Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Poll closed Poll
Question: Do you want royalty banished from our political system?
*** This poll has now closed ***


Yes    
  15 (48.4%)
No    
  16 (51.6%)




Total votes: 31
« Created by: Bobby. on: Sep 11th, 2022 at 5:03pm »

Pages: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 ... 27
Send Topic Print
Time for a republic. (Read 8734 times)
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 51167
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #270 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:51pm
 
FD, fix up this shite software - I can't reply to something that was posted 4 or 5 posts ago.


Is this your doing?? It is not happening on every board.
Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Jasin
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 52345
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #271 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:56pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Jasin wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:29pm:
They are saying "Head of State" now.
Few years back and again more so - they were saying "President as Head of State".


Yes, because people are basically stupid and when they hear the word 'President' they immediately think our republic will be the same as the US.

It won't, so they're avoiding the use of the term 'President' so as not to confuse the average Australian ignorant of political matters.

I'm glad they took my advice on this matter.


Crap on.
The Celebrities and their A.R.M rubbish are basically American Media nobs. Everyone knows their desire for a Republic is to undermine anything British here with nothing but an Irish cliche to work on as a Republic. The 'American' influence is overwelmingly obvious, even from the American instigated Eureka stockade movement. Colonialism is the American input in Australia, beyond the Penal establishment of the British. It was the Free Settlers and Squatters with their American right to own a gun that committed Aborigine genocides - most of which occurred in QLD (which is the American State 'Wally World').

Take your 'Americanised' Republic and shove it up your arse!. Grin
Proud to be 'chained' to Britain.  Wink
Back to top
 

AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
IP Logged
 
chimera
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 13182
Armidale
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #272 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 6:05pm
 
'American right to own a gun'.
Blue Mountains expedition: 8 November 1802:
"Mr. Barrelier set off on his journey on Thursday last. They were 10 or 11 in number, and all had guns [and] a cart with two bullocks. This party, I understand, are likely to go a great way if we credit the report; but in my opinion it will fail, for they cannot go above 2 days' journey before they must part with the bullocks, and then every man must carry his own provisions, and he must be a very strong man that can carry 20lb extra of his gun, ammunition, etc."
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
aquascoot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 36116
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #273 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 6:23pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 2:32pm:
aquascoot wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 2:17pm:
Dnarever wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 12:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:23am:
Dnarever wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 10:08pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 6:46pm:
Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 6:40pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 12:32pm:
To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.


Quote:
To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us


I see this as the worst reason available but the one that everyone rolls out without anything reasoned to support it.

For a start I would say that the exact opposite is true.

I don't see us as a small snivelling people frightened by our own shadow crying about perceptions that nobody really believes or cares about.




So you believe in privilege by birth not merit?


Merit is the system with the least merit. Mostly merit is translated to someone I like better. A correct identification on merit is extremely rare and in many cases non existent.


certainly in many chode professions, this is true.
academia, the public service, social work, the disability sector, aged care, teaching, robotic jobs working for a boss....its almost impossible to sort out merit.

in the trades, mechanics, electricians, plant operators, fencers, accountants, neurosurgeons, dentists, cattle raising, cropping, SAS pre selection, sports

in these areas, you can establish a reputation,
the market can judge you
you open yourself up to the criticiasm of the market
you rise or fail according to your merit.

comservative professions, athletic prowess, business ...these areas allow the superior man to shine.

the inferior man will become a cog in the mattrix for the very reason that he does not have grit guts and self beleif.

if you are a chode, the idea of working a lame ass job and then whining about trump and hating on successful sportsmen and business people has appeal.
it stops you reflecting on your own cowardice and laziness


So in short you are saying that Merit would not be a meaningful metric to help chose a President.

A little of what you said I would partially agree with.

I give an example: Sports is an obvious positive where the cream rises to the top but it is still potentially corrupt and strongly influenced by personal preference and friendships.

Look at selections for the NSW State of Origin team over the decades. There has been a consistent bais towards certain players from certain clubs. Not so much with the current administration over last few years but still a thumb on the scales.

Quote:
you open yourself up to the criticiasm of the market


Mr 20% below average electrician puts an add in the paper and will get more customers then he / she can handle as will Mr 90% above average accountant.

For most of these guys any perception of Merit is almost meaningless to their outcomes and just as likely unknown. As long as the job is done properly there is no assignment or differentiation based on merit at all in most cases.



this is true , to some extent , in the city , where nad tradesmen can hide to some extent.

but in a smaller country town, if you dont have merit, you are screwed.

in a small country town, if there are 3 plumbers and 3 electricians, you better make sure you arent a chode delivering poor quality service.

the market blowtorch will force you to perform .

this is true capitalism and it is awesome


OH so we can only select out President from tradesmen from small country towns - Got it.


a tradesman in a country town would be a good choice for PM.
a bit more grounded then , say, adam bandt.

maybe adam  bandt or kevin rudd or penny wong could go do a stint as a deisel mechanic in Mt Isa and see how they go in 'real' australia .

lets see their "merit"  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 143553
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #274 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 6:39pm
 
Jasin wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Jasin wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:29pm:
They are saying "Head of State" now.
Few years back and again more so - they were saying "President as Head of State".


