Australian Politics Forum - Time for a republic.

Frank

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #195 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:20pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:53pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:04am:

But FD said "no-one is falling for it"

Half the country wants to stick with the current system.
The other half doesn't like any of the proposed alternatives.

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is
no basis for a system of government.
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses,
not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

That is soo stupid, Bobby, that I am guessing you are knowingly unserious.

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Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Frank

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #196 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:26pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:15pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 5:47pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 10:15am:

Ladies -
if you meet King Charles you'll have to curtsy.
I'm afraid to say - the law is the law.

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/115/405/630/original/654f4b...

As a Christian I will only bow the knee to the King of Kings whose name is Jesus Christ.

Commoners share sovereignty with the monarch and so bow. It is the aristocracy that must kneel.

Cute but wrong

https://www.royal.uk/greeting-member-royal-family#:~:text=There%20are%20no%20obl...

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Dnarever

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #197 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:27pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 10:43am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 10:22am:

I think we need a compelling logical case for change not a justification for not changing.

We need to see a solid workable model that people would be willing to support.

Note: what we have is one of the most reliable robust most successful systems on the planet. We are for instance far superior to the republic of the USA (just look at their current mess), We are better than any Banana republic, better than any dictatorial republic. We are at worst on par with the very best world systems. If we change why would it need to be to a republic model which have proven a real mixed bag clearly with more failure stories than successes.

We need to see some form of cost justification. What is the bang for Bucks in all this. Most of the past discussion seems to conclude that we spend a shite load of money and if we are real lucky we don't lose too much.

We need to see critical role functions, expected improvement analysis and control mechanisms.

When changing from something which is very very good the risk is that you have a lot more to lose than gain.

But my opening post gave one example of the system not working -
care to comment?

Quote:

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

Quote:

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.

Many PM's have help other portfolios it isn't unusual while this one seems to be strange.

I don't see how becoming a republic would change anything in this regard. Whatever happened was irregular but nothing to say that it would be fixed in any republican model.

The GG losing his job by the PM is not very likely till his term ends. The GG is not answerable to the PM. That isn't how it works, it is not likely that this was the reason. The GG will swear any minister to any portfolio that they are properly assigned too by the PM.

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Bobby.

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #198 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:43pm

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:20pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:53pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:04am:

But FD said "no-one is falling for it"

Half the country wants to stick with the current system.
The other half doesn't like any of the proposed alternatives.

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is
no basis for a system of government.
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses,
not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

That is soo stupid, Bobby, that I am guessing you are knowingly unserious.

Monty Python had a way of getting to the truth with satirical comedy.

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Bobby.

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #199 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:45pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 10:43am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 10:22am:

I think we need a compelling logical case for change not a justification for not changing.

We need to see a solid workable model that people would be willing to support.

Note: what we have is one of the most reliable robust most successful systems on the planet. We are for instance far superior to the republic of the USA (just look at their current mess), We are better than any Banana republic, better than any dictatorial republic. We are at worst on par with the very best world systems. If we change why would it need to be to a republic model which have proven a real mixed bag clearly with more failure stories than successes.

We need to see some form of cost justification. What is the bang for Bucks in all this. Most of the past discussion seems to conclude that we spend a shite load of money and if we are real lucky we don't lose too much.

We need to see critical role functions, expected improvement analysis and control mechanisms.

When changing from something which is very very good the risk is that you have a lot more to lose than gain.

But my opening post gave one example of the system not working -
care to comment?

Quote:

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

Quote:

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.

Many PM's have help other portfolios it isn't unusual while this one seems to be strange.

I don't see how becoming a republic would change anything in this regard. Whatever happened was irregular but nothing to say that it would be fixed in any republican model.

The GG losing his job by the PM is not very likely till his term ends. The GG is not answerable to the PM. That isn't how it works, it is not likely that this was the reason. The GG will swear any minister to any portfolio that they are properly assigned to by the PM.

