FD wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 4:38pm:

Belgarion wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 1:42pm:

It is shattering to the Climate Cultists when their false religion is exposed. The interviewer in the OP was outraged and the cutists on this forum are behaving the same. Grin

Just so. Just look at what an average 1⁰ degree rise has already done. No one's calling the recent flood and bushfire survivors cultists - or their insurance companies. We want to help, dear. That's the Australian way.

A 2⁰ rise will fundamentally change the planet's ecosystems. The melting of glaciers alone will destroy major river systems. As we've already seen, however, the fires, floods and droughts will be worse than they ever were, we have already seen it. We may be the last generation left to be relatively untouched by climate change.

We'll hit 2⁰ some time this century. The world then will be a totally different place.

Pointless to be outraged, but at least we now have politicians in power who are prepared to take some action. Xi, Modi and Putin are going to need some persuading too.

You?

You do realise that this is....er... statistics?

https://clintel.org/world-climate-declaration/

Collect bananas, 10 rupees and sack cloth - then rend donated sack cloth and heap ash on your sinful head. Naughty, naughty wee bufty from glorious Pakistan. Soo bad.

Is it?

Quote:

In late September 2019 the group produced an open letter which presented a European Climate Declaration, stating that there was no climate emergency and repeating a number of claims that were inconsistent with the scientific evidence on climate.[10]

A fact check performed by climate scientists for Climate Feedback gave the letter an overall scientific credibility of "very low", and tagged it as "Biased, Cherry-picking, Inaccurate, Misleading". The analysis also added that, out of the roughly 500 signatories, only 10 self-identified as climate scientists.[11] The document was later rebranded as the World Climate Declaration.[12]

But of course.

Quote:

Augustinus Johannes "Guus" Berkhout (born 1940) is a Dutch engineer who has worked for the oil and gas industry, and as a professor.

Berkhout started his career working for Shell. Between 1976 and 2007, he served as professor of acoustics, geophysics and innovation management, at Delft University of Technology. From 2000 to 2002 he was chair of a commission dealing with projected sound norms at Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, from which he resigned after feeling the commission's independence was undermined by the Ministry for Transport and Water Management. In 2019, Berkhout co-founded the climate sceptic organization Climate Intelligence Foundation (CLINTEL).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guus_Berkhout

So that's that. Back to your bananas.

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lee

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #35 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 7:44pm

FD wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 7:09pm:

No one can be precise on the damage caused by the 2020 bushfires or the 2022 floods, dear. No one can be precise on the record European heatwave or the UK drought or, yes, the Pakistani floods and I dare say the Russian bushires too.

You mean you don't trust the IPCC, NASA? Roll Eyes

"Floods - In summary there is low confidence in the human influence on the changes in high river flows on the global scale. Confidence is in general low in attributing changes in the probability or magnitude of flood events to human influence because of a limited number of studies and differences in the results of these studies, and large modelling uncertainties."

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.5.4

"Globally, the total acreage burned by fires each year declined by 24 percent between 1998 and 2015, according to a new paper in Science that analyzes NASA’s satellite data, as well as population and socioeconomic information. The decline in burned lands was largest in savannas and grasslands, where fires are essential for maintaining healthy ecosystems and habitat conservation."

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2017/nasa-detects-drop-in-global-fires

But I suppose you are talking about weather seeing as you are specific about 2019, 2020 and 2022.

Poor old Karny confusing weather and climate. Grin

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lee

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #36 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 7:50pm

FD wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 7:18pm:

A fact check performed by climate scientists for Climate Feedback gave the letter an overall scientific credibility of "very low", and tagged it as "Biased, Cherry-picking, Inaccurate, Misleading". The analysis also added that, out of the roughly 500 signatories, only 10 self-identified as climate scientists.[11] The document was later rebranded as the World Climate Declaration.[12]

Poor old Climate Feedback the alarmists alarmist. Grin

And you don't believe professors because all professors lie? Grin

Tell us who the main players are in renewables Karny? Shell, Mobil, BP and yet you pillory them. Grin

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FD

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #37 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:15pm

More bananas.

