Australian Politics Forum - Time for a republic.

aquascoot

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #255 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:17pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:39pm:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:23am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 6:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

Quote:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us

I see this as the worst reason available but the one that everyone rolls out without anything reasoned to support it.

For a start I would say that the exact opposite is true.

I don't see us as a small snivelling people frightened by our own shadow crying about perceptions that nobody really believes or cares about.

So you believe in privilege by birth not merit?

Merit is the system with the least merit. Mostly merit is translated to someone I like better. A correct identification on merit is extremely rare and in many cases non existent.

certainly in many chode professions, this is true.
academia, the public service, social work, the disability sector, aged care, teaching, robotic jobs working for a boss....its almost impossible to sort out merit.

in the trades, mechanics, electricians, plant operators, fencers, accountants, neurosurgeons, dentists, cattle raising, cropping, SAS pre selection, sports

in these areas, you can establish a reputation,
the market can judge you
you open yourself up to the criticiasm of the market
you rise or fail according to your merit.

comservative professions, athletic prowess, business ...these areas allow the superior man to shine.

the inferior man will become a cog in the mattrix for the very reason that he does not have grit guts and self beleif.

if you are a chode, the idea of working a lame ass job and then whining about trump and hating on successful sportsmen and business people has appeal.
it stops you reflecting on your own cowardice and laziness

So in short you are saying that Merit would not be a meaningful metric to help chose a President.

A little of what you said I would partially agree with.

I give an example: Sports is an obvious positive where the cream rises to the top but it is still potentially corrupt and strongly influenced by personal preference and friendships.

Look at selections for the NSW State of Origin team over the decades. There has been a consistent bais towards certain players from certain clubs. Not so much with the current administration over last few years but still a thumb on the scales.

Quote:

you open yourself up to the criticiasm of the market

Mr 20% below average electrician puts an add in the paper and will get more customers then he / she can handle as will Mr 90% above average accountant.

For most of these guys any perception of Merit is almost meaningless to their outcomes and just as likely unknown. As long as the job is done properly there is no assignment or differentiation based on merit at all in most cases.

this is true , to some extent , in the city , where nad tradesmen can hide to some extent.

but in a smaller country town, if you dont have merit, you are screwed.

in a small country town, if there are 3 plumbers and 3 electricians, you better make sure you arent a chode delivering poor quality service.

the market blowtorch will force you to perform .

this is true capitalism and it is awesome

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Dnarever

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #256 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:24pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:57am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

We want the President with real balls...

No, we don't. A standoff between HOS and HOG is the last thing any nation needs.

No No - It is a President physically endowed with Testes. There is no stand off unless someone tries to crush them.

My eyes just watered at the thought its something a PM would never do.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #257 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:28pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

We want the President with real balls...

I wish people would stop using the term 'President'.

All we need to do is ditch the monarchy and rename the GG 'Head of State'.

Or keep the name Governor General, whatever.

But we don't have to use the term 'President' - that just confuses people.

I like your view on not using the word President but the reality is that is most likely or almost certain to be the result no matter how much we would prefer different.

It really is crazy.

We can call our HOS anything we like - Grand Poobah, Head Honcho, Supreme Leader, whatever.

(Using Head of State is by far the most sensible)

The term 'President' puts people off, because they immediately think of the US.

I guarantee if they didn't use that word, more Australians would be onboard.

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Dnarever

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #258 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:32pm

aquascoot wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:17pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:39pm:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:23am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 6:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

Quote:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us

I see this as the worst reason available but the one that everyone rolls out without anything reasoned to support it.

For a start I would say that the exact opposite is true.

I don't see us as a small snivelling people frightened by our own shadow crying about perceptions that nobody really believes or cares about.

So you believe in privilege by birth not merit?

Merit is the system with the least merit. Mostly merit is translated to someone I like better. A correct identification on merit is extremely rare and in many cases non existent.

certainly in many chode professions, this is true.
academia, the public service, social work, the disability sector, aged care, teaching, robotic jobs working for a boss....its almost impossible to sort out merit.

in the trades, mechanics, electricians, plant operators, fencers, accountants, neurosurgeons, dentists, cattle raising, cropping, SAS pre selection, sports

in these areas, you can establish a reputation,
the market can judge you
you open yourself up to the criticiasm of the market
you rise or fail according to your merit.

comservative professions, athletic prowess, business ...these areas allow the superior man to shine.

the inferior man will become a cog in the mattrix for the very reason that he does not have grit guts and self beleif.

if you are a chode, the idea of working a lame ass job and then whining about trump and hating on successful sportsmen and business people has appeal.
it stops you reflecting on your own cowardice and laziness

So in short you are saying that Merit would not be a meaningful metric to help chose a President.