Yes, because people are basically stupid and when they hear the word 'President' they immediately think our republic will be the same as the US.

It won't, so they're avoiding the use of the term 'President' so as not to confuse the average Australian ignorant of political matters.

I'm glad they took my advice on this matter.


Crap on.
The Celebrities and their A.R.M rubbish are basically American Media nobs. Everyone knows their desire for a Republic is to undermine anything British here with nothing but an Irish cliche to work on as a Republic. The 'American' influence is overwelmingly obvious, ...


So obvious, in fact, that they never use the term 'President' for HOS anywhere on their website.

https://republic.org.au/

Dear oh dear   Roll Eyes
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 98305
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #275 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 6:41pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 2:17pm:
Dnarever wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 12:39pm:
aquascoot wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:23am:
Dnarever wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 10:08pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 6:46pm:
Dnarever wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 6:40pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 12:32pm:
To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.


Quote:
To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us


I see this as the worst reason available but the one that everyone rolls out without anything reasoned to support it.

For a start I would say that the exact opposite is true.

I don't see us as a small snivelling people frightened by our own shadow crying about perceptions that nobody really believes or cares about.




So you believe in privilege by birth not merit?


Merit is the system with the least merit. Mostly merit is translated to someone I like better. A correct identification on merit is extremely rare and in many cases non existent.


certainly in many chode professions, this is true.
academia, the public service, social work, the disability sector, aged care, teaching, robotic jobs working for a boss....its almost impossible to sort out merit.

in the trades, mechanics, electricians, plant operators, fencers, accountants, neurosurgeons, dentists, cattle raising, cropping, SAS pre selection, sports

in these areas, you can establish a reputation,
the market can judge you
you open yourself up to the criticiasm of the market
you rise or fail according to your merit.

comservative professions, athletic prowess, business ...these areas allow the superior man to shine.

the inferior man will become a cog in the mattrix for the very reason that he does not have grit guts and self beleif.

if you are a chode, the idea of working a lame ass job and then whining about trump and hating on successful sportsmen and business people has appeal.
it stops you reflecting on your own cowardice and laziness


So in short you are saying that Merit would not be a meaningful metric to help chose a President.

A little of what you said I would partially agree with.

I give an example: Sports is an obvious positive where the cream rises to the top but it is still potentially corrupt and strongly influenced by personal preference and friendships.

Look at selections for the NSW State of Origin team over the decades. There has been a consistent bais towards certain players from certain clubs. Not so much with the current administration over last few years but still a thumb on the scales.

Quote:
you open yourself up to the criticiasm of the market


Mr 20% below average electrician puts an add in the paper and will get more customers then he / she can handle as will Mr 90% above average accountant.

For most of these guys any perception of Merit is almost meaningless to their outcomes and just as likely unknown. As long as the job is done properly there is no assignment or differentiation based on merit at all in most cases.



this is true , to some extent , in the city , where nad tradesmen can hide to some extent.

but in a smaller country town, if you dont have merit, you are screwed.

in a small country town, if there are 3 plumbers and 3 electricians, you better make sure you arent a chode delivering poor quality service.

the market blowtorch will force you to perform .

this is true capitalism and it is awesome


Just so - otherwise known as a monopoly.

Ah, the "narrow road". The leftards should bow down before the Westinghouse and weep tears of pure gratitude, no?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 111217
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #276 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:02pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 6:39pm:
Jasin wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Jasin wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:29pm:
They are saying "Head of State" now.
Few years back and again more so - they were saying "President as Head of State".


Yes, because people are basically stupid and when they hear the word 'President' they immediately think our republic will be the same as the US.

It won't, so they're avoiding the use of the term 'President' so as not to confuse the average Australian ignorant of political matters.

I'm glad they took my advice on this matter.


Crap on.
The Celebrities and their A.R.M rubbish are basically American Media nobs. Everyone knows their desire for a Republic is to undermine anything British here with nothing but an Irish cliche to work on as a Republic. The 'American' influence is overwelmingly obvious, ...


So obvious, in fact, that they never use the term 'President' for HOS anywhere on their website.

https://republic.org.au/

Dear oh dear   Roll Eyes


Page 66 here:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5b531a35b98a78268300cad6/t/624372e0f12eeb...