Here's your Climate Declaration, old boy.

Quote:

Meet the 'ambassadors'

The document lists 14 ECD "ambassadors" from different locations. A number of them have been active in the climate sceptic community for many years.

Australia's representative, Viv Forbes, has been writing sceptical articles for over a decade. He is the administrator of long-running climate sceptic blog Carbon Sense.

He is also the executive director of climate sceptic organisation the Saltbush Club, which was constituted in November 2018 to "change the climate of public opinion, thus changing the political agenda".

Guus Berkhout, from the Netherlands, is one of the founders of climate sceptic organisation, Clintel, which was founded this year and is the progenitor of the petition.

On his website, Mr Berkout lists professional experience as a professor of geophysics at TU Delft, ending in 2016. His biography also details his time working for petroleum company Shell in the 1960s and 1970s.

There are a number of notable Australians listed in the petition, including:

Jeremy K. Ellis, former chairman of mining company BHP

Hugh Morgan, former CEO of Western Mining Corporation

Ian Plimer, an academic geologist who is a prominent climate sceptic

Peter Ridd, a former professor at James Cook University

Des Moore, a former deputy secretary of the Federal Treasury

Fact Check attempted to contact each Australian signatory to the petition to verify that they had signed the petition and endorsed its contents.

The majority we were unable to contact.

We asked Mr Berkhout to provide contact details for each Australian signatory. He declined, citing privacy reasons.

Fact Check also asked Mr Forbes for help in this endeavour; he also declined.

Nonetheless, Fact Check was able to source contact details for just over a third of the signatories. Through phone interviews and correspondence on the internet, we were able to verify the identities of 29 out of 75.

We spoke to 22 via phone, of whom two hung up before completing the full interview. However, we were able to confirm that each of these signatories did indeed sign the petition.

The vast majority of these we were unable to find contact details for.

However, some were contacted and did not respond to requests for an interview, including Emeritus Professor Plimer, with whom we left several voicemails.

The Saltbush connection

Further investigation online revealed an organisational connection between many of the signatories.

The names of 38 of the Australian signatories (50.7 per cent) are listed as founding members of the Saltbush Club in a document found on its website — the same organisation of which ECD representative Viv Forbes is executive director.

The group counts both former Liberal National Party Queensland premier Campbell Newman and current LNP Queensland state MP Colin Boyce amongst its founding members, as well as former federal Liberal Democrat senator David Leyonhjelm and mining magnate Gina Rinehart. None of these people are signatories of the petition.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-27/who-are--scientists-professionals-who-say...

Gotta love it, no? A global fossil fuel lobby group dressed up as a Climate Declaration. But get this, it's not political:

Quote:

There is no climate emergency

A global network of over 1200 scientists and professionals has prepared this urgent message. Climate science should be less political, while climate policies should be more scientific. Scientists should openly address uncertainties and exaggerations in their predictions of global warming, while politicians should dispassionately count the real costs as well as the imagined benefits of their policy measures.

And, you know, despite not publishing identities and signatories hanging up when journalists call, Clintel strives for objectivity and transparency:

Quote:

CLINTEL’s main objective is to generate knowledge and understanding of the causes and effects of climate change as well as the effects of climate policy. To this end:

1. The Foundation tries to communicate objectively and transparently to the general public what facts are available about climate change and climate policy and also where facts turn into assumptions and predictions.

Gotta love it. "CLINTEL wants to take the role of independent ‘climate watchdog’, both in the field of climate science and climate policy", but it refuses to publish the identities of its members.

And when we discover those identities, they're miners, paid lobbyists or members of the Libs. Names like Campbell Newman, David Leyonhjelm and Gina Rinehart, none of whom will put their name to it.

Now we know. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

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« Last Edit: Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:27pm by FD »

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lee

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #38 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:31pm

RMIT fact check? You mean one of those places of suppsedly higher learning has there own fact check? Who does this on their behalf?

Oh the IFCN.
"It was selected for this database because it fits our researchers' inclusion criteria."

So it has to fit their researcher's biases. Grin

A vital supporter of Farcebook.