A little of what you said I would partially agree with.

I give an example: Sports is an obvious positive where the cream rises to the top but it is still potentially corrupt and strongly influenced by personal preference and friendships.

Look at selections for the NSW State of Origin team over the decades. There has been a consistent bais towards certain players from certain clubs. Not so much with the current administration over last few years but still a thumb on the scales.

Quote:

you open yourself up to the criticiasm of the market

Mr 20% below average electrician puts an add in the paper and will get more customers then he / she can handle as will Mr 90% above average accountant.

For most of these guys any perception of Merit is almost meaningless to their outcomes and just as likely unknown. As long as the job is done properly there is no assignment or differentiation based on merit at all in most cases.

this is true , to some extent , in the city , where nad tradesmen can hide to some extent.

but in a smaller country town, if you dont have merit, you are screwed.

in a small country town, if there are 3 plumbers and 3 electricians, you better make sure you arent a chode delivering poor quality service.

the market blowtorch will force you to perform .

this is true capitalism and it is awesome

OH so we can only select our President from tradesmen from small country towns - Got it.

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« Last Edit: Sep 14^th, 2022 at 7:41pm by Dnarever »

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Dnarever

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #259 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:35pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:28pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

We want the President with real balls...

I wish people would stop using the term 'President'.

All we need to do is ditch the monarchy and rename the GG 'Head of State'.

Or keep the name Governor General, whatever.

But we don't have to use the term 'President' - that just confuses people.

I like your view on not using the word President but the reality is that is most likely or almost certain to be the result no matter how much we would prefer different.

It really is crazy.

We can call our HOS anything we like - Grand Poobah, Head Honcho, Supreme Leader, whatever.

(Using Head of State is by far the most sensible)

The term 'President' puts people off, because they immediately think of the US.

I guarantee if they didn't use that word, more Australians would be onboard.

Yes I agree I like the Grand Poobah myself or even the Great Gazoo but the fact remains that this isn't what we are going to do we will have a President and yes it will irk me.

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chimera

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #260 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:55pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

We want the President with real balls...

Russia has given Vladimir some training in copulating a country with vigorous outbursts and seminal urging. Why settle for second best with Question Time ands Senate Reviews? Putin Power for Strength, Lock-Ups and Police.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #261 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 3:00pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:35pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:28pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

We want the President with real balls...

I wish people would stop using the term 'President'.

All we need to do is ditch the monarchy and rename the GG 'Head of State'.

Or keep the name Governor General, whatever.

But we don't have to use the term 'President' - that just confuses people.

I like your view on not using the word President but the reality is that is most likely or almost certain to be the result no matter how much we would prefer different.

It really is crazy.

We can call our HOS anything we like - Grand Poobah, Head Honcho, Supreme Leader, whatever.

(Using Head of State is by far the most sensible)

The term 'President' puts people off, because they immediately think of the US.

I guarantee if they didn't use that word, more Australians would be onboard.

Yes I agree I like the Grand Poobah myself or even the Great Gazoo but the fact remains that this isn't what we are going to do we will have a President and yes it will irk me.

It's good to see the Australian Republic Movement has taken my advice.

They never use the word 'President' - it's always 'Head of State'.

https://republic.org.au/

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Dnarever

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #262 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 4:09pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 3:00pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:35pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:28pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

We want the President with real balls...

I wish people would stop using the term 'President'.

All we need to do is ditch the monarchy and rename the GG 'Head of State'.

Or keep the name Governor General, whatever.

But we don't have to use the term 'President' - that just confuses people.

I like your view on not using the word President but the reality is that is most likely or almost certain to be the result no matter how much we would prefer different.

It really is crazy.

We can call our HOS anything we like - Grand Poobah, Head Honcho, Supreme Leader, whatever.

(Using Head of State is by far the most sensible)

The term 'President' puts people off, because they immediately think of the US.

I guarantee if they didn't use that word, more Australians would be onboard.

Yes I agree I like the Grand Poobah myself or even the Great Gazoo but the fact remains that this isn't what we are going to do we will have a President and yes it will irk me.

It's good to see the Australian Republic Movement has taken my advice.

They never use the word 'President' - it's always 'Head of State'.

https://republic.org.au/

I did notice that when I read their platform but not sure if it is reassuring or devious.

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Frank

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #263 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 4:27pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:39pm:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:23am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 6:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

Quote:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us

I see this as the worst reason available but the one that everyone rolls out without anything reasoned to support it.