The GG could have said -
"yes but not in the middle of the night in secret
even from ministers who I already gave the same portfolios to"

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John Smith

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Re: The British Bullshitarchy
Reply #200 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:47pm

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:54am:

There is 12 pages of people explaining the case Lisa. It boils down to absence of a case for change. Even with Bobby's attempt to frame the question as favourably as possible for a republic, no-one is falling for it.

only if your head is still up your arse can you argue there is an absence of a case for change.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 77052 Gender:	Re: The British Bullshitarchy Reply #201 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:50pm Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:54am: What is an Australian? Waleed Aly
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freediver

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At my desk.

Re: The British Bullshitarchy
Reply #202 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:03pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:47pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:54am:

There is 12 pages of people explaining the case Lisa. It boils down to absence of a case for change. Even with Bobby's attempt to frame the question as favourably as possible for a republic, no-one is falling for it.

only if your head is still up your arse can you argue there is an absence of a case for change.

Just whining about being a monarchy is not making a case for change. If you cannot propose a better alternative, then you cannot even begin to make the case for change.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 52750 Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #203 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:06pm Republicans are talking out of their arse. Which means they are talking out of the 'Mafia' Media, more than 'politics' itself. Sounds more like Media celebrities wanting to exploit politics to give them more 'legal' empowerment (for the Media) under a rouse called 'Republic'.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #204 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:11pm Flip
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #205 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:11pm Flip
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John Smith

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Re: The British Bullshitarchy
Reply #206 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:13pm

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:03pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:47pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 7:54am:

There is 12 pages of people explaining the case Lisa. It boils down to absence of a case for change. Even with Bobby's attempt to frame the question as favourably as possible for a republic, no-one is falling for it.

only if your head is still up your arse can you argue there is an absence of a case for change.

Just whining about being a monarchy is not making a case for change. If you cannot propose a better alternative, then you cannot even begin to make the case for change.

admit it Fd, the case for change that was outlined is beyond you.

And no matter how much you pretend, one does not need to provide a 'better alternative' to make a case for change. A case for change is the reason for doing so ... not the how.

now be a good boy and pop that head back up there

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #207 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:32pm

I posted this a few days ago. 👇

There are lots of Gen X (onwards) Conservatives in Australia who are sick of the chronic hypocrisy perpetually on show by this dysfunctional inbred family. Times have changed, people are more educated ie they have a fair grasp of history and politics and can see through the BS.

The sooner Australia becomes a Republic the better. And it WILL be better! Change the flag too while you're at it! It's high time for Australia to reflect its Australian essence. Not that of England's!

Is it any wonder we've had so much trouble in the area of reconciliation with Aboriginal and other indigenous groups? We must move forward together - otherwise we CANNOT move forward at all!

And no more excuses re what type of Republican model either! We're Australians! That means we're smart! We've proven ourselves many times since Federation!

If you think sitting around in the cobwebs of an antiquated former colonial power's traditions is going to help Australia move forward (after some 235 years) then you're dreaming!

Australia has changed and is still changing! As I type! It's time to refresh our national profile and international identity to reflect our truth as a people who are ONE ... but also MANY!

Which reminds me ...refresh and renew the National Anthem while you're at it!

In fact .. THIS is our chance to renew our commitment to each other as representatives within a unified Australian cultural identity.

Seriously let's do this! It's overdue!

____________________________________

Why did you not all jump in and agree with me?

Is it because some of you still think of yourselves as Australian but of British ancestry? Is there a link there in how you identify that I've not understood?

It's easy for me to argue FOR a Republic as I'm Australian but I'm also a full blooded Mediterranean woman so I have no British ancestry whatsoever.

Perhaps blood is thicker than water.

How else am I to understand why 50% of those who participated in the OzPol poll still think we ought to maintain the status quo?

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #208 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:33pm Flip
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #209 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 8:33pm Dear God what is wrong with this topic ....
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Poll
Question: Do you want royalty banished from our political system?
* This poll has now closed *
Yes 15 (48.4%) No 16 (51.6%) Total votes: 31 « Created by: Bobby. on: Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:03pm »