Too funny Karny. Grin

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FD

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #39 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:33pm

lee wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 7:50pm:

FD wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 7:18pm:

A fact check performed by climate scientists for Climate Feedback gave the letter an overall scientific credibility of "very low", and tagged it as "Biased, Cherry-picking, Inaccurate, Misleading". The analysis also added that, out of the roughly 500 signatories, only 10 self-identified as climate scientists.[11] The document was later rebranded as the World Climate Declaration.[12]

Poor old Climate Feedback the alarmists alarmist. Grin

And you don't believe professors because all professors lie? Grin

Tell us who the main players are in renewables Karny? Shell, Mobil, BP and yet you pillory them. Grin

Not at all, Lee. If those players come out and say who they are, it's all good.

The old boy wants to hide behind a fake UN document published by the fossil fuel lobby, who are a bit shy about saying who they are.

But that's okay. Now we know.

It took us a while, dear, but we got there in the end, no?

Quote:

1. The Foundation tries to communicate objectively and transparently to the general public what facts are available about climate change and climate policy and also where facts turn into assumptions and predictions.

2. The Foundation conducts and stimulates a public debate about this and carries out investigative reporting in this field.

3. The Foundation wants to function as an international meeting place for scientists with different views on climate change and climate policy.

4. The Foundation will also carry out or finance its own scientific research into climate change and climate policy.

CLINTEL wants to take the role of independent ‘climate watchdog’, both in the field of climate science and climate policy.

https://clintel.org/about-us/

Just not political, okay?

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lee

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #40 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:36pm

Farc3ebook an ICFN-

"Facebook finally admitted the truth: The “fact checks” that social media use to police what Americans read and watch are just “opinion.”

That’s thanks to a lawsuit brought by celebrated journalist John Stossel, which has exposed the left’s supposed battle against “misinformation” as a farce."

https://nypost.com/2021/12/14/facebook-admits-the-truth-fact-checks-are-really-j....

Grin

The Farce4book defence - "It is only opinion". Grin

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FD

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #41 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:44pm

lee wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:31pm:

RMIT fact check? You mean one of those places of suppsedly higher learning has there own fact check? Who does this on their behalf?

Oh the IFCN.
"It was selected for this database because it fits our researchers' inclusion criteria."

So it has to fit their researcher's biases. Grin

A vital supporter of Farcebook.

Too funny Karny. Grin

I thought so, dear. When I first saw the old boy's declaration I though, ah.

Now I know. Ee.

Facts don't lie, Lee. Australia is fucked, but we're ready to clean it up. The majority of us are willing to take action, and if you're a Campbell Newman or a Craig Kelly or a silly old Clive Palmer, you can shop around for another country.

So can the old boy - he's perfectly free to go back to where he came from.

But here in jolly old Oz, we're not playing your game anymore. It's time.

We're stuck with you, Lee, but we know you well by now. A couple of chuckles and you're happy.

All good Grin

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lee

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #42 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 9:14pm

FD wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:44pm:

Facts don't lie, Lee. Australia is buggered, but we're ready to clean it up. The majority of us are willing to take action, and if you're a Campbell Newman or a Craig Kelly or a silly old Clive Palmer, you can shop around for another country.

Ah so you believe in Albo, Justice and the American Australian dream. Powered by renewables despite scientists saying it is a forlorn hope.

To backup up solar and wind you will require some type of battery. Australia consumes about 250TWh of electricity. So you would need a battery of 28GW multiplied by the number of hours you want power, should your primary source (solar and wind) fail. Usually 7 days or 168 hours.

FD wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:44pm:

But here in jolly old Oz, we're not playing your game anymore. It's time.

When will you have to face reality?

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Frank

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #43 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 9:25pm

FD wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:44pm:

lee wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:31pm:

RMIT fact check? You mean one of those places of suppsedly higher learning has there own fact check? Who does this on their behalf?

Oh the IFCN.
"It was selected for this database because it fits our researchers' inclusion criteria."

So it has to fit their researcher's biases. Grin

A vital supporter of Farcebook.

Too funny Karny. Grin

I thought so, dear. When I first saw the old boy's declaration I though, ah.