For a start I would say that the exact opposite is true.

I don't see us as a small snivelling people frightened by our own shadow crying about perceptions that nobody really believes or cares about.

So you believe in privilege by birth not merit?

Merit is the system with the least merit. Mostly merit is translated to someone I like better. A correct identification on merit is extremely rare and in many cases non existent.

certainly in many chode professions, this is true.
academia, the public service, social work, the disability sector, aged care, teaching, robotic jobs working for a boss....its almost impossible to sort out merit.

in the trades, mechanics, electricians, plant operators, fencers, accountants, neurosurgeons, dentists, cattle raising, cropping, SAS pre selection, sports

in these areas, you can establish a reputation,
the market can judge you
you open yourself up to the criticiasm of the market
you rise or fail according to your merit.

comservative professions, athletic prowess, business ...these areas allow the superior man to shine.

the inferior man will become a cog in the mattrix for the very reason that he does not have grit guts and self beleif.

if you are a chode, the idea of working a lame ass job and then whining about trump and hating on successful sportsmen and business people has appeal.
it stops you reflecting on your own cowardice and laziness

So in short you are saying that

You are channelling Cathy Newman's method, ducky, when she interviewed Petersen: "So you are saying..."

"No, I am not saying that", responded Petersen.

And the long day wore on.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Dnarever

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #264 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:24pm

Frank wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 4:27pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:39pm:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:23am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 6:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

Quote:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us

I see this as the worst reason available but the one that everyone rolls out without anything reasoned to support it.

For a start I would say that the exact opposite is true.

I don't see us as a small snivelling people frightened by our own shadow crying about perceptions that nobody really believes or cares about.

So you believe in privilege by birth not merit?

Merit is the system with the least merit. Mostly merit is translated to someone I like better. A correct identification on merit is extremely rare and in many cases non existent.

certainly in many chode professions, this is true.
academia, the public service, social work, the disability sector, aged care, teaching, robotic jobs working for a boss....its almost impossible to sort out merit.

in the trades, mechanics, electricians, plant operators, fencers, accountants, neurosurgeons, dentists, cattle raising, cropping, SAS pre selection, sports

in these areas, you can establish a reputation,
the market can judge you
you open yourself up to the criticiasm of the market
you rise or fail according to your merit.

comservative professions, athletic prowess, business ...these areas allow the superior man to shine.

the inferior man will become a cog in the mattrix for the very reason that he does not have grit guts and self beleif.

if you are a chode, the idea of working a lame ass job and then whining about trump and hating on successful sportsmen and business people has appeal.
it stops you reflecting on your own cowardice and laziness

So in short you are saying that

You are channelling Cathy Newman's method, ducky, when she interviewed Petersen: "So you are saying..."

"No, I am not saying that", responded Petersen.

And the long day wore on.

I didn't mean to infer that you understood what was said.

It was said that we use merit to select a The Grand PooBah.

Then he listed the limited range of people where merit selection may apply.

The assumption is that we would be selecting your Great Gazoo by merit from the group of people where merit would apply ?

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« Last Edit: Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:31pm by Dnarever »

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Jasin

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #265 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:29pm

They are saying "Head of State" now.
Few years back and again more so - they were saying "President as Head of State".

Republicans are just Media-Celebrity wackos who just want to exploit politics for their own selfish agendas.

But hey, we know the Media (of Oceania) is doing to N.America, S.America and Australia.
What Religion (Mid-East) did to Asia, Europe and Africa.
Two wrongs not making a right here folks.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #266 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:46pm

Jasin wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:29pm:

They are saying "Head of State" now.
Few years back and again more so - they were saying "President as Head of State".

Yes, because people are basically stupid and when they hear the word 'President' they immediately think our republic will be the same as the US.

It won't, so they're avoiding the use of the term 'President' so as not to confuse the average Australian ignorant of political matters.

I'm glad they took my advice on this matter.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 51444 Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #267 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:50pm FD, fix up this shite software - I can't reply to something that was posted 4 or 5 posts ago. Is this your doing?? It is not happening on every board.
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 51444 Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #268 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:50pm FD, fix up this shite software - I can't reply to something that was posted 4 or 5 posts ago. Is this your doing?? It is not happening on every board.
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 51444 Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #269 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:50pm FD, fix up this shite software - I can't reply to something that was posted 4 or 5 posts ago. Is this your doing?? It is not happening on every board.
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Poll
Question: Do you want royalty banished from our political system?
* This poll has now closed *
Yes 15 (48.4%) No 16 (51.6%) Total votes: 31 « Created by: Bobby. on: Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:03pm »