Back to top
 

Republic_ideas.jpg (180 KB | 8 )
Republic_ideas.jpg
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 51167
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #277 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:08pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 2:17pm:
this is true , to some extent , in the city , where nad tradesmen can hide to some extent.

but in a smaller country town, if you dont have merit, you are screwed.

in a small country town, if there are 3 plumbers and 3 electricians, you better make sure you arent a chode delivering poor quality service.

the market blowtorch will force you to perform .

this is true capitalism and it is awesome

Indeed.

Welfare allocation should also be brought back to that scale - let your local peers determine the support you get.  Unprecedented thriving would ensue.

Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
John Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 76906
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #278 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:27pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:50pm:
FD, fix up this shite software - I can't reply to something that was posted 4 or 5 posts ago.


Is this your doing?? It is not happening on every board.






people have been complaining about this for years. He's even been given alternatives to this software that he might use to try and help him. FD just doesn't care.
Back to top
 

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 59957
Here
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #279 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:37pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Jasin wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:29pm:
They are saying "Head of State" now.
Few years back and again more so - they were saying "President as Head of State".


Yes, because people are basically stupid and when they hear the word 'President' they immediately think our republic will be the same as the US.

It won't, so they're avoiding the use of the term 'President' so as not to confuse the average Australian ignorant of political matters.

I'm glad they took my advice on this matter.



They are not going to call the Head of State the "Head of State" or "The Great Gazoo" 90% it will be hello Mr President.

The Great Gazoo - In Australia terms maybe "the Average Gazoo".


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 59957
Here
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #280 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:38pm
 
John Smith wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:27pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:50pm:
FD, fix up this shite software - I can't reply to something that was posted 4 or 5 posts ago.


Is this your doing?? It is not happening on every board.






people have been complaining about this for years. He's even been given alternatives to this software that he might use to try and help him. FD just doesn't care.


It does make things interesting.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 76906
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #281 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:43pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:37pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Jasin wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:29pm:
They are saying "Head of State" now.
Few years back and again more so - they were saying "President as Head of State".


Yes, because people are basically stupid and when they hear the word 'President' they immediately think our republic will be the same as the US.

It won't, so they're avoiding the use of the term 'President' so as not to confuse the average Australian ignorant of political matters.

I'm glad they took my advice on this matter.



They are not going to call the Head of State the "Head of State" or "The Great Gazoo" 90% it will be hello Mr President.

The Great Gazoo - In Australia terms maybe "the Average Gazoo".





They should just call him 'The Godfather'


https://i.giphy.com/media/3o7btOHBo4Be8Io9IQ/giphy.webp
Back to top
 

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 59957
Here
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #282 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:43pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:51pm:
FD, fix up this shite software - I can't reply to something that was posted 4 or 5 posts ago.


Is this your doing?? It is not happening on every board.


You already said that - said that - said that.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 76906
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #283 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:44pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:38pm:
John Smith wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:27pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:50pm:
FD, fix up this shite software - I can't reply to something that was posted 4 or 5 posts ago.


Is this your doing?? It is not happening on every board.






people have been complaining about this for years. He's even been given alternatives to this software that he might use to try and help him. FD just doesn't care.


It does make things interesting.



it stifles conversation and discourages participation
Back to top
 

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 143553
Gender: male
Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #284 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:44pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:02pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 6:39pm:
Jasin wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:46pm:
Jasin wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 5:29pm:
They are saying "Head of State" now.
Few years back and again more so - they were saying "President as Head of State".


Yes, because people are basically stupid and when they hear the word 'President' they immediately think our republic will be the same as the US.

It won't, so they're avoiding the use of the term 'President' so as not to confuse the average Australian ignorant of political matters.

I'm glad they took my advice on this matter.


Crap on.
The Celebrities and their A.R.M rubbish are basically American Media nobs. Everyone knows their desire for a Republic is to undermine anything British here with nothing but an Irish cliche to work on as a Republic. The 'American' influence is overwelmingly obvious, ...


So obvious, in fact, that they never use the term 'President' for HOS anywhere on their website.

https://republic.org.au/

Dear oh dear   Roll Eyes


Page 66 here:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5b531a35b98a78268300cad6/t/624372e0f12eeb...



Thanks Bobby.

However, there's no page 66.  It's only 62 pages long.

It does say this though:

"Note also that several sections of the current Constitution (ss 17, 18, 19, 21, 23) include the term 'President'.
These refer specifically to the office of the President of the Senate, and should not be confused with any
proposal for the title 'President' for a republican Head of State
(as found in the 1999 Constitution (Establishment
of Republic) Bill), nor pre-empt any future decision about the title."



Back to top
« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:53pm by greggerypeccary »  
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 ... 27
Send Topic Print