Now I know. Ee.

Facts don't lie, Lee. Australia is fucked, but we're ready to clean it up. The majority of us are willing to take action, and if you're a Campbell Newman or a Craig Kelly or a silly old Clive Palmer, you can shop around for another country.

So can the old boy - he's perfectly free to go back to where he came from.

But here in jolly old Oz, we're not playing your game anymore. It's time.

We're stuck with you, Lee, but we know you well by now. A couple of chuckles and you're happy.

All good Grin

Remove resentment and bitter rancour from that and what is left?? Two bananas and 10 rupees.

That's all the good of it.

Tapdancing coming up.

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FD

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Re: The Climate Change Cult will not like this
Reply #44 - Sep 17^th, 2022 at 9:40pm

lee wrote on Sep 17^th, 2022 at 8:36pm:

Farc3ebook an ICFN-

"Facebook finally admitted the truth: The “fact checks” that social media use to police what Americans read and watch are just “opinion.”

That’s thanks to a lawsuit brought by celebrated journalist John Stossel, which has exposed the left’s supposed battle against “misinformation” as a farce."

https://nypost.com/2021/12/14/facebook-admits-the-truth-fact-checks-are-really-j....

Grin

The Farce4book defence - "It is only opinion". Grin

Not at all. Facts can be tested, and often are, in court. Opinion too. Australia has had universal defamation laws since 2008.

That's why I can say Clintel's "Climate Declaration" is deceptive and not get taken to court by the fossil fuel lobby.

I'm not saying that as an opinion, I'm stating the fact that it refuses to disclose its "signatories" to its declarations.

I'm also stating the fact that its membership comprises of key players in the mining industry. I'm saying much of its "research" comes from fossil fuel lobbies like the Saltbush Club, an anti-renewable organization.

They gave ScoMo many of his talking points about electric cars destroying the weekend in the 2019 campaign. They also hate wind turbines, and you'd expect them to - they're funded by fossil fuel. You can read about their political connections here:

https://www.crikey.com.au/2020/02/06/saltbush-club-part-one/

These are facts. It's my opinion that such groups are a cancer on Australian society and I'm grateful to the rest of Australia showing them the door in the last election. I'm allowed to have this opinion, but if I say its a fact, you can sue me, so please feel free to do so.

Your tirade about fact checking being leftard is just silly rhetotlrical waffle in the genre of "alternative facts". We used to call this satire, in the tradition of Jonathon Swift and George Orwell. Now, polemicists like yourself have turned it into an alternative version of reality.

Its popular too. You can watch it nightly on the Sky or Fox talk shows. It's also my opinion that they are a form of cancer too, just like the old boy's Climate Declaration. Rupert, of course, has a foot in both.

And yes, it's all funded and propagated by the same players. Some of those Saltbush emissaries are wheeled out on Sky each night, just like the astrophysicist in the OP.

They dont have to say much, just question the facts. How can we tell climate change is happening? How do we know? Who can say? Questions, questions. This is pretty much your entire schtick- apart from the giggles, its what you do.

We got to see alternative facts on trial in the last US election, remember? One by one, Dear Leader's "facts" got thrown out of court. Dear Leader couldn't handle it. He was used to making his case on Fox News.

Then, Tucker and Hannity got their day, as Dominion sued them . They had made the mistake of stating their opinions as facts. They, of course, were used to speaking to Dear Leader, so it was all a muddle, a "feedback loop" as the astrophysicists like to say. Suffice to say, Dear Leader's judges didn't help him out with his "facts". Fox News defendants are still in court.

Facts matter, Lee. There are no leftard facts, just as there is no scientific controversy over climate change. The scientific consensus is its happening. The critics are those "signatories" to the old boy's declaration: LNP politicians, mining magnates and fossil fuel lobbyists.

The rest of them don't want you to know. They hung up on those mean lefty fact-checkers before they could be asked. Are you, or have you ever been, a signatory to the "Climate Declaration"?

...

So unfair, no?

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« Last Edit: Sep 17^th, 2022 at 9:48pm by FD »

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